Pelikan nib PF signature?

[Daniel7]

Hi all,

 

I've been cleaning my Pelikans:

 

Pelikan M200 yellow Kaufhof: M steel nib

Pelikan M800: OBB NIB 18cts 2 tone *

Pelikan M400:M nib 14 cts 2 tone

Pelikan M200: F nib 18 cts 1 tone *

Pelikan M1000: m nib 18 cts 2 tone *

 

While checking with a magnifying glass, I noted on the right side of the three pens marked with a star a signature representing a circled PF.

The question is what does it stand for?

Is it only available on 18 cts Nibs?

Thank you for your answers.

Cheers,

 

 

Daniel

[diplomat]

Ciao Daniel.

 

PF stands for "Pelikan Fabrik" and marks the home made nibs differentiating from those made by Bock. The mark is independent from the type of nib.

 

Can you tell which year your Pelikans are from?

 

Regards,

[Daniel7]

Ciao Daniel.

 

PF stands for "Pelikan Fabrik" and marks the home made nibs differentiating from those made by Bock. The mark is independent from the type of nib.

 

Can you tell which year your Pelikans are from?

 

Regards,

 

 

Ciao,

 

the M800 was bought in 1996 in Luxemburg, but I know it was ordered directly to the fabrik in germany.

The M200 was received in 1998 as a company gift, as my boss knew I was pen addicted, he got it specially with 18 cts one tone nib, colleagues of mine got it with 14 cts.

The M1000 was bought in London in 2006, straight from the shop. I don't remember the name, but it's one of those specialist retailers that have pen shops over all UK.

Funny thing is the 3 are smoother than the M400 without the signature, it is of course very subjective, but the M400 is an excellent writer but not as smooth and wet as the other Three.

 

I notice that I answer the question; but did not event thank you yet :-)

so thank you for the information, I thought it was something like that, but as it was soooo obvious I could not believe it was that simpel.

Another question, does pelikan still produce the nibs by themself, or are they all made by Bock now?

Cheers,

 

 

Daniel

 

[diplomat]

You are welcome. The M1000 is an interesting case, I am curious to know whether is an old stock or a new model with the newly produced Pelikan nib. Mine was purchased in 2008 and has no pf mark.

 

 

does pelikan still produce the nibs by themself, or are they all made by Bock now?

 

That is a debated question (see https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/in...howtopic=78279), some have evidences that Pelikan restarted to insource nib production recently... we will see.

 

Ciao,

[MarkTrain]

I will add something that will complicate the PF issue. Just because you do not see a PF mark on a nib does not mean that it is not there. Here is a picture of a 600 nib in which the PF mark can be clearly seen on the bottom of the nib, a place where it is hidden by the collar.

 

Mark

Edited January 22, 2009 by MarkTrain

[diplomat]

Thank you Mark. That's interesting indeed.

 

Time to dismantle my nibs unit now... (kidding)

[Rick Propas]

On the M800 series nibs, you will find the PF at the right of the nib at the base, so no need to tear those pens apart.

[MarkTrain]

On the M800 series nibs, you will find the PF at the right of the nib at the base, so no need to tear those pens apart.

 

Rick

 

To make things a little more complicated, I believe a number of the so called "PF" 800 nibs may actually be something else. When Pelikan first started using 18 Kt nibs on the M600, M700, and M800 in the late 80's, the nibs were hallmarked with an oval mark on the lower right of the nib, but this mark is not the same as the PF mark seen on more modern nibs. As far as I can tell these nibs actually are marked EN not PF as seen in the photo below of a monotone 600 nib. The odd thing is that this mark is conspicuously absent on all 14 kt nibs produced in the same time period (French hallmarking?) . This includes the 14 Kt nibs that were first used on the M600, M700, and M800. Now I have no idea what EN stands for and hopefully someone out can answer this. It would also be helpful if others could confirm that their "PF" marked nibs are EN marked nibs.

 

Mark

 

Edited January 23, 2009 by MarkTrain

[diplomat]

I've just noted that my new M1000 (acquired in the last days of 2008) has the PF mark.

However, it's the only one out of my small collection which includes pens from the 80s, the 90s and the 00s to have such a mark.

 

Do we know approximately from when to when Pelikan outsourced the nibs to Bock and for which models?

My understanding is that now Pelikan has an internal facility to produce nibs, at least for the M1000 range.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Andrea

[Rick Propas]

Mark, yeah, I've noticed the EN and have no idea what it means. I'm guessing, but this is only a guess, that it has something to do with the European Economic Community. In May when I visit Pelikan I will try to remember to ask. Might help if you send me an e-mail at the beginning of the month.

 

As far as Bock vs Pelikan made nibs, my understanding is that when production is at full tilt, they outsource nibs to Bock, and when things are slow, they bring production back in. But bear in mind that regardless of where the nib is made it is made to the same plans on the same computer driven machinery, so in theory there should be no quality differences as a result of that particular variable.

[hari317]

Mark, yeah, I've noticed the EN and have no idea what it means. I'm guessing, but this is only a guess, that it has something to do with the European Economic Community. In May when I visit Pelikan I will try to remember to ask. Might help if you send me an e-mail at the beginning of the month.

 

This is what Pelikan told me when I asked them about the EN/BN mark: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/in...st&p=424484

 

 

[MarkTrain]

Thanks Rick and Hari,

 

So it looks like what I suspected that it is a French Hallmark. However, what EN stands for is muddled (in your email Pelikan claimed the first letter is a P, but it certainly doesn't look like it).

Whatever EN stands for, it is important as it designates the first generation of modern nibs (albeit only 18K). These nibs were lighter and more flexible than today's production and I consider them superior. For example, the 600 OM nib pictured above writes like a wet noodle but is too soft (18K) for me to write with. Unfortunately, first generation M250/M400 14k nibs are harder to identify (this is not the case for old-style M600 and M800 14k nibs as they were produced only one year, 1988 or 1989, forget which ). If one is good, one can spot the more gentle curving of the shoulders on early M250/M400 14k nibs, whereas later nibs had more acutely rounded shoulders which probably is why they are less flexible. Also, the earlier M250/M400 nibs had more tooth and some will complain they were scratchy.

 

Mark

Edited January 26, 2009 by MarkTrain

[eric47]

Photos of my 18K monotone.

 

Thanks to MarkTrain in another thread I found out about the Pelikan hallmarking which put to rest a longstanding mystery. He linked to this thread, which seems the better place to post some photos of this nib.

 

It's an 18K monotone nib (for which pen I don't remember) which I bought on closeout from Pelikan's ex-US distributor back in the 90s or max. early 2000s (the mind it's the first thing to go). Size-wise it's really close to an M400 (old style monotone) and M600 (two-tone) nibs I have. There may be some differences in the length of the feed mechanism -- but we're talking by a hair or two. But the gold part of the nib itself seems pretty much the same.

 

It arrived with some surface scratches and tines misaligned. Because it arrived somewhat thrashed, I thought for years that it was also dented. But thanks to MarkTrain's post and the photo in this thread, it looks like it a hallmark.

 

Certainly this 18K is rather flexible, make the M400 and M600 mentioned seem like S/S. Not quite the wet-noodle MarkTrain described, but it does lay down a wetter broaded line compared those other nibs (all my nibs are Fines).

 

Sorry about the flash on these shots, but the ones done with the flash help bring out the hallmark on mine really seems like a stamp -- notice how the flash hits the fin and around the hallmark. I included some crops of the hallmark itself. The lettering is clearer on the one w/o the flash (the first closeup), but the one with the flash (second closeup) helps bring out the detailing of the stamp.

 

Stamping's not very clean on mine. But I think it's 'E|N' as Mark mentioned and not 'PF'.

 

Eric

 

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2009 by eric47

[hari317]

Sorry for resurrecting this old thread. Now that my M800 Old style is back to the stables from its world tour, I took some photos of the E|N mark on it:

 

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii197/hari317/M800/IMG_2968_1.jpg

 

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii197/hari317/M800/IMG_2968.jpg

 

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii197/hari317/M800/IMG_2970.jpg

 

The cropped images are not clear even after my best efforts, The E looks more like a P? I dont know.

 

Cheers,

Hari

 

[diplomat]

Very clear imprint. Thank you for taking the time to post it.

 

And it is coherent with the reason Rick Propas gave for that imprint (see this post and the following discussion).

• 1 E|N is for a nib produced in France before the European Union took place (1992);
• 2 PF is for a nib produced in Swiss, a country not yet in the EU;

 

 

Cheers.

[Rick Propas]

I think this is the best understanding that we may come to, except that I think you mean "for" France" not "in" France.

 

Very clear imprint. Thank you for taking the time to post it.

 

And it is coherent with the reason Rick Propas gave for that imprint (see this post and the following discussion).

• 1 E|N is for a nib produced in France before the European Union took place (1992);
• 2 PF is for a nib produced in Swiss, a country not yet in the EU;

 

 

Cheers.