Chartpak and Noodler's ink

[frotz]

I sent back an extra-fine nib for the second time, this time asking that it be replaced with a standard fine nib (tired of the almost okay XF nib nonsense). I got the nib today. On the included filling instruction sheet was a handwritten note saying this:

 

We recommend that you use only water-soluble fountain pen ink. Do NOT use water-resistant, waterproof or permanent inks in your Pelikan.

 

The way I read this, it seems that they're recommending against Noodler's. The only problems I've had with Noodler's ink is its tendency to leave unabsorbed dye on the surface of the paper, and I think I've almost conquered that one.

[Deirdre]

I don't know if they're recommending against Noodler's as much as they are recommending against iron gall inks and india ink.

[blueiris]

...

 

On the included filling instruction sheet was a handwritten note saying this:

 

We recommend that you use only water-soluble fountain pen ink. Do NOT use water-resistant, waterproof or permanent inks in your Pelikan.

...

 

(emphasis added by me)

 

I think what they mean is to avoid drawing ink, India ink, ink for rapidographs, or calligraphy ink--those formulations are typically not water-soluble and waterproof/water-resistant. They are not intended for fountain pens. I think that inks specifically made for fountain pens are fine.

 

There are some inks that are calligraphy inks that also say that they can be used for fountain pens, but I'd stick with inks that are formulated for fountain pens as their primary use, just to be on the safe side.

 

I hope you enjoy your pen!

 

(edited for readability)

Edited March 11, 2008 by blueiris

[Garageboy]

Did you use Noodlers in your XF before, henceforth the comment ?

[frotz]

Did you use Noodlers in your XF before, henceforth the comment ?

 

Yes, but I never mentioned my ink choice to them.

[blueiris]

Oh--now it does sound like they were referring to the Noodler's ink in your pen, if it was one of the waterproof ones. Sorry, I didn't get the connection that you had last used Noodler's waterproof ink in that pen before sending it to them. Did you try any other ink with the EF nib?

 

Was it Noodler's Black, by any chance? I have Noodler's Black myself, and I know from experience that it makes some of my pens stall and skip and generally perform poorly, until I clean it out and switch inks. It is tough for me to clean (it leaves a coating on the nib, as well as on the section of the pen--I don't have an ultrasonic machine, so I clean by hand). If it was the Black, or a color with similar properties (such as some of the UK eternal inks that had some clogging issues reported here), I'm guessing Chartpak tested the nib you returned to them and found the ink residue in the feed, prompting the comment. They didn't mention Noodler's by name, so who knows if that's what they meant. You could always ask them.

[frotz]

Oh--now it does sound like they were referring to the Noodler's ink in your pen, if it was one of the waterproof ones. Sorry, I didn't get the connection that you had last used Noodler's waterproof ink in that pen before sending it to them. Did you try any other ink with the EF nib?

 

Was it Noodler's Black, by any chance? I have Noodler's Black myself, and I know from experience that it makes some of my pens stall and skip and generally perform poorly, until I clean it out and switch inks. It is tough for me to clean (it leaves a coating on the nib, as well as on the section of the pen--I don't have an ultrasonic machine, so I clean by hand). If it was the Black, or a color with similar properties (such as some of the UK eternal inks that had some clogging issues reported here), I'm guessing Chartpak tested the nib you returned to them and found the ink residue in the feed, prompting the comment. They didn't mention Noodler's by name, so who knows if that's what they meant. You could always ask them.

 

My problem with the XF nibs was that they never felt very smooth and the last one recently developed a nasty bite -- nothing to do with ink clogs at all. I use Noodler's Black. The only problem with cleaning it is that ink of any brand will get caught in a cranny just aft of the threads that mate with the nib assembly. It easily wipes off anything else. It actually beads up in the ink chamber. I'm letting the pen sit without a nib and the barrel full of water for a day or so to see if that helps. It's not very noticable when the nib is mounted though.

 

I sent off a request for some Inksafe, which seems to be the answer to my smudging problem. It sounds like this stuff would fix your stall/skip problems.

[blueiris]

Oh--now it does sound like they were referring to the Noodler's ink in your pen, if it was one of the waterproof ones. Sorry, I didn't get the connection that you had last used Noodler's waterproof ink in that pen before sending it to them. Did you try any other ink with the EF nib?

 

Was it Noodler's Black, by any chance? I have Noodler's Black myself, and I know from experience that it makes some of my pens stall and skip and generally perform poorly, until I clean it out and switch inks. It is tough for me to clean (it leaves a coating on the nib, as well as on the section of the pen--I don't have an ultrasonic machine, so I clean by hand). If it was the Black, or a color with similar properties (such as some of the UK eternal inks that had some clogging issues reported here), I'm guessing Chartpak tested the nib you returned to them and found the ink residue in the feed, prompting the comment. They didn't mention Noodler's by name, so who knows if that's what they meant. You could always ask them.

 

My problem with the XF nibs was that they never felt very smooth and the last one recently developed a nasty bite -- nothing to do with ink clogs at all. I use Noodler's Black. The only problem with cleaning it is that ink of any brand will get caught in a cranny just aft of the threads that mate with the nib assembly. It easily wipes off anything else. It actually beads up in the ink chamber. I'm letting the pen sit without a nib and the barrel full of water for a day or so to see if that helps. It's not very noticable when the nib is mounted though.

 

I sent off a request for some Inksafe, which seems to be the answer to my smudging problem. It sounds like this stuff would fix your stall/skip problems.

 

Well that wasn't my experience with the Noodler's Black; it did not wipe off easily at all (and the film remains there because not even ammonia removed it). I don't think I had any actual clog with it (unlike some with the UK eternal inks who reported actual clogs if I recall correctly), but even without a clog, it was not a free-flowing ink. Again, this was not with a Pelikan, and I've never had a Pelikan EF nib, but the pen I'm talking about (Lamy Safari F nib) did develop a scratchy feeling before it stalled on Noodler's Black, but the scratchy feeling went away when I flushed out the pen and used something else. I suspect the scratchy feeling came from not enough ink getting to the tip, until the supply just stalled then stopped.

 

Thanks for the Inksafe suggestion. I do have some, but because the stall and skip problems are only with Noodler's Black, I just avoid using it straight except with flexy dip pens, when slower flow is a good thing. Instead, I mix a bit of the Black with some of my too-runny and fast-flowing Noodler's colors to balance the flow.

 

Hope you enjoy your pen!

 

(edited for clarity)

Edited March 11, 2008 by blueiris

[penhound]

I am currently using Noodler's bulletproof inks almost exclusively.

 

To clean my pens of clog problems I wash the pens more frequently than one would normally. I also have a tendency to us Platinum Carbon Black which I have heard from others is not very kind to some pens. I use it in a couple of specific pens when absolute permanence where I want no bleed if gotten wet as in use as ink drawing under watercolor painting.

 

I use a pen cleaning product from Koh-I-Nor called Rapido-Eze (available from art stores). I originally started using it for technical drawing pens when I worked in the graphic arts industry. The product has been in use on my collection for well over 30 years and I have never had problems with my pens attributed to it's use. I will rinse the pen out as clear as I can get it then fill with the rapido-eze several times getting more of the ink residue out, then I fill it again and let the pen or nib unit sit for a day or so. Sometimes the ink will stick to the nib and is very visible with the naked eye. When the pen gets a little "caked" with the ink I use a child's soft tooth brush to gently let residue out of the nib fins. So far this combination of efforts have served me well. I have used then method on nearly every pen in my 40+ years of fountain pen use and collection and it has served me very well. I currently have only one nib unit I can't get to work right and than is a VP nib that was modified from a bold to an italic and from day one, it hasn't worked quite right, so I don't consider it to be an ink problem, rather a flow problem with the unit.

 

Hope this helps you a little. I use both Noodler's bulletproof and the Carbon Black in all my pens including my fine point Pelikans and haven't experienced any major problems..

 

Good luck!

Edited March 11, 2008 by penhound

[framebaer]

I think I detect some confusion here. When Noodlers inks are listed as "waterproof" I believe that means after they have DRIED ON PAPER.

 

Noodlers inks are ALL water soluble meaning they will infinitely dilute( dissipate?) given enough water as long as they are not on paper(cellulose).

[blueiris]

I think I detect some confusion here. When Noodlers inks are listed as "waterproof" I believe that means after they have DRIED ON PAPER.

 

Noodlers inks are ALL water soluble meaning they will infinitely dilute( dissipate?) given enough water as long as they are not on paper(cellulose).

 

 

I agree. This is exactly why I thought at first that Chartpak's handwritten note had nothing to do with Noodler's. It was only after frotz indicated that he was using Noodler's Black that the connection became clear. It still doesn't exactly make sense, but if any of it happened to remain in the nib when Chartpak received it, maybe they presumed it was waterproof ink based on what they saw.

Edited March 11, 2008 by blueiris

[penhound]

Pendemonium has some really good information about Noodler's ink on their site. Look in their Noodlers ink section and click the link for more info right under the first picture of Noodler's bottles. You get a better explaination than someone trying to rely the info here.

[sharonspens]

Perhaps you should ask Chartpak what they meant (although they may not remember themselves at this point). I suggest this for purely selfish reasons; I have a couple of bottles of Noodlers on order, and I am very prepared to cancel that part of the order based on what I am reading here. I've been wishy washy about buying this ink for some time now, and I am leaning to the wishy end again.

 

Sharon

[frotz]

Perhaps you should ask Chartpak what they meant (although they may not remember themselves at this point). I suggest this for purely selfish reasons; I have a couple of bottles of Noodlers on order, and I am very prepared to cancel that part of the order based on what I am reading here. I've been wishy washy about buying this ink for some time now, and I am leaning to the wishy end again.

 

Sharon

 

I'm positive now that the cryptic note I got from Chartpak referred to india inks (they use alcohol to dissolve the shellac) and inks based on nonpolar solvents (xylene, toluene, etc). Noodler's is designed for fountain pens and the ingredients are fully water-soluble. It leaves no stains in my demonstrators and easily wipes off plastic and metal. The only drawbacks I've found are the smudging problem and nib-creep with the XF Pelikan nib I recently sent back.

[kiavonne]

Perhaps you should ask Chartpak what they meant (although they may not remember themselves at this point). I suggest this for purely selfish reasons; I have a couple of bottles of Noodlers on order, and I am very prepared to cancel that part of the order based on what I am reading here. I've been wishy washy about buying this ink for some time now, and I am leaning to the wishy end again.

 

Sharon

 

 

I can't tell you to try or not try Noodler's, I can only speak my own experience.

 

At this time, I use Noodler's exclusively. It is in all my inked pens, 4 of which are Pelikans (though one is yet uninked). I started with Noodler's because I wanted all that bulletproof goodness. I just kept adding more and more (including regular formula Noodler's) as I continued on, because I liked it and there is quite a color range. I have 3 blacks. Black, Polar Black, and Heart of Darkness. Only one, the regular Black, seemed to be a little bit of a slow mover in my pens and made them feel not so right. Polar Black is good, though, and Heart of Darkness is great. I even have 3 bottles of Baystate Blue, that is a permanent fixture in my blue marbled M200. That pen and ink combination just seemed made for each other in my eyes. I haven't gone on to other inks, yet, simply because I've been happy with Noodler's.

 

I haven't experienced any problems with flushing out my pens of the Noodler's - not yet, anyway. I love the Air Corp Blue-Black in my gunmetal gray VP, the Galileo Manuscript Brown in my Bexley BX701 Cappuccino, I have Walnut in my Taccia Staccato Honey Bee, Burgundy (Swishmix) in my ruby red Parker Inflection, Hunter Green in my green Lamy Al-Star, HoD in my red stripe Pelikan M600, etc. I'm having fun with it.

 

That said, others really like PR or Diamine inks, etc. I just happened to get started on Noodler's, and I'm as hooked on their inks now as I am on fountain pens. So, maybe try a bottle of each brand that strikes your fancy, and see which one does its thing best for you. Sell the other bottles that you don't want over in the Marketplace. Win/win. (I'd leave Baystate Blue for those not faint of heart, though, considering its different formulation and concerns over permanent staining.)

 

just adding my 2 cents to the pot.

[sharonspens]

 

I can't tell you to try or not try Noodler's, I can only speak my own experience.

 

At this time, I use Noodler's exclusively. It is in all my inked pens, 4 of which are Pelikans (though one is yet uninked). I started with Noodler's because I wanted all that bulletproof goodness. I just kept adding more and more (including regular formula Noodler's) as I continued on, because I liked it and there is quite a color range. I have 3 blacks. Black, Polar Black, and Heart of Darkness. Only one, the regular Black, seemed to be a little bit of a slow mover in my pens and made them feel not so right. Polar Black is good, though, and Heart of Darkness is great. I even have 3 bottles of Baystate Blue, that is a permanent fixture in my blue marbled M200. That pen and ink combination just seemed made for each other in my eyes. I haven't gone on to other inks, yet, simply because I've been happy with Noodler's.

 

 

Thanks for the comments. I hadn't considered buying some Noodler's and just selling it if I didn't like it! Perhaps I should just use up some of the ink I have on hand already (nah!).

 

Sharon

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

Noodler's bulletproof and semi-bulletproof colors leave behind a non-water-soluble residue on the nibs that you use it with. Chartpak probably saw that and decided that you were using something that would be bad for the pen. I haven't had much success removing the residue except through wiping, and that is the main reason why I don't recommend Noodler's. Once it gets into a place that you cannot wipe, it stays there pretty much forever.

 

Dillon

[Garageboy]

A few have been saying bullet proof black leaves a film. Well, my bulletproof Bank Note Green did the same thing. (Though it's technically not supposed to happen)

YMMV

[Celeste]

I have used Noodlers inks in my Pel 215 with a Binder xxxf nib for over a year now and have experienced no problems.

[Will Argyle]

I have several different shades of Noodler's bulletproof (or eternal) inks. Prior to using Noodler's I used Aurora Black or Waterman's Florida Blue exclusively (both are great inks).

 

My colors: Hunter green, Luxury Blue, Eternal Brown, Bulletproof Black, Year of the Golden Pig, Fox Red, Britannia's Blue Waves, and Iraqi Indigo.

 

Of the above colors I've only been displeased with two. Bulletproof Black runs too dryly through my pens. If I mix it with another color the slow feed problem goes away (Fox Red/Black and Luxury Blue/Black are especially nice). I don't like Britannia's blue waves, but only because the color belongs exclusively in eleven-year-old school girl's diaries in which they chronicle their feelings on their favorite Care Bears. It ran through my pen just fine.

 

All the inks creep a bit (except Eternal Brown, weird). I've not noticed any staining on the nib. I have blue ring stain inside my Waterman converter, but that was from Waterman Ink that I left in the chamber inexcusably long.

 

Iraqi Indigo is fabulous. As I mentioned, Eternal Brown doesn't creep and looks fantastic on ivory paper--it also gushes from my pens like diarrhea (but in a good way). Luxury Blue doesn't have the same 'pop' as Florida Blue, but I use Luxury Blue because I've been sucked into the marketing...my words must cling to the pages until the bitter end of time! Come Hell or high water, my scribblings and shopping lists MUST soldier on!!

 

In fact, my next major purchase will consist of stone tablets and a chisel.

 

Cheers,

 

Will

 

PS: I've named my Fox Red/Black combination 'Abigail Rose,' after my sister-in-law who fancies herself a Gothic poet. It is a very brooding, angstful color. I feel like I'm writing with bottled hate. Try it next time you correspond with your ex-wife/landlord/mother-in-law. I might also suggest the name 'Dead Roses' for those of you who haven't had the pleasure of meeting my oh-so-self-serious sister-in-law.