Baystate Blue Ruined My Yellow Lamy

[SamCapote]

I love the Baystate Blue color, but I would NEVER have dreamed that any ink would permanently stain a plastic used in a fountain pen. As a relative novice in this hobby, I could have used dark color pen if I had been warned. I don't know if all inks stain plastics like this, but I have tried to remove these stains with water...rinsing, rubbing with wet towel, and even Isopropyl rubbing alcohol on a q-tip. It will not come off, and this makes me angry. I took a digital photo to show what I mean.

 

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/baystate-mess.jpg

[jmkeuning]

Woah. . .

 

Tell Noodlers. They owe you a pen!

 

(or at least a section)

[petra]

I would try InkNix or Amodex, which are formulated to be ink stain removers. They take ink off of fingers, but I don't know about plastic. One other thing that I have found to be really good at removing ink stains is automatic dishwasher soap, but I'd be gentle with it on plastic.

 

You never know. Waterman South Seas blue stained the inside of the section on my silver-gray Bexley Americana. And I can't remove the nib myself.

 

petra

[SamCapote]

I would try InkNix or Amodex, which are formulated to be ink stain removers. They take ink off of fingers, but I don't know about plastic. One other thing that I have found to be really good at removing ink stains is automatic dishwasher soap, but I'd be gentle with it on plastic.

 

You never know. Waterman South Seas blue stained the inside of the section on my silver-gray Bexley Americana. And I can't remove the nib myself.

 

petra

 

Well I'll call Swisher Pens and let them deal with Noodlers. I don't know how to contact Noodlers, but this isn't right to happen without some common sense warning. There's nothing even in the Noodler's box or website about this happening. I honestly don't want to go out and buy those ink dissolving chemicals, nor do I think it is fair for me to pay for that.

 

This also raises serious questions in my admittedly inexperienced mind about what other staining damage this ink may be doing to our pens.

[Grog]

That is truly disappointing.

 

I hope you can either fix your pen or get a new section.

 

Amodex, if I remember correctly, is ammonia-based, so that may be a place to start. (Not full-strength of course.)

[Jimmy James]

I think I'd personally start with an overnight or longer soak in just plain water. Rinsing and soaking can be quite different in my experience.

[Lloyd]

Interesting. Read paragraph two here. These were Nathan's words. While I have a lot of respect for Nathan and like some of his inks, it appears that with the introduction of this higher pH ink (non-neutral) that stains plastic, he's willing to occasionally depart from his gospel of what an ink needs to be. :hmm1:

[SamCapote]

I spoke with the woman answering the phone at Swishers who has always provided me with excellent service, and she said they got one other similar problem by email, and is giving the information to the owner who has not yet found out about this problem. I'm sure they will at least replace the bottom of my pen.

 

I would not be complaining if there had been a clear warning enclosed with the ink bottle of this risk, before using. Fortunately for all parties, this is relatively inexpensive pen. I pity someone using a light colored vintage pen.

 

Also, this has stained my new clear plastic Lamy converter to a nice shade of blue. I can live with that, but just another heads up warning for anyone filling a converter with this. I cannot get it to wash out of the converter plastic either, so this has some unique ph or other binding properties.

 

I want to stress that despite these pen damaging issues, that I really love the ink color.

Edited January 31, 2008 by SamCapote

[Ghost Plane]

I'm grateful as the color looks pretty, but it's obviously NOT a good candidate for my expensive demonstrators.

[Dave Johannsen]

Also, this has stained my new clear plastic Lamy converter to a nice shade of blue. ... I cannot get it to wash out of the converter plastic either, so this has some unique ph or other binding properties.

 

Noodler's El Lawrence did the same to one of my convertors and to a glass eyedropper that I use for filling pens. No big deal at all, but even flushing with ammonia doesn't remove the color. "Bullet proof," indeed! :roflmho:

 

 

Dave

Edited January 31, 2008 by Dave Johannsen

[jsonewald]

I have a converter stained by Navy Blue. I don't care about the converter itself, but I am much more careful about which pens I load with Noodler's.

[SamCapote]

One other warning, I had a few drops while starting to rinse out pen go into a bathroom sink that is made of that fake marble, and it permanently stained the sink, whereas no other bulletproof ink has done that. It did come out with some Soft Scrub with bleach cleanser and elbow grease before the wife saw it. :embarrassed_smile: Letting the Soft Scrub with bleach sit on stain for a minute did not remove it. It required several minutes of hard scrubbing, so it was more the abrasion that ground it away, not the bleach.

Edited January 31, 2008 by SamCapote

[KingJoe]

How quickly did you wipe the pen after filling? That is, how long was the ink allowed to sit on the plastic before you attempted to clean it? Also, was this from dipping the pen when you filled it or from nib creep?

 

I really wanted to try this ink, but now I won't even open the bottle when it gets here. Off to the Marketplace it will be. Or, better yet, down the drain....ne'er to harm a pen.

 

~~King

[SamCapote]

How quickly did you wipe the pen after filling? That is, how long was the ink allowed to sit on the plastic before you attempted to clean it? Also, was this from dipping the pen when you filled it or from nib creep?

 

I really wanted to try this ink, but now I won't even open the bottle when it gets here. Off to the Marketplace it will be. Or, better yet, down the drain....ne'er to harm a pen.

 

~~King

 

At most a few seconds. I literally filled drawing up with converter, let excess go onto bottle lip, then applied Kleenex to wipe down ink on barrel with no delay. Next step was going to sink wetting Kleenex to wipe off, then wet corner of dark blue towel to try wiping harder. So this staining was done in seconds. I did have some slightly diluted ink on wet Kleenex make contact with barrel farther up, but that was able to be removed with clean wet towel within 2 seconds.

[KingJoe]

Interesting. Read paragraph two here. These were Nathan's words. While I have a lot of respect for Nathan and like some of his inks, it appears that with the introduction of this higher pH ink (non-neutral) that stains plastic, he's willing to occasionally depart from his gospel of what an ink needs to be. :hmm1:

 

I was working on a similar assumption, but the rules of any new ink from any maker should be followed. Always a good reminder helps. At any rate, it is a beautiful vivid blue!

 

~~King

 

 

Edited January 31, 2008 by KingJoe

[Eternally Noodling]

 

 

Ammonia and water will sometimes darken it....it will laugh at alcohol - so don't bother with amodex for the removal from cotton or paper. However - it is very vulnerable to simple "common water" (a mixture of approximately 15% to 25% household bleach and plain tap water). You will see that it won't leave the paper with many things - but common water and bleach make it vanish almost within an instant. There will not even be a remnant after treatment with bleach upon most paper grades...and it will also eventually fade before strong UV light. This is NOT an eternal or bulletproof ink.

 

 

Hundreds of pen users asked over and over again...."Can you make an ink with a more vibrant blue color that resists water once dried upon the paper and keep the cost down?". Many of those people who have written with that basic request are right here on FPN. "Baystate Blue" is just such an ink - it is so vibrant that on some paper grades the contrast is dramatic enough to stun the eyes - and the ink does not cost a penny more than any standard Noodler's color. The history of such a color is extensive - but always on the acid side....this is not an acid ink, BUT it also should NOT be mixed with other Noodler's colors or any other inks. Sometimes it mixes well...but as anyone can see by some posts online it is best to say "DON'T MIX IT" or risk somebody posting "I hate this new concept because it can't mix with everything...etc...". It should also be stressed that if you are hostile to new inks, new concepts in inks...and desire a weak ink akin to food coloring....please do not buy Baystate Blue. If you want an ink to mix with other inks - again...don't buy Baystate Blue. If you are among those who like new concepts in ink that expand the utility of the fountain pen so that it can remain a viable writing instrument for a long time to come....and you are among those people who have been asking for the greatest contrast and vibrance of blue inks with strong water resistance and general durability (though with a strategic weakness to "common water") - this ink was made for you.

 

A general note on the challenges of keeping an ink company's head above water:

Noodler's makes less than the post office and UPS on each bottle of ink sold - and the retailer also makes far more than Noodler's....but if they did not, the ink would not even be available to the public. We have barely survived and came within a single tax hike of moving from Massachusetts (one of the reasons for the label) or be rendered bankrupt as with so many other Massachusetts businesses. When we try to export to Paris, our product is slapped with heavy tariffs and taxes...but our competitors that are made in Paris enter the US virtually duty free....and retail for less here than they do in Paris. Then the EU wants not only Microsoft...but tiny ink companies...to divulge all their proprietary information about formulas to the public domain so that it can be freely counterfeited by competitors as far away as Shanghai. If the EU insists upon this - Noodler's will never again even reference an estimate of the European system of measure. All ink will be bottled by weight only - as it has been in the US since day one. By definition, this means our products will not be available in the EU. We have found greater freedom - ironically enough given our ongoing heated discussions with communists...in mainland China...than in the EU !!

 

One does not enter a 5,000+ year old business with more competition than any other for profit - but as somebody who grew up with fountain pens, one does seek to enhance the viability of the fountain pen through the expansion of its utility until it is recognized by the majority of writing instrument users as the most versatile and economically sound writing instrument known. A post like this hits harder than 1,000 positive remarks (one of the major reasons I bottle more and spend time online less).......so I simply ask - please try some "common water"....and if you are seeking a weak ink - just add food coloring to distilled water and call it a day. Noodler's will not reduce dye content and claim it's "safer" when the reality is the only thing that matters with ink IS dye content and its properties - pen users are buying an ink...not just bottled water. If you like an ink that has been "discounted" to 1/8th the dye content it once had in 1960 and made with the cheapest dye families with the least utility to the pen user (back in 1960 fountain pen inks were preferred to the alternatives - as ball pen ink vanishes in seconds before simple rubbing alcohol and acetone as well as after a few days in the sun)...there are other companies that make a product you'll like.

 

Virtually all Noodler's Inks are pH neutral and can rinse with plain tap water - Baystate Blue in general can rinse with plain tap water too....but if you must remove it from paper or some fabric, try common water - which also rinses pens well too (though as a rule: always rinse the pen with tap water if you have used a common water rinse). Baystate Blue is NOT pH neutral...and this is clearly stated on the label - it is on the alkaline side of neutral.

 

If there is a return rate that reaches 3% on any color - it will be halted. This includes Baystate Blue (though so little has been produced - and so little is available, that this point is likely moot). It should be noted that there are now far more colors in Asia than in North America - a customer in China has even had Noodler's formulate multi-weight inks including the color "Panda" (white on top, black on the bottom) and "Cherry Blossom" (white on top, bright red on the bottom) that write with mixed color lines and sometimes stripes - they remain apart because the dye families are of divergent weights and properties and do not mix...remaining separate in the bottle with a fine line of demarcation between the two that can be seen through the glass. Four divergent weight inks were test marketed in Canada, New York, Sweden, and Germany - that had these properties....though the return rate was not bad, the lack interest in such a concept was notable. The concept was requested in China - and is desired there...a dramatic difference between markets regarding new concepts in fountain pen inks. Also notable, the return rate there is 0%. The risks for new ink concepts are high - any one such risk can bankrupt a small ink company in the blink of an eye - and as a result the most tolerant market is more likely to have a greater variety of ink concepts in the end.

 

As a result of two comments - given that only 10 bottles at Swisher generated them - if there are more in this vein, then Baystate Blue will truly be limited. It is a vintage style ink (as stated on the label) and apparently some people in the market expect a post-1960 ink only. It is easier to halt a color while at ten bottles than later. Unfortunately, it seems the vast majority of people who have tried this color elsewhere truly love it and have said so (the depth, contrast, brilliance, and properties...as well as cost) - but we are too small a company to take many hits, even 3%.

 

Thank you for reading...

 

Back to the ink - which is only being made for a smile....my apologies for any frowns regardless of the reason.

[OldGriz]

OK, I am going to toss my 2 cents into this thread (for what it is worth).

Baystate Blue is not the normal formula configuration that Nathan uses in his other inks...

Therefore I feel you are all doing him a great dis-service by comparing it to the other inks in the Noodlers line and basing your assumptions on the statement made about the other ink formulations.

Nathan was good enough to come in here and explain a lot about the new ink and even mentioned how to remove it...

As for departing from "his gospel" (your words, not his) of what an ink needs to be, this ink was developed due to input and requests from customers... it is what the buying public wanted and he produced it as such...

Also read what he says about his complaint formula... "If there is a return rate that reaches 3% on any color - it will be halted. This includes Baystate Blue......."

The man is a reputable developer of inks... tell me anyone else who gambles in this business and has a better reputation for standing behind his products...

I think it is unfair to tar and feather a man before all the information has been received...

Personally, I am looking forward to my sample of Baystate Blue that is coming from Pear Tree Pens for comparison to some other blues...

I have had my say...

Edited January 31, 2008 by OldGriz

[KingJoe]

The man is a reputable developer of inks... tell me anyone else who gambles in this business and has a better reputation for standing behind his products...

 

Indeed. I love Nathan's inks, with very few exceptions, and Nathan himself has always been a class act. Our world would be a lot less colorful (and our words a lot shorter-lived) without Noodler's.

 

Any new ink from any maker should be handled with care, and this is an excellent reminder of such!

 

~~King

Edited January 31, 2008 by KingJoe

[Romeo Dog]

After badly staining a few vacumatics , I now assume that any ink will stain unless it has proven otherwise. That is why I avoid Namiki and Penman like the plague. I stay away from all violets and reds unless staining is not an issue.

 

Proven winners are Waterman and Sheaffer.

Edited January 31, 2008 by Romeo Dog

[Nellie]

Is all this the reason why Baystate Blue cannot be ordered at Swisherpens anymore now? That's a shame, as I would really have liked to try this ink. Does anyone know where people can still buy it?

(I still think it's good that this thread was posted and we were all alerted to the staining of this ink as well as the way to remove it, though.)

 

Thanks

Nellie

 

PS.: SamCapote, I am very curious to know if your stains will come off with bleach and water, so it would be very nice if you could let us know.