Why pen companies move from 14k to 18k nibs?

[Zed]

For some time I have been wondering why fountain pen companies move from 14k nibs to 18k nibs (actually most the companies have made the move pretty long time ago). It is a strange development for most of nibsters (like John Mottishaw and Richard Binder) seem to lament the move. Not only do they deem 18k nibs more fragile but also less customizable - especially with regards to adding flexibility. I have also read many comments by users that the earlier 14k nibs buy Pelikan (I am thinking of M800) and Bexley (and also Omas, Sheaffer, Mount Blanc &c. who made the move earlier on) wrote better than their contemporary 18k replacements.

 

I somehow understand the move with regards to limited editions, but why have so many companies made the move also with regards to their general production? Is it because 18k gold is more attractive than 14k to the general and uninformed user? Or is it because 18k gold is softer and therefore wears down the nibs producing machinery slower? (I guess the fact that 18k gold is more expensive than 14k one can in no way offset this factor.) Or is there some other reason behind it?

 

Can anybody shed light on this matter?

 

Thanks beforehand, Zed

 

 

P.S. I hope I haven't missed a thread where the matter has bean discussed already.

[greencobra]

I can't remember where I saw it or who said it, sorry, but a famous nib mechanic, and I'm confident it wasn't either John Mottishaw and Richard Binder, said it was a marketing ploy based on the "more is better" priciple. People would pay more for a 18K or 21K nibbed pen, passing over the 14K which would serve the owner very well. I want to say these thoughts could be from Frank Dubeil and I quote him often. Cruising the web one night, I came up with 2 or 3 films of him lecturing at various shows before he died. Agree with him or not, he was opinionated. And when I first started in this, I frequently upgraded the nib if given a choice, for no other reason than more is better. It's coming back to me now as I think about it, in one of these videos, he explains why he prefers the 14 to work on. Google him and see what you come up with.

[Univer]

Hi,

 

I'm confident that "status creep" is partly responsible for this trend. But there may be other factors at work.

 

For example, in the case of Sheaffer - I posted this fact in the Targa-revival thread - the company's leading markets are now outside the U.S. And I've always been under the impression that there are countries in which gold alloys lower than 18K cannot legally be sold as "gold." (Hence the existence of export-market vintage U.S. pens with 18K nibs rather than 14K nibs.) So Sheaffer may have switched to 18K partly in order to take this market skew into account. (Of course, that doesn't explain the 14K nib on the Valor....)

 

Cheers,

 

Jon

[penhound]

A little off topic, but still on topic.

 

Is it true that the more gold content a nib has, the stiffer the nib itself?

 

I resently got a VP Fermo with my first ever VP 18k gold nib and do not like it as well as the 14lk of the VP's I have bought on the US market. It just feels less flixible!

 

Facts and opinoins are greatly appriciated.

[Deirdre]

In many countries, gold content less than 75% (18k) couldn't be marked as gold, so that may be part of it, but it doesn't explain why the change now. In the US, we don't recognize gold content below 10k, but some countries recognize 9k.

 

I have steel, 14k, and 18k nibs, and the ones I most prefer are 18k. I don't have any steel nibs that I prefer over any of my gold nibs, though there are certainly quality differences in both categories. In the steel nib category, I prefer Aurora's Ipsilon over all others I've tried.

[Zed]

Is it true that the more gold content a nib has, the stiffer the nib itself?

 

As far as I know, the opposite is true as a rule. The more gold the the softer the allow. But there are exceptions and you probably have the one (for instance Aurora 18k nibs are clearly softer and hence more flexible than their 14k nibs). But precisely because of this softness - which is not to be confused with flexibility - these nibs are more likely to get permanently bend when flexed. That is why the two nibsters I mention in my original post add flexibility only to 14k nibs and out of these only those that show certain flexibility beforehand. Among the contemporary better known companies it is basically only Pelikan's, Aurora's, Bexley's, Stipula's, and Pilot's nibs that are suitable for such customization.

 

Hope this helps. Regards Zed

[Splicer]

Is it true that the more gold content a nib has, the stiffer the nib itself?

 

I resently got a VP Fermo with my first ever VP 18k gold nib and do not like it as well as the 14lk of the VP's I have bought on the US market. It just feels less flixible!

 

Just a guess, but I believe that the flexibility has to do with the shape and thickness more than the material, but that a harder metal can be made more flexible with less chance of bending or warping than a softer metal. The flipside is that a harder metal will be more likely to actually break.

 

The most flexible nibs are all made of steel (and they are all dip pen nibs). However, that may have more to do with the economics of making nibs that are more likely to be pushed to breaking point than the merits of the metal.

[Rapt]

Is it true that the more gold content a nib has, the stiffer the nib itself?

 

I resently got a VP Fermo with my first ever VP 18k gold nib and do not like it as well as the 14lk of the VP's I have bought on the US market. It just feels less flixible!

 

Just a guess, but I believe that the flexibility has to do with the shape and thickness more than the material, but that a harder metal can be made more flexible with less chance of bending or warping than a softer metal. The flipside is that a harder metal will be more likely to actually break.

 

The most flexible nibs are all made of steel (and they are all dip pen nibs). However, that may have more to do with the economics of making nibs that are more likely to be pushed to breaking point than the merits of the metal.

 

Its about the material properties.... Steel makes great springs which is what a flex nib is. So good in fact that there are grades of steel specifically made for spring making, and called "spring steel". Whereas gold is never used in the making of springs because it makes terrible ones. Gold is soft and ductile in it pure form, and so prone to bend rather than "flex". Steel on the other hand is tougher, stronger and springier than gold. Manufacturing a steel nib will take more energy, tool wear etc compared to gold, but the material cost is cents per pound rather than $1000 per oz. So the trade-off is worth while.

 

I'd say the best possible flex nibs could be made from steel nibs rather than gold ones, if you are purely concerned about flex performance. Once you start to throw in things like corrosion and overall life then other factors come into play.

[ashaw]

Deirdre is right. In the US for anything gold, Jewelry, Pens, etc is must be at least 14k. In Europe anything less 18k is not gold. Also 24k gold is very soft where as 18k and 14k gold much harder because of the alloys. As far as flex it is the shape and thickness of the nib.

[Splicer]

Its about the material properties.... Steel makes great springs which is what a flex nib is. So good in fact that there are grades of steel specifically made for spring making, and called "spring steel". Whereas gold is never used in the making of springs because it makes terrible ones. Gold is soft and ductile in it pure form, and so prone to bend rather than "flex". Steel on the other hand is tougher, stronger and springier than gold. Manufacturing a steel nib will take more energy, tool wear etc compared to gold, but the material cost is cents per pound rather than $1000 per oz. So the trade-off is worth while.

 

I'd say the best possible flex nibs could be made from steel nibs rather than gold ones, if you are purely concerned about flex performance. Once you start to throw in things like corrosion and overall life then other factors come into play.

 

I did not mean to suggest that material properties play no role, but if it were all about material properties and not about shape and thickness, Richard Binder and John Mottishaw would not be able to take a firm semiflex like a Namiki Falcon and turn it into a near-true flex.

 

My suspicion is that the more you shape and thin the nib to flex, the more closer you come to the point where gold will bend rather than flex. I'm certain that you're right that the best possible flex nibs can be made from steel rather than gold. I also suspect that corrosion is much less of an issue with modern steels. I've never owned a steel-nib fountain pen long enough to see corrosion, but then again, I've never owned a steel-nibbed fountain pen for more than 20 years. And yes, I do have dip pens that are toast after sitting around for only a decade, so I have no doubt that this was once a much larger issue than it is (or should be) today.

[penhound]

Thanks for the metallurgy discussion. I have a better understanding now. I never thought about corrosion and all the other stuff that goes into the production of quality nibs. I was only thinking about smooth writing and how a nib responds to my touching it upon paper. One learns something new everyday if one pays attention.

[Rapt]

Just a smidge more technical stuff for those who are interested.... The rest of you feel free to sleep through this part....

 

I did not mean to suggest that material properties play no role, but if it were all about material properties and not about shape and thickness, Richard Binder and John Mottishaw would not be able to take a firm semiflex like a Namiki Falcon and turn it into a near-true flex.

 

My suspicion is that the more you shape and thin the nib to flex, the more closer you come to the point where gold will bend rather than flex. I'm certain that you're right that the best possible flex nibs can be made from steel rather than gold. I also suspect that corrosion is much less of an issue with modern steels. I've never owned a steel-nib fountain pen long enough to see corrosion, but then again, I've never owned a steel-nibbed fountain pen for more than 20 years. And yes, I do have dip pens that are toast after sitting around for only a decade, so I have no doubt that this was once a much larger issue than it is (or should be) today.

 

 

My bad for over generalizing... In the case where the quality of the shaping is "equal" to the intent of flex, the material is what

makes the difference in what is "best". Yes a well shaped gold flex nib will be better than a poorly shaped steel one, but this discussion is about materials not the skill of the nibmeister.

 

Most materials have an "elastic" region for deflection under load and when the elastic load is exceeded a plastic region for deformation under load. The rate of elasticity is different for different material, that is the load for a given deflection on a given cross sectional area. In engineering terms this is the Modulus of Elasticity (given in a unitized form) and the yield limit. These are given per unit cross sectional area subjected to the load, so yes the absolute value deceases with thickness, but the unitized one is independent of load and is an intrinsic material property.

 

As you go to softer (more malleable) materials have a lower load (per unit area) where the yield point is reached, like gold with higher purity, the line between springy flex nib and bent dud get thinner and thinner. Gold is known for being UNspringy in nature, or exceptionally malleable. This makes it the antithesis of what you'd want based on pure material properties.

 

In his article Flex:A Disaster in the Making Richard Binder has a graph (http://www.richardspens.com/?page=ref_info/nib_disaster.htm) that shows the green/yellow area and the red area... The ratio of those relative to each other is determined by the material properties. In other words some materials have a very small green area and a very large red one. Others have exactly the opposite. Pure gold is one with a very small green area and spring steel is one with a large green area. Most grades of Titanium alloy fall in between, as do progressive grade of gold alloy. Or course with alloys there is also the issue of what effect the alloying material has on this ratio. Two different 14k alloys can be very different in nature. If you alloyed gold with lead you'd get something quite soft compared to alloying it with the same amount of nickel. FWIW nickel is a common alloying material for white gold, and lead is generally not used with gold.

 

In summary, shaping matters but the best shaping in the world won't make the material do something beyond it capability. Again Richard Binder mentions preferring to use 14K nibs for flex rather than 18k for this reason.

 

Everyone asleep now? :embarrassed_smile:

Edited February 19, 2008 by Rapt

[murph]

I wonder if work hardening ever has much of an effect with nibs? I'd expect lower gold content would make this more likely to happen as pure gold isn't known for work hardening very much.

[Zed]

I wonder if work hardening ever has much of an effect with nibs? I'd expect lower gold content would make this more likely to happen as pure gold isn't known for work hardening very much.

 

What do you mean by work hardening - that with use alloy gets stiffer? Is it really so? I have to admit that my logic screams that it should be the opposite...

 

Zed

 

[Rapt]

Work hardening is the loss of elasticity as a material is cycled past its elastic limit. At a crystal level in the metal the "slip"

sites are used up resulting in a material that will eventually crack or fracture.

 

It doesn't get stiffer, (the modulus of elasticity remains the same) however there is less and less plastic deformation, and the load to plastic deformation gets higher and higher until fracture occurs.

Edited February 26, 2008 by Rapt

[Tweel]

Work hardening is the loss of elasticity as a material is cycled past its elastic limit. At a crystal level in the metal the "slip" sites are used up resulting in a material that will eventually crack or fracture.

So this is something that happens when the nib is stamped at the factory(? -- before annealing?), but not during normal use..?

 

Is it possible for the metal to get less stiff during normal "elastic" use? That seems to me to be the case with stainless steel nibs. E.g. my daily writer for the last few years -- with umpteen meters of ink line written with it -- started quite stiff, but now has, not quite flex, but a definite spring to it.

 

-- Brian

[Rapt]

Work hardening is the loss of elasticity as a material is cycled past its elastic limit. At a crystal level in the metal the "slip" sites are used up resulting in a material that will eventually crack or fracture.

So this is something that happens when the nib is stamped at the factory(? -- before annealing?), but not during normal use..?

 

Is it possible for the metal to get less stiff during normal "elastic" use? That seems to me to be the case with stainless steel nibs. E.g. my daily writer for the last few years -- with umpteen meters of ink line written with it -- started quite stiff, but now has, not quite flex, but a definite spring to it.

 

-- Brian

 

Annealing will eliminate any "hardening" whether work hardened or heat hardened, that is the whole point of annealing. So if the nibs are annealed after stamping/forming then they would be considered "unhardened".

 

In pure elastic cycling there should be no change. If there is change in the behaviour then it isn't pure elastic cycling. There may be localized stress raisers causing minor plastic effects. Typically if metal gets "less stiff" then its the result of something called fatigue and the softening is due to crack formation at the stress raisers. Often the cracks are microscopic and won't be visible even under mild magnification at least initially. These cracks are also more prone to corrosion than the base metal. Most metals don't soften with working. As an example bend a piece of wire back and forth enough times and it will break, this is true whether its steel, copper, aluminum, or silver. Never tried gold.

 

However before you panic (or suggest I'm clearly being obtuse because your nib obviously isn't cracked ) I suspect in your case it has more to do with changes to the surrounding bits than a change in the steel itself. Perhaps a slight freeing of the nib from the feed and section. Not enough to allow it to shift out of position but enough that it is more able to flex. Some plastics do soften when subjected to repeated load.

 

As to whether work hardening happens in "normal" use depends on many factors... I would guess that flex nibs come quite close to those kinds of stresses fairly often while some are pushed over it and beyond by over zealous users. Even regular nibs used by those with a heavy hand may experience this effect. Its so hard to say. But I'd guess in general that the average user with the average nib doesn't typically apply that kind of load on their nibs.

 

Sorry to be so vague, but there are so many variables. To be precise would require knowing the precise alloy and treatment of the nib during manufacture and then the loads your writing applies and the number of cycles the loads are varied between... INn other words a lot of precise data collection and analysis. Considering many many vintage pens exist some even with cracks (fatigue induced perhaps?) and still function I wouldn't worry about it, just appreciate what's happening.

[Luca]

The claim that companies go 18k is just false. Indeed, most of the production uses steel and 14k gold alloys. 18k is used on flagship pens, and they are worth it. Steel is the best material for flex nibs, 14k is second best. I use stiff italic nibs only, where proper gold is an investment besides risting corrosion of acidic inks.

 

Luca

 

[skybird]

I hoid, that in Parkers case, the 14k nib is British and the 18k French for legal reasons. That reason is 14k is more practical and it needs to be 18k in France for recognition as gold. I love my 14k N Parker nibs.

The New Duo nibs are stamped 750 for 3/4s gold (18k I s'pose).

[Deirdre]

In some countries (France and Italy come to mind), 14k can be used for export but not within the country. It's probably less costly to produce only one grade of nib, though.