New to FP, seeking advice/insight.

[spencer]

Hello all. I'm so glad to have found this forum, as I feel like I could really use some advice before getting my first FP.

 

I haven't written with a FP before, but have recently made up my mind to give it a go. From what I've read, it seems like my experience would be better if I invest in a better quality pen to begin with, but I'm not comfortable spending much more than $100 to maybe $125 total for pen, ink, whatever.

 

My writing is fair, but small, and I typically print, rather than do cursive.

 

After my initial looking through various websites, two likely choices seem to be the Pelikan M215, and the Namiki VP. Pros and cons I see: VP is finer tip, supposedly very smooth, with gold tip. The finer line probably will make it a more natural fit with my current writing style. The Pelikan is much more attractive to me in terms of styling, has better reputation for filling, and by all means seems to be a reasonable first pen.

 

My questions/concerns:

 

I saw on a couple of websites that you can purchase additional nibs for the VP, which seemed like a good option, since I may want to try different nib sizes, being new and not really knowing my preference. Are nibs also available for the 215? The 215 was only listed with a medium or broad nib on the site I visited with it, which did not seem ideal to me.

 

How likely am I to mess up my first pen? If it dries out, or something happens, is it fairly likely that I can clean it out or is that nib just done, at that point?

 

Is printing feasible with the fountain pen? Smallish printing, as opposed to large italic.

 

The nib in the VP is 14k gold, while the 215 is steel. How much does this matter? Am I really going to notice this?

 

Finally, does anyone have comments on either of these pens, or others that you might add to be considered? Anything I'm failing to consider, or should pay closer attention to?

 

Thanks for the help. I've admired pens for some time, but with my only resource being the net, it is hard to get a good idea on what I'm selecting, so the more feedback, the better!

 

Spencer

[InfernalNeutrino]

I'll let the resident experts answer most of the technical questions since I'm a newbie myself, but printing with a FP has presented no problems to me and I print rather small. In point of fact, I switched from using a medium nib to an extra fine for most of my work because I prefer to write smaller text. Most of my writing is either class notes or mathematical stuff, and I still write faster printing so that's what I go with. Cheers!

[TMann]

Hello and welcome to the site!

 

You're in luck in that BOTH of the pens that you are interested in are smooth and reliable writers, and it is easy to swap out nibs on both pens. (This isn't the case for many fountain pens.) The Pelikan, as you mentioned, is much more traditional in it's styling. It is a piston-filler, so it holds a lot of ink. The nibs screw out, and can be purchased in a variety of different styles and sizes, from extra-fine to double-broad. If you're a small writer, than a fine nib would definitely be better for your writing style.

 

The Vanishing Point is a very unique design among fountain pens. The clicking mechanism is VERY convenient, and people who use these pens love their convenience. The nibs are also very good performers, though they tend to run a bit narrower than the Pelikans. (Medium is closer to a fine, and a fine is closer to an extra-fine.) The one caveat of the Vanishing Points is that the "upside-down" design means that the clip of the pens sits between your thumb and index finger when you're writing. Some people hate this; others find it to be very comfortable. You'll have to try it to find out.

 

In answer to your other questions, fountain pens are indeed a bit different from ballpoints and rollerballs, and require some different techniques to keep working properly. But once you've learned a few things about them, they're very easy to maintain. Cleaning out out a nib with tap water is very easy; occassionally a bit of dishsoap, or ammonia will be required but this isn't usually necessary.

 

As far as the difference between gold and steel nibs, you'll get a variety of answers on this one! Many steel nibs, such as the ones that come with the Pelikan are VERY well made and very smooth writers. Gold nibs may have a bit more flexibilty than a steel nib, but not always. In any case, I wouldn't spend a lot of time worrying about it at this moment.

 

Ultimately my advice would be to just pick one of the two pens that you've mentioned and buy it! Spend some time getting to know how it works and getting used to the "fountain pen feel." If you're like most of us, you'll quickly come to enjoy the writing experience, and want to try out different models of pens, and different styles of nibs, (fine, medium, italic, broad, etc.)

 

Good luck with your choice! Let us know what you end up getting.

 

TMann

Edited December 31, 2005 by TMann

[OldGriz]

Allow me to add my somewhat limited experiance..

I have had a VP for a couple of months now and absolutely love it..

I do not write with a small hand and find the medium nib good for me... if you write small the fine nib might be a better choice...

As for purchasing a VP IMHO the only choice is Pam at Ocar Braun Pens. I believe I paid about $75 for the pen and an additional $14.00 for a broad nib...

 

I have written with a friend's Pelikan 200 and just ordered one from Richard at Richard's Pens. Again you are not going to find a better place to purchase your pen... whether a 200, 250 or 215. Richard also sells these pens with his custom ground and tested nibs for an extremely reasonable price... I bought a 200 with a .7 cursive italic.. it should be here next week.... Cost w/shipping about $95.00, less if you do not get one of his custom nibs...

 

Pros and Cons.. The Pelikan holds a load of ink and will write forever between fillings.... The VP convertors do not hold much ink and IMO are a PIA to fill.

The Pelikan is a conventional pen and feels so in your hand. The 215 is a bit heavier than the 200 due to the metal barrel. I like a slightly lighter pen for long writing periods and picked the 200.. Richard also happened to have it in the old style Burgundy color that I thought looked real classy and elegant..

The VP had the clip over the top of the nib area and unless you hold the pen in a fairly conventional manner with your fingers on the sides of the clip it can be uncomfortable...

 

As for nibs... I am not getting into that arguement... I have both gold and steel nibs.. if the nib if properly made and tuned it will write beautifully.

[Bill D]

I have both the 215 and the VP and love them both If I had to pick one over the other, I don't know if I could. (Well, except that the VP was a gift from my lovely wife.)

 

You can use nibs for the 200 and 250 series Pelikans in a 215, so you have many options available. See Richard Binder's site for more information Pelikan Nibs . Mr. Binder is a regular on the Fountain Pen Network, although he may be a little preoccupied with a new granddaughter at the moment

 

It's hard to go wrong with either pen (unless the VP's clip interferes with the way you hold the pen).

[John Cullen]

HI, Welcome to the forum. The good news is that you have a found a friendly and knowledgable place to get feedback, information and pictures. The bad news, and it really is not bad news, is that fountain pen use is a very personal thing.

 

Some people love a nib that is silky smooth on the paper, whereas some people like a nib that is smooth but lets the user "feel" the paper as he or she writes. Now, you are saying to yourself, "Well, heck. Isn't smooth smooth?" Nope. Everyone likes a smooth nib but there are different degrees of smoothness.

 

Some companies are really customer friendly and will let you exchange your new pen for a different nib for a nominal fee. Others charge a lot to change new nibs.

 

My point is not to put you off from using a FP but to let you know that you may need to try a few out before you find the one you really like best. ALso, the more expensive pen is not always the best. Again, tips from users will help you decide.

 

I think a good starter pen is the Waterman Phileas. Since you write small, get a Fine point. Try Swisherpen.com. The pen writes smoothly and uses either ink-filled cartridges which just plug in or a plastic tube with a piston inside, called a piston converter, which plugs in and then allows you to suck up either ink from a bottle or water from a glass to clean out the pen. You might love the Phileas. You might sell it off down the road. Who knows.

 

BTW, if your pen dries out you can use the piston converter to flush it with cool water and dissolve the ink, as long as the dried ink has not sat there for a month or two, though even then most inks will dissolve. If you know you will not use the pen for a few weeks, just clean it by flushing it with water. It takes about five minutes to unscrew the black nib unit, which you do by holding the plastic rather than the gold-colored nib, plug in the converter, and then flush with cool water.

 

Cool water only. If you must add something to help you along, use either ONE drop of nonscented dish liquid OR ONE drop of nonsudsing amonia. Usually water will do the trick. YOu just run the piston up and down ten or fifteen times in clean water and eventually all the ink dissolves and runs out.

 

NEVER PUT INDIA INK IN A PEN.

 

The people here are friendly and you can ask any question you want. So I suggest you ask away and realize that sometimes there are various opinions on some questions.

 

You will soon be addicted. The sign of addiction is when you sit at your desk fiddling with your pen or looking at pen catalogues....or both. Enjoy jc

[jsparks]

I have a vanishing point and a Pelikan M200 (same size as the 215, but all plastic so it is a lighter pen which I prefer).

 

Although I really like the vanishing point, it's great for intermittant note taking as the click action allows for very quick "uncapping" (note that most fountain pens dry out fairly quickly if left uncapped for more than a minute or so between uses), I don't find it a particularly comfortable pen to use for writing several pages at one sitting. It's not the clip, but the shape of the pen where my fingers grip it. Maybe it is just a little to fat and doesn't taper the way I would like. It seems to work well for many people, but not everyone. I wouldn't want a vanishing point to be my only pen.

 

The Pelikan is a much more comfortable pen to me. I personally would prefer a Pelikan as an only pen unless my main use of the pen was taking notes.

 

If I were just starting out and wanted to give fountain pens a try, I'd buy several different cheaper pens rather than one expensive pen. That way you can try more things and find out for yourself what you prefer.

 

If you really want to try a Vanishing Point, get one from Pam at http://www.oscarbraunpens.com/ (I think she has them for less than $75) and then get something more traditional like a Waterman Philias ($25-35). You could almost get both a VP and a Pelikan M200 ($50) and a bottle of ink from Pam and stay in your budget. Or maybe get a Pelikan M200 and a Philias or Lamy Safari ($25 + $5 for a converter) and a nice fat Wality 52 ($10-20).

 

Since you write small, I would recommend sticking with fine point pens (except maybe the VP since these nibs run small, the VP medium is slightly wider than the Pelikan fine, but the VP fine is so fine that it isn't as smooth to write with and probably isn't the best place to start, but extra nibs for the VP are only about $15 so you could try both fine and medium). I write fairly small and prefer fine points. Medium points (other than the VP) tend to make my writing harder to read and extra fine points will be scratcher and maybe problematic until you train your hand to stop writting with pressure as I'm sure you are used to with a ballpoint.

 

For ink, I would recommend a bottle of Waterman ink as a good starter ink. I think they have nice colors and few problems. Some inks can have flow problems in some pens and many inks bleed through thin papers and some otherwise good inks (like Pelikan blue) are so pale that they can be hard to read. Waterman inks I've tried flow well and have minimal bleeding or other problems.

 

John

[pvdiamon]

I have a VP, and got the additional fine point nib from Pam. Everyone talks about the M nib writing like a fine, but I find it still rather braod. It writes exceptionally smooth, but for someone who writes small, I can't use it in many places (like hospital notes). The FP is like an extra fine, and a little scratchy. It is the finest point nib I've found yet (my Aurora Ipsilon Extra Fine writes inbetween this and the VP M nib, and my Hero fine is similar to the Aurora). I love the fine point on the VP for writing in check books, or quick notes as someone noted. But as a general use pen, I can't use it as the nibs are either too fine, or too broad!

 

I have learning about pens for about a year now, and this board has been wonderful. I have several pens, but my best writing pen may well be my Sensa Meridian. This is a relatively inexpensive pen, steel nib, but with a fine point, writes very well, and very reliably. It is unfortunately a rather thick pen and kind of heavy in the pocket. But as you'll see on this board, those few who have this pen (it isn't very popular), it is well loved.

[acfrery]

Hi,

 

Welcome to the addiction!

 

I have both a VP and a M200. I like them both, but I think the latter is better for starting. There is an interesting variety of nibs, either gold or gold-plated, for it: check Pendemonium (superb service and products) and John Mottishaw's Nibs (never purchased anything from him, but a good friend of mine worships his work). So a single M200 can be as many as you want.

 

Regarding inks, I would suggest Noodler's Blue Black. It is great, distinctive and not too eye catching. Later you may want to consider going black or rainbow, or both!

 

Let us know your decision and impressions!

[spencer]

Hello all! After much debate, I settled on the Pelikan M215. Just got it today, and it looks and feels great. Have a question on filling it. If I read the directions correctly, I dip the tip completely in the ink, and turn the end of the pen clockwise to fill. My question is, how do I then get the end of the pen back to being flush against the rest of the pen? The directions (which are actually just 3 pictures) seem to indicate I rotate the end in the opposite direction to expel the ink, but that seems like the only way to get the end of the pen back flush with the rest of the body.

 

 

I'm sure I could figure this out trial and error, but i'd rather not expel ink all over the place as a first step.

 

Thanks for pointers.

 

Spencer

[Guest Denis Richard]

Hi Spencer,

 

dip the nib fully in ink, turn the nob anti-clockwise until it stops (it will extend slightly). Now, you have actually expelled the air and/or remaining ink from the barrel. Turn the nob back, clockwise, to its original position. Now you have filled the pen, and the nob is back in place. Take the nib out of the bottle, wipe, and you're ready to go.

 

Denis.

Edited January 13, 2006 by Denis Richard

[spencer]

Success!

 

Thanks for the tip. Was easier than I had anticipated, even.

 

Some questions from a new owner:

1. Bought a fine. Flow is very good, but actually is even finer than I anticipated. Does a pen "break in" and change its flow characteristics and such, or is it pretty much even throughout its life? I read that the angle can change, but I didn't know whether than affects the flow characteristics.

 

2. How long can I expect my ink to last? I mean, roughly speaking, if anyone has a M200 or 215, is it like, 20 pages of writing, 50, or like 10? I have no idea even ballpark of what to expect.

 

3. How should I keep the pen? Is it fine lying on its side on my desk, or is it important that I stand it upright?

 

4. How "clean" can I get the pen nib? I wiped it off after filling, and there are a couple of smears I can see, but wiping further just seemed to move them around, rather than remove them. Tips, or normal?

 

5. I hear of pens leaking or ruing clothes. What is the story, assuming I don't take it in a plane or something. Not safe to keep in my pants pocket, or it is?

 

 

First impressions:

1. Pen is excellent in terms of appearance, and heft. I would not want a lighter pen, though this is by no means heavy. Looks very classy to me.

 

2. Surprised at size. I was actually expecting it to be a little bit larger than it is. Will have to decide what I think of the size for future decisions.

 

3. Surprised at how crisp the lines are. My previous experiences had left me fearing a pen that practically bled all over the paper, hence my going with the fine. This is much more refined, and I don't feel like I need to change my writing style very much at all. Question though, do I need to keep the pen at a certain angle on the paper for best flow, etc? There doesn't seem to be any "calligraphy style" width issues. Just going to play with this and see.

 

All around, very satisfied!

 

Welcoming all comments and tips as I start out. You guys have already been a big help!

[John Cullen]

HI, you've got yourself one nice pen. I am glad you like it.

 

The flow rate should not change dramatically. Some inks flow a little faster than others and might give you a bit of a wider line than some other inks. But the flow should not change dramatically as you break the pen in. You will find that the paper you write on will matter quite a bit, regarding both the width of line and crispness of line, as well as smoothness. A cheap newspaper type paper will end up with wide bleeding lines and will likely feel a little scratchy to you.

 

I suspect most people store their pens nib up. But you should be able to leave it on a horizontal service without any real problem.

 

After you pull the nib out of the ink, don't go nuts trying to clean it off. If you do you may rub some of the gold plating off. ALso, don't use kleenex that has lotion worked into it and be careful not to wipe a lot at the tip of the nib or get fibers caught inbetween the tines. Sometimes if you catch a tad of paper or a thread of kleenex between the tines the pen suddenly writes like a magic marker. No big deal, just take your thumb and first finger and bring them together on the top and bottom of the end of the nib and pull off the thread. You will see how to do this when and if it happens.

 

Enjoy the pen. j

[Michael Wright]

Hi

 

Getting the Pelikan was a good move (though I like my VP, too). As you have noticed, the Pelikan 200 and 400 series are quite small pens. They are, however, magically the right size for people with a large range of hand sizes, though some are happier with the larger models.

 

As for line spreading: this is much more a question of the paper you use, than the pen. Some paper that's only designed for ballpoints can produce a smeared line ("feathering"), and the ink can seep through to the other side of the paper ("bleeding").

 

Nibs can be adjusted to be drier or wetter, and individual examples can vary within the same range or model. Probably best to use the present nib for a while and see how you adjust to it (it's not likely to adjust to you, though it is possible, in the first week or so, that the flow might change a little). One of the great advantages of a fountain pen is that you don't have to use much pressure when writing, but you might try varying the weight you put on the nib a bit, and see how that affects the flow. If your fine is still too fine, the most cost-effective thing to do is to get a medium steel nib for your Pelikan, and swap it in.

 

There is a difference between the steel and gold nibs for the Pelikan 200/400 series, but some people prefer the steel nibs. The gold nibs can be a bit bland.

 

You should take reasonable care of a fountain pen, but they're not temperamental. A mont or two of neglect won't do any harm. I know people who carry FPs in trousers pockets, but you need to make sure the cap is well screwed on. But you should know that most long term users of FPs have ruined at least one garment with an ink episode.

 

Have fun

 

Michael

[KCat]

my .02 on your questions - some of it repeated info from others:

 

1. A nib doesn't break in. Certainly not quickly. over many years of use by the same person there might be *some* change in nib shape, a very slight flattening. But tipping on well-made pens like Pelikans (and most of your known quality brands) will last a lifetime. Hence the fact that many of us own vintage pens that have been around for decades with no alteration to the tipping.

 

What *can* happen is that if you use more pressure than necessary, you can eventually spread the tines a little bit and the ink will probably flow a little more. But if you want to take advantage of the fact that a good nib will not require hardly any pressure (which I recommend) there are ways to adjust the flow immediately. I agree with Michael on using the pen for a while to see if you are sure you want to make such an adjustment.

 

Paper type is important to line width/bleeding/feathering but so is ink. Some inks write dry. What ink are you using? We recently had a thread here on drier inks which you may have seen. Pelikan inks (at least the ones I've tried) tend to be a bit dry writing. So you can try a different brand or color and see if that makes a difference in the line width. It has been my experience that a gold Pelikan fine is slightly fatter than a steel Pelikan fine.

 

2. I have 4 200s, 2 400s, and a 600 - all have the same ink capacity and I can't even begin to tell you how many pages they'll write. Problem being that I have too many pens and often change pens mid-snail so I haven't been able to judge this. Sounds like time for an experiment or two. these pens have pretty good capacity though and with a fine nib I would *guess* about 30 8.5 x 11 pages. That's totally random and it could be much more than that but i doubt much less. fine nibs will obviously write more pages than mediums or broads in the same pen.

 

3. I store all of my pens lying on their side. There are probably exceptions with some vintage pens that do not have capillary feeds like most modern nibs. Some people store pens tip down if the pen has a tendency to dry out. not sure this matters that much really. I've never had a pelikan dry out. By Dry out, i mean the ink in the nib dries too readily such that you have to "prime" the pen (turn the piston to push ink into the nib) whenever you start to write with it.

 

4. Normal. I would limit wiping to one or two light swipes if you must. If you do more than that, just don't use much pressure. I think this contributes to brassing of gold-plated nibs. But i'm no expert. I just know that i've never had a nib or section ring brass despite dire warnings from other uses. I'm just not that concerned about ink on the nib. I do of course, wipe the section because otherwise I'd have ink all over my hands. not a terrible thing as long as I'm not stitching.

 

5. Never had a pen leak yet. I think this is largely happens with pens that have too-large sacs, a sac with a hole, or a problem of eye-droppers. Since none of these apply to the Pel, it should never be a concern. Some twist caps can work loose and I rarely put a pen in a pants pocket except for mere moments. But the concern there is that I would forget it was there, sit down and SNAP! ouch! I wouldn't do it with a Pelikan. The 215 is probably sturdier than the 200s but still... the section is plastic. Some pens are great pocket pens but they're metal or extremely thick, sturdy plastic. Despite the high quality of the 200 series, i don't think they meet either of those requirements.

 

you've made a good choice and of course, if you decide later on it's too small or the like, you now at least have a baseline to make later decisions. Just about anyone here that's spent a few months with FPs will know what you mean if you say "i'm looking for something a little larger than a 215."

 

Enjoy!

KCat