Esterbrook in Philadelphia

[Brian Anderson]

We all know Esterbrook was located in Camden NJ for many, many years until the end of their life when they moved to Cherry Hill, NJ. However, I have one reference that indicates Richard Esterbrook came to Philadelphia in 1858 to start his pen making business, and I have seen and recently won on ebay, a box of Falcon 048 nibs that clearly and prominently displays "Philadelphia" on the top of the box. Unfortunately, no other address information appears. All of Esterbrook's history as included in company catalogs states Camden, NJ as the place where it all started in 1858. I've searched through all my reference material, and have only found the one vague reference.

 

Anybody know when the switch to Camden took place? I know it's right across the river from Philadelphia, so it is possible the office was started in early 1858, then shortly later moved across the Delaware River into NJ the same year. If that's the case, then my box could be 1858 vintage only?

 

Curious-

Brian

[rhr]

Brian, the factory, or what was then known as the "works", was located in Camden, but the offices were located in Philadelpia at 403 Arch, corner of Cooper, just below Front, at least as late as 1863. Richard Esterbrook also lived in Camden at the time. I don't know exactly when the Philadelpia address was vacated, but your box might be from anywhere between 1858 and 1863. I'm not an Esterbrook expert, and I don't have many Esterbrook boxes, so perhaps an Esterbrook collector might chime in on this discussion to help you out.

 

The original name of the company was "R. Esterbrook & Co.", and was changed to "The Esterbrook Steel Pen Mfg. Co." by at least 1878. I do currently have a box with the "R. Esterbrook & Co." trademark and the date 1858 on the top, but I think this is quite common. It's the typical red box that they used for an extended period of time. On the bottom, however, is a label with the legend "The Esterbrook Steel Pen Mfg. Co. Successors, Camden, N. J.", so it dates from the time just after the name change. But who can tell how long they may have used that label. Does the label on your box use both company names? In that case your box could be from after 1878.

 

How about posting a link to an image of your box label with the Philadelphia address?

 

George.

[antoniosz]

Brian,

 

Irreleval to the question but a nice picture

The Esterbrook factory on Delaware and Copper avenue in Camden in 1928

http://www.dvrbs.com/Camden-Business/Esterbrook-1928-1.jpg

[Brian Anderson]

Nice picture Antonios. May I use that picture?

 

Best-

Brian

[Brian Anderson]

How about posting a link to an image of your box label with the Philadelphia address?

 

George.

George-

 

Thanks for the great info on the Philadelphia office. Here is a pic of the box.

 

http://www.esterbrook.net/images/boxes/dip/048pblue.jpg

 

I should have it shortly, but doesn't look like there's any other markings on the box.

 

Best-

Brian

 

 

 

 

 

 

edited: fixed broken link

Edited October 19, 2005 by Brian Anderson

[antoniosz]

Brian, I should have noted that the image is from

 

http://www.dvrbs.com/Camden-Business/Esterbrook-1928-1.jpg

 

 

AZ

[rhr]

Brian, now that's definitely an early Esterbrook Box! Nice find. I'd say it's probably from the 1860s or 70s, and possibly from the late 1850s. It has the earlier name only, so that puts it before the name change. Also, no red box, yet. You should definitely try to find a copy of Paul Hoban's book "The Fountain Pens Of Esterbrook", if you haven't already. That is, if you are going to keep calling yourself the "Esterbrook Nut".

 

And thanks for posting the great jpegs.

 

George.

[antoniosz]

George,

 

Brian is well past Hoban's book :-) although he may be modest to agree.

His knowledge about Esties is amazing :-)

 

AZ

[rhr]

Brian is well past Hoban's book, although he may be too modest to agree.

As witness most of his Ebay purchases. Thanks for the gentle reminder, Antonios. I should have guessed that he was an advanced collector.

 

But what I meant, and maybe I should have been more specific, was that Brian should look at page 2 of the Hoban book, because there is some very specific information there about the early history of the company. The Esterbrook Steel Pen Mfg. Co. was incorporated in 1860, but they continued to use the name R. Esterbrook & Co. as a trademark for quite some time after.

 

I hope we can see a new, expanded, comprehensive book on the Esterbrook Pen company someday from Brian, perhaps something in the vein of David Moak's Mabie Todd CD book. How's that for a challenge?

 

George.

[Brian Anderson]

Brian is well past Hoban's book, although he may be too modest to agree.

As witness most of his Ebay purchases. Thanks for the gentle reminder, Antonios. I should have guessed that he was an advanced collector.

 

But what I meant, and maybe I should have been more specific, was that Brian should look at page 2 of the Hoban book, because there is some very specific information there about the early history of the company. The Esterbrook Steel Pen Mfg. Co. was incorporated in 1860, but they continued to use the name R. Esterbrook & Co. as a trademark for quite some time after.

 

I hope we can see a new, expanded, comprehensive book on the Esterbrook Pen company someday from Brian, perhaps something in the vein of David Moak's Mabie Todd CD book. How's that for a challenge?

 

George.

I see I've developed some sort of reputation if people are checking my ebay purchases...

 

Hoban gives some good information, but it's sketchy in parts and does not mention Philadelphia to the best of my knowledge. I may have to cuddle up to my worn and tattered copy and re-read it again.

 

The book on CD concept is something I've been thinking of, but I'm really not where I need to be to even start puting this together. I'm slowly getting there, but work and life keep getting in the way, not to mention lack of funds, and the fact I'd have to be completely satisfied from an end user perspective before it even left my doors. Hopefully 2005 will be the year things start to happen. If present circumstances are any indication, good research will be taking place this next year. I'm somewhat of a perfectionist and OC when it comes to things like this, so it'll be good stuff when it happens.

 

Love to chat all day about this stuff, but for some wierd reason, work calls....

 

Best-

Brian

[rhr]

Oh goodie, another great book to look forward to, and not only that, but from another OC. ^_^

 

George.

[Brian Anderson]

I don't know exactly when the Philadelpia address was vacated, but your box might be from anywhere between 1858 and 1863.

Update on the mysterious box...

 

Just received it yesterday in the mail, and after careful analysis of this and other similar marked Philadelphia boxes, this appears to be pre-Trademark. I can't find any evidence of any Esterbrook trademark that indicates first use in commerce before 1860, so I'd have to speculate this is an 1858 or 1859 box. Other similar boxes indicate not only multiple addresses, but also the addition of "Trademark" in the statement on the back of the box, "The fac-smilie of our signature is sufficient security against imitation" vs. "The facsimile signature (our Trade-Mark) is sufficient security against imitation"

 

So there it is. One of the first US boxes ever made. Now I'm off to start collecting boxes, then off to find examples of pre-1858 Canadian steel pens. Keith, you listenin'??

 

Best-

Brian

[Keith with a capital K]

I'm listening and always make it a point to keep an eye out for all things Esterbrook when I am on safari here knowing that these are things that you are looking for. I found an interesting clip Esterbrook slip clip that I will be sending your way and I suspect it originally belonged to a pencil.

 

George (rhr) could also be a great resource as he has great connections (he seems to know everyone) and also lives here in the great white north.

 

Cheers!

[Gerry]

Keith,

 

Mebby you shouldn't funnel *everything* Brian's way - remember Elaine and Gerry are Esterbrook fans as well <_<

 

Gerry

[rhr]

Just received it yesterday in the mail, and after careful analysis of this and other similar marked Philadelphia boxes, this appears to be pre-Trademark.  I can't find any evidence of any Esterbrook trademark that indicates first use in commerce before 1860...

Brian,

 

The first US trademark wasn't issued until 1870, and the first Esterbrook TMs, all 15 of them, weren't issued until 1878. When you say that this box appears to be "pre-trademark", thus dating it before 1860, don't you mean to say "pre-incorporation"? I'm not questioning your dating of the box before 1860, just quibbling about words. Pre-trademark is anything before 1878, and you mean to say that the box is something before 1860, or pre-incorporation. Do you have any evidence of any trademarks earlier than 1878? I can't make any sense of Hoban's statement that, "The Esterbrook trademark is, in fact, the fifth oldest in the United States".

 

By the way, Esterbrook trademark no. 63, 490 (issued in 1907 for the word "Esterbrook" used by itself) claims that the name was first used in commerce in 1860, about the time of the incorporation. But that doesn't mean that they didn't use the script logo before 1860 as an unofficial, pre-incorporation, pre-trademark-era name, or mark.

 

George.

[Brian Anderson]

The first US trademark wasn't issued until 1870, and the first Esterbrook TMs, all 15 of them, weren't issued until 1878. When you say that this box appears to be "pre-trademark", thus dating it before 1860, don't you mean to say "pre-incorporation"? I'm not questioning your dating of the box before 1860, just quibbling about words. Pre-trademark is anything before 1878, and you mean to say that the box is something before 1860, or pre-incorporation. Do you have any evidence of any trademarks earlier than 1878? I can't make any sense of Hoban's statement that, "The Esterbrook trademark is, in fact, the fifth oldest in the United States".

 

By the way, Esterbrook trademark no. 63, 490 (issued in 1907 for the word "Esterbrook" used by itself) claims that the name was first used in commerce in 1860, about the time of the incorporation. But that doesn't mean that they didn't use the script logo before 1860 as an unofficial, pre-incorporation, pre-trademark-era name, or mark.

George-

 

finally done with christmas, now back to pens...

 

I don't have any trademarks before 63490, and used that as a basis (perhaps incorrectly) for dating the box. Where did you find trademarks before that date? I've checked the USPTO website and the TESS database and came up with many, but most of them were 1950's trademarks, with the occasional early mark.

 

I guess I incorrectly assumed that if they first used a trademark in 1860 that this box pre-dated it. Perhaps since this box does show the signature, and references "R. Esterbrook + Co." that that is actually defined as "in Use", therefore making the box no earlier than 1860, but before 1878, although heavily leaning towards the earlier date due to no other location reference other than Philadelphia.

 

The search continues I suppose.

 

Best-

Brian

[rhr]

Hi Brian,

 

You wrote,

 

"finally done with christmas, now back to pens..."

 

Holidays always get in the way of research. Most facilities close down, and all you're left with are the online databases, which are sometimes inadequate. Let me explain.

 

"I don't have any trademarks before 63490...Where did you find trademarks before that date?...I've checked the USPTO website and the TESS database and came up with many, but most of them were 1950's trademarks, with the occasional early mark."

 

There are about 50 to 55 Esterbrook trademarks before 63,490, which dates from 1907, and they date back to 1878. I found them on my own using non-USPTO sources, because the only trademarks on the USPTO website are the ones that are renewed and still alive. The Kidd patent book has none of these pre-1907 trademarks, either.

 

I think it's time to take this discussion backchannel, because with it's lists of dead numbers that aren't viewable online, it's going to get a little boring for those who aren't interested. How serious are you about doing your book? If you're just doing casual research as a collector, I can teach you how to retrieve those numbers on your own. It's very fulfilling, but time consuming. If you're promising that there is definitely going to be a book at the end of your research, then perhaps I can help you with the actual numbers. The Kidd book trademarks stop in 1923, so I could use the ones that you have that go into the 1950s. Perhaps we can do an exchange.

 

Sincerely,

 

George.

 

P.S. Your dating of the nib box is probably pretty accurate, though I would extend the date range from 1858 to at least 1863, the last year for which I have been able to find that Philadelphia address in the business directories. The Camden factory appears about that time, around 1863-64.

Edited December 30, 2004 by rhr

[antoniosz]

Brian (and other Esterbrook-philes), the act of incorporation of Esterbrook Steel Pen Manufacturing Co. is referenced in

Acts of the Legislature of the State of New Jersey, Published 1867. I am not sure if this means that it occured in 1867 but it will be worth digging for this book in a local library (which I promise to do "soon").

[WillAdams]

Brian, if you'd like some help w/ the book-on-CD let me know, I did the last CD-ROM edition of Combat Fleets of the World.

 

William