A half-dozen greens compared

[BillTheEditor]

Here is the "Green" page from my ink notebook, as it currently stands. The only green in my collection that is not on the page is Levenger Gemstone Green, which would be the darkest green on the page if it were here (except for Zhivago, which might not really be a "green").

 

Colors are almost perfect on my monitor. They have been corrected from the original scan. I was surprised that I could get all of them to correct appearance at the same time.

 

The Eternal Hunter Green is the only one on the page that feathered significantly. Green Marine, Supershow Green, and Hunter Green all came through the paper and are visible from the back side of the page.

Edited July 22, 2006 by BillTheEditor

[southpaw]

Hmmm . . . an ink notebook, GREAT IDEA! Thanks for sharing, and I think I'll have to start one!

[Inkanthropist]

Thanks for the scan, Bill. I'm interested in Noodler's Zhivago at the moment. Is it really a black that has green hints if you look *very* closely, or would green-black be a better description? I have the Herbin Vert Olive, and your scan exactly matches what I see on paper in front of me, but the Zhivago looks pretty black on my monitor.

 

Neil

[BillTheEditor]

Thanks for the scan, Bill. I'm interested in Noodler's Zhivago at the moment. Is it really a black that has green hints if you look *very* closely, or would green-black be a better description? I have the Herbin Vert Olive, and your scan exactly matches what I see on paper in front of me, but the Zhivago looks pretty black on my monitor.

 

Neil

The Zhivago looks pretty darn black to me, even up close and personal. It is totally not what I expected from reading descriptions of it here and elsewhere. In the bottle, with light shining through the ink, it looks like a very very very dark green. On paper, I can only rarely see any hint of green, as shading where the ink didn't lay down quite as heavily, but those hints are so tiny that they are almost invisible -- at the start of strokes or at the very top of an upstroke. If there are green "highlights" they aren't very outstanding.

 

I could be kind and describe it as a kind of "soft-looking" black. If I stare at it in bright light, I can convince myself that I am looking at a really dark green, but to all intents and purposes, when people look at it they think "black."

 

Oddly, when I scanned the page and was looking at the writing in extreme closeup while doing color correction, then I could see more dark green bits. But looking at the writing directly under magnification and strong light, I can't see them.

 

This might be different with Zhivago in a stub or italic nib, but I have tried it in a broad medium and in a flexible fine nib (making hairlines and swells to see if I could force some shading) and got no real variation.

[Goodwhiskers]

Hmmm, Noodler's Eternal Hunter Green shadows in Levenger Circa paper when written with a dip pen. Dip pens tend to write wetter than many fountain pens, right? Or is it just my newbie technique with dip pens?

[BillTheEditor]

Hmmm, Noodler's Eternal Hunter Green shadows in Levenger Circa paper when written with a dip pen. Dip pens tend to write wetter than many fountain pens, right? Or is it just my newbie technique with dip pens?

I try to avoid letting the dip pens lay down an excessive amount of ink. One reason I use the Jackson Stub is that it is pretty well-behaved and very similar in characteristics to its cousins, the Esterbrook fine and medium stub nibs.

 

Eternal Hunter Green shadowed a bit on Levenger Circa paper for me when I was using it in a Sonnet with a stub nib, and slightly less when in a Parker Sonnet with a medium nib. YMMV depending on the paper and the nib. It's still a good ink -- works well on checks, for example, with no/very little feathering or shadowing on my checks.

[BillTheEditor]

I'm interested in Noodler's Zhivago at the moment. Is it really a black that has green hints if you look *very* closely, or would green-black be a better description?

To answer the question, "What color is Zhivago, anyway?" I did a few quick squiggles with dip pens to see what kind of shading it produces.

 

The scan below has been color-corrected and is very close on my monitor to what I see on paper. The paper is one of Richard Binder's notepads, rather than the Circa.

 

With the Hunt 1-1/2, the only time you can see much variation is when the nib is nearly out of ink. The same is true of the Speedball A-0 nib, which holds a lot more ink and spreads it out into a much wider stroke.

 

I'd call this a pretty dramatic dark greenish-gray. Reminds me of sumi ink, in a way. If I were doing an ink drawing of an approaching Texas Blue Norther, I might use this for that part of the sky that always puts the fear of God into folks and starts them toward the storm cellar.

[Inkanthropist]

Thanks, Bill -- that's all extremely helpful. On reflection, I don't think that it's quite the colour I'm looking for. I want a bit more green to take the edge off the black. I've been playing around with a mixture based upon the Noodler's Black/PR Avacado recipe that someone posted here recently, but I've been increasing the amount of Black. I think that I'm getting closer to what, for me, is the perfect green-black. I just wish that I had a scanner so that I could post my results.

 

Thanks again

Neil

[wdyasq]

Bill,

 

One of my best friends is a traveling engineer from Michigan and moved to Texas. He heard me speak of the 'Blue Norther' and of its' properties. He lived here several years and pronounced my claims as bull manure.

 

He finally had the opportunity to see one. He was driving across the area below the Red River, Northwest of Fort Worth. He now has a healthy respect for Texas weather. The insurance company totaled the truck he was driving.

 

Ron

[BillTheEditor]

He finally had the opportunity to see one. He was driving across the area below the Red River, Northwest of Fort Worth. He now has a healthy respect for Texas weather. The insurance company totaled the truck he was driving.

I've had so many people who never lived here tell me I was full of it when I tried to describe one of those storms (or the springtime supercell thunderstorms, which are worse). A couple of them have since had the same experience your friend had and have apologized for doubting my veracity.

 

A lot of people with no particular religious feelings under other circumstances have found themselves praying to sweet Jesus when they realized what was coming in that dark line on the horizon. I've lived here all my life except for time in the Navy, and those things still scare the hell out of me.

[sonia_simone]

I think of Zhivago (and Aircorp Blue-Black, which looks really really similar to me) as Mahakala colors. They are black in most of my pens, but with complex undertones. "Soft black" was a good description.

 

I was told years and years ago by a friend that "in the old days" people mixed green ink in with black to make it flow better. I tried it out and liked the color, and green-black was my only ink color for a long time. Now I use Zhivago and ABB, which simplifies things.

[Roger]

I want a bit more green to take the edge off the black.

That's exactly what my problem was with Zhivago, Neil. The Green Marine does it for me, however, and is very nearly as water and fade proof as Zhivago.

 

A very wet line of it is dark greenish black, but with discernable green, while a dryer line yields more of a blackish green, like what I see in Bill's rendering of the Green Marine above.

 

To my eye, Green Marine is very much like Zhivago, but with more noticeable green than the Zhivago at similar line densities. But then, eyes are dfferent! :blink:

[Inkanthropist]

That's exactly what my problem was with Zhivago, Neil. The Green Marine does it for me, however, and is very nearly as water and fade proof as Zhivago.

 

A very wet line of it is dark greenish black, but with discernable green, while a dryer line yields more of a blackish green, like what I see in Bill's rendering of the Green Marine above.

 

To my eye, Green Marine is very much like Zhivago, but with more noticeable green than the Zhivago at similar line densities. But then, eyes are dfferent!  :blink:

Now this sounds more like it! I was too busy looking at the Zhivago sample to pay proper attention to the Green Marine :bonk: Unfortunately, neither of the two UK stockists of Noodler's carries this particular colour. Oh well, I'll just have to carry on mixing my own.

 

Thanks, Roger.

 

Neil

[smudgy]

Thank you for the samples. So, now I know that I'm really not missing anything with Zhivago, but I'm kind of liking that Herbin!

[BillTheEditor]

Thank you for the samples.  So, now I know that I'm really not missing anything with Zhivago, but I'm kind of liking that Herbin! 

That's why I did these -- glad it was useful to you.

Edited July 22, 2006 by BillTheEditor

[Margana]

Thanks for the review, Bill. I'm in the market for a green and your comparison really helped me narrow my search.

[KCat]

I've had so many people who never lived here tell me I was full of it when I tried to describe one of those storms (or the springtime supercell thunderstorms, which are worse). A couple of them have since had the same experience your friend had and have apologized for doubting my veracity.

now I know to say to Hubby - "Uh oh, the sky has that Zhivago color." instead of "Uh oh, the sky has that scary green color."

 

It's hard to describe that shade. Truly does send chills down the spine.

[DRP]

Let me confirm that shade as being a tornado sky. I'm a midwesterner and didn't really believe it until a couple of years ago when an F-4 tornado went over the house before landing a few blocks east and devouring an entire subdivision. We're not talking about trailers which aren't fastened to the ground. We're talking about large two and three story houses built for midwestern weather and midwestern winters. The tornado was over three blocks wide and just ripped them to pieces, sometimes leaving an interior staircase but no walls or one wall but nothing else.

 

Down the street from me were some healthy, mature oak trees that were just flipped to the ground. There was one tree that probably had a 14 foot root ball just sticking up in the air after the tree was grabbed out of the ground. I have photos to prove to friends that I'm not making this up.

 

The sky was that color. Zhivago color.

 

I'd use this ink to send letters to people who owe me money. Around here, they know what that color means.

 

David

[pvdiamon]

I have been using Zhivago, and would agree it is a "soft black" but yesterday I noticed that it has a brown/green tinge when I write in my Clairefontaine notebook. I think it looks less black on better paper!

[Stephen-I-am]

I'm starting to really like Noodlers Sequoia. It's a greener Zhivago.

 

Stephen