Which lens to use for your FP

[The Legend]

I have a Nikon D70 since a couple of months with a

Nikon AF-S DX 18-70mm f/3,5-4,5G ED lens.

 

I was trying to make some close shots of my FPs and nibs, but the quality was poor.

 

However I see some great shots here in this forum part.

 

Can I use my current lens for it or what type of lens should I buy and why?

 

Thanx.

 

The Legend

Edited April 12, 2007 by The Legend

[Spongebob]

Hi. It's not so much the lens as the set-up. Many of the blurry images that show up on message boards are due to folks rushing and hand-holding the camera. The Very Best way to insure a sharp image is to use a tripod. So that's step one.

 

Second, lighting. Incandescent light can add a cast to images. I actually notice it more with my digital work than when I shot film. I find my very best close up photos are taken outdoors on a relatively overcast day. The clouds serve to diffuse and even-out the light. I've sold a few things on the net using photos taken this way and the buyers usually comment on the fine quality of the pix.

 

If outdoors is out of the question, you can use flash but by all means diffuse it with something. A quick Google search should turn up tons of homemade diffusers or soft boxes made from plastic milk jugs to tupperware containers. If you don't diffuse the flash will add harsh light and reflections.

 

I shoot Nikon but am not very familar with that lens. To what distance will it focus? I think you'd want to be able to get the camera to within a couple of feet of the pens. Will then lens focus to two feet or less? If not...it's not the end of the world. If you take a quality image (tripod, proper ISO setting) you can crop and resize it with your editing software a fair amount. Unless you'll use it for other things, I wouldn't spend the money on a macro lens, though a macro will give you the very best results for this type of work. Nikon's 60 mm micronikor is very good and can often be found used; just make sure the metering system will mate with your camera.

 

You will get the best results from yours or any other lens if you stop down the aperature into the middle ranges, such as f8-11. This of course will increase your need for light or a higher ISO setting but with that camera you should easily be able to go to ISO 800 without any image degradation.

 

The wonder of digital is that you can try all these things and if you're still not happy hit "delete" and try something else. But the tripod is probably the best first step.

 

Cheers,

Bob

[Farace]

QUOTE (Spongebob @ Apr 12 2007, 02:02 PM)

I think you'd want to be able to get the camera to within a couple of feet of the pens.

I agree with everything said, except I'd add that I've had good luck setting a camera up on a tripod several feet back and zooming in, as long as it's "real" zoom and not digitally interpolated zoom (or whatever they call it; it should be from moving the lenses and not done in software).

 

[JohnS-MI]

Good advice above on use of a tripod and lighting.

 

I googled the lens. At 70 mm setting, and closest focus, looks like full frame view is about 6" at the point of focus. This should be good for a whole pen capped or posted, or unposted, with a little white space around it.

 

It will not be close enough for nib shots. You could try a close up adapter lens, (screws into the filter threads) or buy a macro lens, or a zoom lens with a macro mode. You might be trying to get too close, inside where the lens will focus. Also you might have to focus manually, some auto-focus systems don't do well in close quarters. I am not familiar enough with this Nikon to say whether that applies. But a sharp photo HAS to be in focus, and everything steady enough for the shutter speed used.

 

If you post a photo, we might be able to tell if it is out of focus or motion blur, and could offer better advice.

[kkhardwarestore]

I agree with the others about the tripod. The inexpensive closeup lens filters are a good alternative to spending big money on a macro lens though there are some limitations to their use. If your camera is set to the highest resolution you should be able to get nice results with your lens as it is.

 

Here is a pretty good thread about building a cheap light box.

 

DIY light box

[PinarelloOnly]

QUOTE (The Legend @ Apr 12 2007, 05:13 PM)

I have a Nikon D70 since a couple of months with a Nikon AF-S DX 18-70mm f/3,5-4,5G ED lens. I was trying to make some close shots of my FPs and nibs, but the quality was poor. However I see some great shots here in this forum part. Can I use my current lens for it or what type of lens should I buy and why? Thanx. The Legend

 

Can't help unless you describe what poor quality you see in your shots.

 

If you cannot get good pics with a D70 a better lens is not going to help.

 

The Nikon D70 is a really good camera and will produce excellent results if you are

willing to use a tripod for the long shutter times and take your time on set ups.

 

Most DSLR owners like my wife, do not have the patience for it. She is the 90% of

DSLR owners who shoot everything full auto and never really learn what the

camera can do.

 

Some of my shots that look like macro shots are cropped using Nikon's software

with the D50 I use and that is with the "kit" lens. Do not spend any money on a

macro lens or any lens upgrade until you are a pro with your own camera.

 

 

This shot if I can remember was in low natural light (no flash) / tripod / manual

mode (aperature priority) full ap / EV at +1 / timer set (so there was no shake

when the button was pushed for the shutter) / ISO@200 / then cropped. (Shutter

was open about 15 sec.)

 

http://fototime.com/%7B5AE87AAD-AED2-406E-98C9-F67CB949D514%7D/picture.JPG

 

[Bill]

QUOTE (Spongebob @ Apr 12 2007, 01:02 PM)

...Nikon's 60 mm micronikor is very good and can often be found used; just make sure the metering system will mate with your camera...

Any of the current Nikkor Micro lenses will work with the D70/D70s. Even the older 55mm manual macros will work but you cannot meter with the camera. The 60mm is the most affordable of the choices and is generally the most useful for pen photography for most people because of working distance and depth of field issues. I sometimes will switch to the 105mm for the increased working distance when using large softboxes.

 

As described by others, the close-up adapters (diopters), while limited in versatility, are the most affordable solution.

 

Bill

 

BTW for you Nikonians: I got one of the new 105mm VR Micros at work. The VR continually has less effect as the lens has more extension. In other words, the VR is basically useless for macro work. And it is larger and heavier than the regular 105; not worth the extra $200.

[pilgrim]

these pictures

were taken with the same camera and kit lens (Nikon AF-S DX 18-70mm f/3,5-4,5G ED) on highest resolution and polished with corel photopaint.

not sure about yours criteria, but for me the quality is not so poor.

 

high resolution, tripod and timer set, good lighting, low ISO, avoiding "auto full - working and thinking instead of you program", a bit of postproduction with the computer it should be enough. D70 is very good camera and kit 18-70 very good lens (for that money).

 

[SMG]

The basics have been covered already.

Tripod, timed release or remote release of shutter.

Lowest Iso you can set the camera at.

Correct White balance, or learn to set custom white balance.

I use jpeg capture, not RAW as fiddling with the software takes just too much time for me. If I had Adobe RAW I might change my mind on that though.

I use Photoshop 7.0 for all my images, a little white balance tweak or slight unsharp mask and that is about it. Occasionally crop as well, but it is easier if you just frame it right from the get go.

 

I have used a light tent, probably one of the biggest improvements in my images came from that with continuous lighting. I hav a couple of clamp lights and some daylight balanced flourescent bulbs. Could use pretty much any light as long as you set custom white balance. Natural light is nice if it is early in the morning or late in the afternoon, but can be unpredictable.

 

I have been experimenting with an umbrella and slave flash setup for a week or two now and find it is much more difficult to get decent results first time out of the box so to speak. Once you get it dialed in though the results are nice. Check out my logo image at the bottom, shot with slaves and an umbrella.

 

I use a Sigma 105mm f2.8 macro and the results are very good for not just nibs but for the whole pen.

 

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b319/Ragnarok69/doublejewel51editcopy.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b319/Ragnarok69/silver%20and%20emerald/emeraldpair.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b319/Ragnarok69/silver%20and%20emerald/silvertassie.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b319/Ragnarok69/BurgundyVacNib1000pix.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b319/Ragnarok69/SMGPensLogosmall.jpg

 

Cheers,

SG

[kkhardwarestore]

Nice photos for sure Sean. IMO it is easier to adjust the white balance when I shoot in RAW. I never have understood the need for a RAW converter. I review my photos on my memory card using 'Irfanview Thumbnails' (comes bundled with Irfanview a freeware program) it will read and display Raw images. Then I open the photo with Photoshop Elements, adjust white balance and other settings, crop, etc. Then save as a JPG. The RAW images, to me, seem to have a little more range for making various adjustments especially WB.

[SMG]

Do you shoot Nikon or Canon?? Nikon's RAW files are actually NEF files and when I bring them up in PS the preview is so small as to be nearly useless. If I Have to shoot RAW I use a convertor (which I cannot remember at the moment), but it is still a slow process for me.

 

I just use a grey card in my setup and set the white balance to that. No issues with the white balance then.

 

Cheers,

SG

[kkhardwarestore]

I shoot Canon...that could certainly make a difference. I just checked to see if NEF files were supported by Irfanview and did not see it on the list...never mind.

[The Legend]

Hee there all,

 

Some excellent and overwhelming advice so far.

 

Thanks!

 

I took a 'pen and watch' picture last week and put it in the same category.

 

You can find it here.

 

There was some good outside light falling in, but I took it automatically from the hand .

 

So with your advices I am going to repeat this picture and come back with the result.

 

Till later.

 

The Legend

[kkhardwarestore]

I think a tripod would help that pic. Your EXIF data isn't present on the file so I am going to stab in the dark. I would suggest shooting in aperture priority mode then take say 3 shots at the lowest aperture (= shallowest depth of field) refocusing between each shot. Work your way up one stop at a time to around f/13. You will notice as you move up the shutter speed will get slower and slower. The depth of field will increase too. Then review your shots and note the aperture of the ones you like. I learned through trial and error using this method. I now shoot almost exclusively in complete manual mode setting the iso, shutter, and aperture.

 

The photog forums are also a big help. The DSLRs are really great cameras but to get the most out of them requires some practice and a learning curve even if you have shot film SLRs your whole life. I am still learning after a year with the camera.

 

www.fredmiranda.com is my favorite photog site. There are a lot of pros who are willing to help on the photo forums. I have learned the most on fredmiranda's weekly assignment. They have a weekly theme which pushes me to try new techniques, then people critique the shots.

 

A little post processing goes quite far too. The top is your pic, the bottom is what I came up with after adjusting the contrast, lighting, color balance, and some sharpening (and cloning out that dark corner).

 

http://thckkcom.ehost-services110.com/tb-img/post-8a.jpg

[The Legend]

Great help so far !

 

And nice adjustment of my picture just above here.

 

I made a photo-shoot of my new Pelikan Niagara Falls with a number of advices from here, including adjustng gamma, contrast, brightness with my favourite application Irfanview.

 

Take a look and tell me if I learn...

 

The Legend

 

 

[SMG]

I looked at your Niagara Falls pictures, some are soft and only in focus on the barrel of the pen. The use of lighting is good, but it is still soft and a little on the grey side.

 

If you are using your D70 I would suggest getting into the menu and changing your focus area to closest subject. It would appear that you are using matrix focus mode which is why some of your images have the point of focus away from the nib.

 

Alternatively you can use point focus and select which focus point in your viewfinder you wish to use depending on the framing of your pen in the shot. The focus points in the viewfinder can be moved with the round touch pad on the back of your camera when in point focus. If you also use spot metering this will ensure that the focus point and the metering point are the same.

 

Remember though that any changes made in the manual mode stay there after the camera is turned off. If you are going to shoot family or sports you might have to remember to go back to some more middle of the road settings in your camera.

 

Cheers,

SG

[peapicker]

This shot:

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s77/hruud/FPN_Pens/Pelikan_Niagara/405_640_605_front.jpg

Really should be done on a tripod with a very long exposure and a high f-stop, like f36.

 

What are f-stops? they control your depth-of-field, or how much of the image is in focus from close to far. The way this is achived is by controlling how much light is let in when you click the shutter which is done with the size of the "hole" (called an aperture) that lets the light in.

 

A low f-stop, like 2.8 (or lower), makes a big hole for the light to go through, and therefore the point of focus will be fine (the middle of the pen barrel in this case), but things closer or farther will be blurry. Because the aperture is big, a lot of light comes through, so the exposure time is short.

 

A high f-stop, like f22 (or higher) has an aperture more like a pinhole for the light to go through. Because the aperture is so much smaller, not only is the point which you auto-focused on in focus, but things closer and farther are also in focus. But, because the aperture is small, comparatively much less light will enter the camera, so you will need a longer exposure time -- often 10 to 15 seconds at normal room lighting levels and ISO100. Because of this, a tripod becomes a requirement.

 

Enjoy your camera, the D70 is a fine instrument. Personally, I went the Canon DSLR path, but they are both very nice and capable.

Edited April 14, 2007 by peapicker

[peapicker]

Here are some depth-of-field examples with a Waterman Expert II in Urban Silver.

 

(Pictures shot with a Canon 300D (Digital Rebel) and the stock EF-S 18-55mm lens at a distance of about 9 inches.)

 

I set my camera on "aperture priority" which means everything is automatic after you select the ISO speed and aperture (f-stop). I was using ISO800 because I forgot to check what it was set to. Normally I would use ISO100 or ISO200 indoors with a tripod. (High ISO = fast, highly sensitive digital sensor, but grainy image due to more noise from the sensitivity. Low ISO = slow, less-reactive digital sensor, but smooth image with richer color)

 

f5.6 1/60 ISO800

Notice the foreground and background blurring, including the near and far ends of the pen -- the same as your image.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/246/458858777_5c4c155a6b_o_d.jpg

 

f36 0.6sec ISO800

Note the extreme focus - from the very near table to the chair in the distance.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/193/458858779_cb3ed6baff_o_d.jpg

 

f3.5 1/50 ISO800

An example where a short depth-of-field (low f-stop, same as "big aperture") makes sense: the entire pen is at the same distance from the lens

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/201/458858773_b9670b236f_o_d.jpg

Edited April 14, 2007 by peapicker

[Spongebob]

You may find it easier and less frustrating if you align the object to be photographed in one plane only. In other words, straight up and down. This will help eliminate some depth of field and critical focus issues.

 

Put another way, try to shoot the pen from right angles. Either prop it up and shoot it straight on, or place it flat on a table and photograph by holding the camera over the table so the film plane is level and perpendicular. It's pretty tough to get good quality shots when the subject involves many different planes, at least when you're first starting out.

 

Also pay attention to distracting backgrounds. The old adage "Anything that doesn't add to the scene detracts from it" applies here.

 

Bob

[RichardS]

... try to shoot the pen from right angles. Either prop it up and shoot it straight on, or place it flat on a table and photograph by holding the camera over the table so the film plane is level and perpendicular. It's pretty tough to get good quality shots when the subject involves many different planes, at least when you're first starting out.

 

Also pay attention to distracting backgrounds. The old adage "Anything that doesn't add to the scene detracts from it" applies here.

Very good advice. I like to shoot with natural, diffused daylight (from a window), small aperture (f16-ish), slow shutter speed and always with a tripod and remote shutter release. Lately I've used a Nikon D50 with its kit lens - which is said not be as good as the one on your D70. But used as described, it seems pretty good to me - at least for Web use, which actually isn't very demanding.

 

There are some extremely helpful tips HERE on really simple but effective low-cost daylight setups.

 

For macro photography, I'd recommend extension tubes rather than add-on lenses which can compromise the image. A manual set costs a few pounds on Ebay and you can use your existing lens, though you will have to set your aperture manually and exposure is by trial and error. But in practice, this means using the exposure your camera recommends without the tubes, then slowing the shutter speed a notch or two. And anyway, with digital, there's no waste and with still life, who's hurrying?

 

Here are a couple of standard daylight shots (in a flat plane as Spongebob describes) using natural daylight with the D50 kit lens, and a nib shot using the extension tubes.

 

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/383/dsc1327bha3.jpg

 

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6131/allvacs3phostuaka2.jpg

 

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/6746/dsc2428bww0.jpg

Edited April 20, 2007 by RichardS