Do you believe in Nibs altering to your writing?

[kissing]

This contraversial theory seemed to have existed for as long as fountain pens were around.

 

When I goto pen stores that sell fountain pens, the shop owners always seem to assume that nibs do change rapidly to the owner's handwriting and thus refuse to accept exchange/refunds after a few weeks or so.

 

Parker's FP care manual states not to lend your Fountain Pen to others as they might affect how the nib is molded.

 

I seem to have personally experienced this myself too. Some of my pens that I have used for a long time feel considerably different to write with compared to the same model pen that is brand new.

 

Does it also depend on whether you're a hard-pressing writer, or a gentle writer? Is the whole thing just a scam - just an Urban legend plotted by manufacturers to sell more pens?

 

Is there a deeper spiritual dimension to this? :)9

 

What is your view?

[fjf]

That's a hard question, similar to the hypothetical burn-in that audiophiles say takes place in audio equipment after its use for a few hundred hours. Is it the electronics that change or maybe your brain gets used to the sound signature of the machine in question?. Well, here is the same. Is the nib changing, or maybe you are getting used to it and modify your writing?. Honestly, don't know.

[WillAdams]

The most interesting theory on this I've heard is that the inside of the slit of the nib becomes polished and adjusted to the pressures and deflections caused by an individual's usage --- seems plausible, but hard to investigate given the inaccessibility of the area.

 

William

[kissing]

Considering that any metal has the property of changing shape, it is plausible that frequent pressure to it in a particular characteristic way would have some affect on the overall shape after time.

 

Some sellers claim that it is the Gold nibs that change shape more readily - but I disagree with that one, and dismiss it as marketing hype (as gold nibs cost more than steel). Gold nibs are often more stiff than steel nibs anyway, because they're fortified into a stiff alloy. But the softer-type gold nibs do adjust - right?

 

Also, the 'iridium' tipping wears away slowly, creating 'sweet spots'. I read on the wikipedia article on fountain pens that "the quicker the tipping wears out, the quicker it adjusts to the user's handwriting".

 

Personally I think that the nib does in fact change to suit a person, but I have heard many contradictions against it too which sound plausible as well

 

Maybe it's so complicated that there is no right or wrong answer , but it is interesting to hear everyone's point of view on this

Edited October 30, 2006 by kissing

[Leslie J.]

I voted undecided. It's theoretically possible. I don't think it will ever happen in my case though, because like many others here, I have lots of pens and rarely use the same one long enough to see a change in my lifetime probably. If I used only one pen and had a way of quantifying changes, maybe I could agree.

[pigpogm]

I got a Parker 51 on eBay that seemed like it had been used for many years at an angle, and the end of the nib was worn down to the angle the previous owner had held it at.

 

I figured I could just use it for thirty or forty years myself, then it would straighten up.

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

Then I got bored with waiting after a day or two and flattened it down with a nail polisher. :blink:

[LapsangS]

Gold nibs are often more stiff than steel nibs anyway, because they're fortified into a stiff alloy. But the softer-type gold nibs do adjust - right?

But then, aren't gold nibs tipped with some hard metal as well? I have always thought that it is not the golden part that touches the paper when writing?

[Guest PeteWK]

I could believe the addage when applied to something like a full flex Waterman 52 or Wahl Eversharp Doric (Man do I have a flexible one of those!). But there's no way I'll believe it when it comes to my Sheaffer PFMs or Triumph nibs. They're just too stiff to conform to much of anything.

 

PeteWK

[Green Maned Lion]

A fountain pen is a rather delicate object, and a tiny change in the nib, the smallest of differences, make a pen have a quantifiable difference in writing style. As some have said, Pelikan nibs can be hit or miss. They are all made on the same machine. Yet some write well, and some don't. Because of vast differences? Nah, because of small ones most people can't see without a microscope, or atleast a loop.

 

Is it reasonable to assume, then, that all nibs, even those made by the same manufacturer, on the same tooling, on the same day, are all, infact, slightly different? Alright then. Now, I sit everyday on this same cloth and wood chair in the library at my school up in the study area cubicals. Sit in the same cubical. I ended up marking my chair with a small letter, because whenever someone moved them around, i knew it was a different chair.

 

Is it because its conformed to my bum, even though i am sure hundreds of people have sat on it, and more than one person does so daily? Or is it because it is slightly different then the others, just in general? I think its the latter. The have all worn differently, were probably slightly different when they were made, and you can tell the difference.

 

Now, pens don't last forever. As one mentioned, nibs wear down over time. Very very slowly, but they do. Now, to say that the wear is "adjusting to my writing style" is a little silly. Its suggesting that the pen is happier to write in my style then others, which is ridiculous. It could be, because of the way I use it, I am making it LESS able to write the way I want it to. If I write putting 20 lbs of pressure down on it, over time the pen will "adjust" to the point where it won't write well at all or may even break.

 

However, because I write with the same pen, and the wear occurs so slowly, my writing style will slowly adjust to the pens wear. So if anything is "adjusting" its the writer. The pen isn't "adjusting", its wearing out. Fountain pens ARE different with this. Why? Well, a ballpoint or roller ball is different from a fountain pen in that you replace the entire writing system when you run out of ink. The fountain pens nib remains on the pen for its life, in most cases. So the change is forever, and it lasts long enough to wear out.

 

Edit: btw, a store will think that they adjust, and thus won't refund money. DUH! A store will think of any plausible excuse to not refund money. Or atleast some do.

Edited October 30, 2006 by Green Maned Lion

[Meuge]

I have proof that the nibs do change shape visibly within a reasonable amount of time.

 

Both pens seen below are Waterman Phileas Medium, bought at the same time. One was sitting in a desk, and the other one was used to write about 700-800 pages of lab notes over the course of around a year.

 

http://www.themeuge.com/misc/phileas_new.jpg

^ Note the round tip in the picture

 

 

http://www.themeuge.com/misc/phileas_used.jpg

^ Note the ball polished away into a nearly straight line

[sonia_simone]

That sounds right to me. They do slowly wear out, but I don't believe that they "conform" to one's writing style.

 

The advice to not lend pens may be sound only because a ballpoint user may spring the nib with too much pressure. But the pen will not instantly "conform" to their writing style. (And if it did, why wouldn't it just conform back to yours?)

 

Sometimes a new pen seems to break in and a skippy cranky pens will shape up--my suspicion is that this is just residual manufacturing oils being washed out of the system.

[Titivillus]

That sounds right to me. They do slowly wear out, but I don't believe that they "conform" to one's writing style.

 

The advice to not lend pens may be sound only because a ballpoint user may spring the nib with too much pressure. But the pen will not instantly "conform" to their writing style. (And if it did, why wouldn't it just conform back to yours?)

 

Sometimes a new pen seems to break in and a skippy cranky pens will shape up--my suspicion is that this is just residual manufacturing oils being washed out of the system.

Yes I'd agree that over time a pen might form or change to a person's writing style but the changes would have to be rather subtle or most of the vintage pens that are out there would alread ybe 'broken in' to a particular person's writing style and might not behave for a different person. But for the most part this is not true

 

K

[*david*]

1. Your brain does mold to suit your pen, if you use the pen a lot. I suspect many people think the pen improved, when all that happened was that they had thoroughly learned the quirks of that pen.

 

2. Pens bend and wear with use. This is not "molding to your hand", but just wearing out. By chance, a partly-worn-out pen might happen to feel good.

[Dr.Grace]

I have proof that the nibs do change shape visibly within a reasonable amount of time.

 

Both pens seen below are Waterman Phileas Medium, bought at the same time. One was sitting in a desk, and the other one was used to write about 700-800 pages of lab notes over the course of around a year.

Well, I have to point out that this doesn't prove anything unless you have a "before" picture of the well-used one. The reason is that we don't know what the variation in nib points is among Phileas pens. Maybe the nibs started out looking different.

 

Sorry, I'm a scientist by profession and there has to be a valid "control" for your experiment.

 

 

Don

[umenohana]

I know that before I taught myself to hold my pens in the Victorian style, the tips of my dip pen nibs would get ground into an oblique shape and became more flexible over time.. But then again, I used a steel dip pen with iron gall ink.

 

Now I write with less pressure (except for when making flex-flourishes), and my steel dip nibs seem to last longer, but don't get as flexible. (They are the exact same make and model as ones mentioned above.)

 

-Hana

[Meuge]

I have proof that the nibs do change shape visibly within a reasonable amount of time.

 

Both pens seen below are Waterman Phileas Medium, bought at the same time. One was sitting in a desk, and the other one was used to write about 700-800 pages of lab notes over the course of around a year.

Well, I have to point out that this doesn't prove anything unless you have a "before" picture of the well-used one. The reason is that we don't know what the variation in nib points is among Phileas pens. Maybe the nibs started out looking different.

 

Sorry, I'm a scientist by profession and there has to be a valid "control" for your experiment.

 

 

Don

Well, this is about as exact as I can get. However, consider that now the worn Phileas feels scratchy, wherefore it did not before. Additionally, the angle of the wear plane corresponds exactly to the angle at which I hold the pen.

 

In retrospect, that's about as much proof as I could possibly come up with.

 

P.S. I am a scientist myself, so I am well aware of what a control is.

[kissing]

Gold nibs are often more stiff than steel nibs anyway, because they're fortified into a stiff alloy. But the softer-type gold nibs do adjust - right?

But then, aren't gold nibs tipped with some hard metal as well? I have always thought that it is not the golden part that touches the paper when writing?

I was referring to the overall structure of the nib - not just the tipping. The slit, the curvature of the thin part that holds the tipping material, the balance of the shoulders, etc.

 

 

I am someone who does tonnes and tonnes of writing with just a few pens - as I don't own that many. The example pen I'll use here are Vectors. I have an old Vector which was my very first fountain pen. I compare it with 4 new Vectors with the same nib. Variation is a factor, but the relative difference between my old Vector and all 4 new Vectors is definitely there. I see physical changes in my new Vector - a slight flat spot that I believe is its 'sweet spot', and the nib (like in Meuge's photos) is subtly bent upwards.

 

A Parker "51" I obtained originally had a heavily biased nib. When I tried to write with it in my handwriting, there was heavy resistance...but when I let the nib lead the way - I found myself writing in this different style of handwriting which is completely legible, but not my own :ph34r: Is the previous owner of the pen haunting it

 

2 Sonnets - wrote very similar to eachother at the very start. One went to my father, and one went to me. After a couple of months of heavy useage, I tried to use my father's Sonnet compared to mine. I had a great deal of trouble trying to write with it. I could only write with it ok if I imitated my father's style.

 

I have noticed that my Inoxcrom, which I use everday to write pages and pages of notes has tipping more worn out on one side than the other. I also see that the slit has become misaligned. However, it is 100% comfortable for me to write in. If I deliberately change my handwriting to printing, etc, I feel the pen rejecting it

 

But then again, like others have said. It could have been just that my brain and my hand got used to the pen. It's something very difficult to test scientifically as pens are very personal things. But whatever it is - pens do feel more pleasant and comfortable to use after you've used it for a while, and I love it

Edited October 31, 2006 by kissing

[*david*]

These all sound like clear examples of wearing a flat spot in a certain place on the nib at a certain angle - in other words, the pen is wearing out. The original owner does not necessarily like the pen better now - they may have liked it better when it was new and rounder.

[spinwards]

It only seems to happen when I write on micromesh :ph34r:

[wiglaf]

Seems as though this discussion belongs on the Alchemy site.