14kt or 18kt

[eytim]

Most of my better pens (Omas, Pelikan, Mont Blanc) have 18kt nibs and they write nicely. I usually don't buy c/c pens and prefer piston or in vintage LF or vacs. However I am now considering ordering a Laban pen in a 14kt or 18kt nib. Whihc will give me the smoothest writing experience. I have a Souveran 1000 in a F (which is as close I believe as I will get in this pen to a true Medium line) and also a Soveran 400 with a 14kt and I prefer the 14kt 400 by far.

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

[Oxonian]

Hi Eytim,

 

It should not make any difference to the writing experience as it is the tipping material that does the job and not the body metal of the nib. Some might feel that the 18ct will give a softer feel but I cannot detect any difference in feel between a well designed nib in Steel, 14 or 18ct, if the nib is well designed and properly used, ie not abused they all do the job they were designed to do, the body material is as far as I can tell or find out purely a cosmetic choice. All types and styles of nibs can be made in any suitable material or so I have been told and have seen in many years of collecting

 

As I understand it he main reason for the use of 18ct gold in nibs is that the French government, then I believe the EEC or whatever they care to call themselves now got in on the act, decreed that anything that presents itself to the buyer as gold should be at least 75% gold or 18ct. That and the fact that people seem to like the bling value of 18ct.

 

Cheers, John

[amh210]

In my opinion, it won't make a difference.

 

The smoothness of the nib (or the writing experience) depends far more on how the nib is finished (alignment, polish, etc.) and to some extent, your choice of ink. In a blind test, I don't think anyone could tell the difference between identically finished 14k, 18k, or even steel, nibs.

 

Andy

[OldGriz]

I would go with the 14K... you are not going to find any real difference.

On top of that, if you should for any reason need your nib worked on the 14K nibs are easier for experienced nibmeisters..

Richard had a post some time back about how difficult 18K nibs were to work on.... I believe that because of the softer gold, the 18K nibs were difficult to adjust properly.

[antoniosz]

I would go with the 14K... you are not going to find any real difference.

On top of that, if you should for any reason need your nib worked on the 14K nibs are easier for experienced nibmeisters..

Richard had a post some time back about how difficult 18K nibs were to work on.... I believe that because of the softer gold, the 18K nibs were difficult to adjust properly.

 

 

Let's clarify that what OldGriz is talking about refers ONLY to the increase in nib flexibility - which is one of the many nib adjustments that they usually do.

ALL other nib ajustments including strainghtening, tip modification, retipping etc. can be done on any material.

Bottom line is: NO, there is no difference between 14K and 18K in terms of getting a "smooth writing experience"..

[Shelley]

There are diffences in terms of flex-but 18 is probably worse than 14 here, but as to smoothness-no difference.

The bit in contact with the paper is usually rhodium and not gold-therefore you will not notice the difference and all the 18 will do is give you less money to spend on inks!

[eytim]

There are diffences in terms of flex-but 18 is probably worse than 14 here, but as to smoothness-no difference.

The bit in contact with the paper is usually rhodium and not gold-therefore you will not notice the difference and all the 18 will do is give you less money to spend on inks!

 

The 14kt will give more flex than the 18kt? I thought it would be the opposite.

[greencobra]

If you haven't seen it already, there's a video clip of Frank Dubiel giving a talk on nibs.

 

http://www.connectlive.com/events/penshow/pen1frank4.ram

 

He touches on 14 and 18k nibs about 8 minutes into the segment. The whole film is worth seeing.

 

[Shelley]

the amount of flex is due to alloys, gold will bend, but flex is the ability to respring to original shape, as oppose to just bend and then stay there, less gold the more alloys, the more flex-a chemical engineer could probably explain it better, but thats the laymans description.

[eytim]

the amount of flex is due to alloys, gold will bend, but flex is the ability to respring to original shape, as oppose to just bend and then stay there, less gold the more alloys, the more flex-a chemical engineer could probably explain it better, but thats the laymans description.

 

Thanks for the education

[eytim]

If you haven't seen it already, there's a video clip of Frank Dubiel giving a talk on nibs.

 

http://www.connectlive.com/events/penshow/pen1frank4.ram

 

He touches on 14 and 18k nibs about 8 minutes into the segment. The whole film is worth seeing.

 

Thanks

I look forward to watching it

[eytim]

If you haven't seen it already, there's a video clip of Frank Dubiel giving a talk on nibs.

 

http://www.connectlive.com/events/penshow/pen1frank4.ram

 

He touches on 14 and 18k nibs about 8 minutes into the segment. The whole film is worth seeing.

 

Hi

I just watched the clip. Thank you. It was very informative. What is the name of the book that Frank Dubiel cites. Are there several books in a series?

[Shangas]

In my, admittedly very limited experience, the amount of gold in a nib won't at all play a factor in how smooth it is. What determines smoothness is the tip and the tipping-material at the end of the nib's tines. That's the bit which touches the paper, after all.

[jd50ae]

I think I have just about every type of nib that can be had and the only real difference I can discern between any of them is from the condition or smoothness of the nib. I have not made a serious study of this but I have been using FPs for over 40 years. This is not to say there are not some really bad nibs.

[Stylo]

Though it probably doesn't have to be so, I do feel that gold nibs tens to give away under pressure in a slightly different way than steel nibs do (it could al be psychological). There may or not be any similar discernible difference between 14kt and 18kt. I haven't noticed any. But when it comes to smoothness, it is essentially due to how well the nib tip is polished, and perhaps to a much lesser extent how much friction there is when the tines rub against each other. Although for the latter, I think it may make a difference only if the tine surfaces touching each other are really rough. Keep in mind that I am mostly hand waving here

[mr T.]

the amount of flex is due to alloys, gold will bend, but flex is the ability to respring to original shape, as oppose to just bend and then stay there, less gold the more alloys, the more flex-a chemical engineer could probably explain it better, but thats the laymans description.

 

Indeed, less gold (14Kt) means more materials like copper or silver in the nibmaterial. That's why in theory a 14kt nib can be made more flex and stronger than an 18Kt nib.

 

However I am now considering ordering a Laban pen in a 14kt or 18kt nib. Whihc will give me the smoothest writing experience.

 

The first question to be answered here is, what kind of nib is preferred (flex or stiff, f or b nib etc.) for a smooth writing experience. The only thing '14Kt' or '18Kt' indicates is the percentage of gold a nib is made of (and nothing else). That a nib is '14kt' or '18kt' doesn't say anything about the writing qualities of the nib because it doesn't indicate the composition of the material, and it doesn't indicate how precise the nib is made. The best material in theory for most nibs is stainless steel because it's much stronger than any alloy with gold (and lasts longer), it is cheap and more likely to be machine made (and therefore more precise made). But in this case, stainless steel is not an option. Only for nibs that must be flex, in theory, 14kt the best material. Most important is however how precise the nib is made and not the material it is made of.

[Bennington1967]

Most of my better pens (Omas, Pelikan, Mont Blanc) have 18kt nibs and they write nicely. I usually don't buy c/c pens and prefer piston or in vintage LF or vacs. However I am now considering ordering a Laban pen in a 14kt or 18kt nib. Whihc will give me the smoothest writing experience. I have a Souveran 1000 in a F (which is as close I believe as I will get in this pen to a true Medium line) and also a Soveran 400 with a 14kt and I prefer the 14kt 400 by far.

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

In my experience 18k nibs are superior to 14k ones. Generally, the higher the gold content, the better the nib, though this is not always the case. All the steel nibs I've tried have been scratchy as nails.

Edited July 25, 2007 by Bennington1967

[Stylo]

All the steel nibs I've tried have been scratchy as nails.

 

That is just coincidence or due to having really cheap nibs. Some of my steel nibs are buttery smooth. All it takes is to make sure that the tines are aligned and that any roughness on the iridium tip has been smoothed out.

[pankaj]

IMO

14 k vs. 18 k is a conventional bling war - more often a price driver. You don't refuse to pay more for the 18. But none dominates the writing quality per se. Practically:

 

Visconti VG 14 k nib - superb writer

Lamy Safari steel - yet again

Lamy 2000 - 14 k - a moon walker

Sheaffer / Waterman / Parker - steel nib : all para gliders

 

Look at the other end:

Du Pont - 14 / 18 whatever - can I use that traditional term ' hot knife in butter '

MB 18k - the eternal snob - all time great

 

And top of all:

 

Sailor 21 k - simply etherial.

 

A 21 k cross / king eagle nib - the ultimate bliss : NIRVANA

 

My two cents out of personal exp.

 

Regards,

pc

Edited July 26, 2007 by pankaj

[Col]

Generally, the higher the gold content, the better the nib

Why's that then, would you say?

 

All the steel nibs I've tried have been scratchy as nails.

I don't think steel nibs are any more prone to scratchiness than gold nibs, although they may seem harder. I think you've just been unlucky.