Bloody Bleeding Journals

[tooloose-letrek]

Until recently, I used the Moleskine journal. I liked it aesthetically but had trouble with the bloody pages bleeding. It's really not a fine quality paper. I know you probably won't believe this (but it's true)...a person I do not know sent me a Letts of London Journal in the mail, out of nowhere. I was shocked...but when I recovered, I decided to try it. The paper is wonderful and doesn't bleed at all.

 

Now I have to find a good source for more of these. I was informed that Letts of London can discontinue models with little (or no) notice.

 

If there are any Moleskine aficianados out there, I'm curious...do you write on both sides of the sheet? I do and maybe that's the problem...If I only did one side, I wouldn't have that problem and I could fill more books (just in case I can't find the Letts I seek.)

 

Curious if any of you blokes have had this sort of problem.

[jsparks]

I have a Moleskine that I am using now. I really like the Moleskine design, but don't like the paper. I find that some inks work fine without bleeding and I can write on both sides of the paper and others bleed too much to be usable. Of inks I've tried, Noodlers Black, Aurora Blue, Waterman Florida Blue, Sheaffer blue and Lamy Blue-black work fine (Noodlers Black is probably the best). I have a friend who is using Waterman Black with no problems. None of the Private Reserve inks that I've tried are very usable. All other Noodlers inks that I've tried besides black bleed too.

 

I like to be able to use any ink I want, so I don't think I will be getting any more Moleskine journals. I'd like to find one that is just like the Moleskine with better paper.

 

John

[tooloose-letrek]

Thanks for this information.

 

It's amazing that an ink can have that much affect, and act so differently on diff. papers. I use Aurora Noir and PR Velvet Black. I'd like to try some other inks, like Noodlers (I've heard so much about this ink, particularly the problems with certain pens) but they are not available where I live and I refuse to spend $3 shipping for a bottle.

 

May I ask with what nib you typically write? I favor the F and MF.

 

The paper in the Letts London is wonderful. I have a Miquelrius notebook but the color coded edges are annoying.

 

Damn, it's too bad Moleskine doesn't offer a premium edition with the FP in mind!

[djahughes]

Thanks for this information.

 

It's amazing that an ink can have that much affect, and act so differently on diff. papers. I use Aurora Noir and PR Velvet Black. I'd like to try some other inks, like Noodlers (I've heard so much about this ink, particularly the problems with certain pens) but they are not available where I live and I refuse to spend $3 shipping for a bottle.

 

May I ask with what nib you typically write? I favor the F and MF.

 

The paper in the Letts London is wonderful. I have a Miquelrius notebook but the color coded edges are annoying.

 

Damn, it's too bad Moleskine doesn't offer a premium edition with the FP in mind!

Hell I thought all Moleskine's were 'Premium', they're certainly priced that way.

 

In the UK we have a stationery chain called Paperchase who until recently made an improved Moleskine style pocket notebook; slightly larger pages, much better paper and cheaper to boot. Sadly they seem to be no longer available.

 

At the end of the day it's the design of the Moleskine we like right? So if we could buy the same design but with better paper we'd be happy. I don't understand why nobody else is producing similar but better vesions. Moleskine have no claim to the design. Modus, the manufacturers, didn't start producing them until the 90s ( I think). I've seen Van Gogh's notebooks and they ain't Moleskine.

 

However, if you are buying Moleskine notebooks for their mystical properties then only Moleskine will do...

[Stompy]

I am a big fan of Moleskines, and I much prefer to use a fountain pen in one than a ballpoint.

 

I like them for their convenient size, hardcovers and reasonable paper. I'm fully aware that Hemingway, Matisse, and Van Gogh never used what are now called Moleskines.

 

I've found that it isn't so much the ink, as the pen and ink combinations that determine the level of bleedthrough, and what works for me might not work for you. However, Noodlers Black through a fine point snorkel, and Aurora blue through a semi-flex Mabie Todd can't be seen on the other side at all. There is a little show through with other pens, but to an acceptable level.

 

If you want really fountain pen friendly paper, try Clairfontaine notebooks. Although mine are cheaper than Moleskines, they aren't as convenient. Yes, the ink doesn't show through, but it doesn't dry as quickly either. The pages are thicker, so you get fewer of them in a notebook, and the smooth, hard surface isn't as pleasant to write on. And, when cut down to pocket notebook size, the pages are stiffer than I like.

 

I like Clairfontaine paper in larger sized notepads, but for a carry around writing solution you can't beat a pocket moleskine, with about a dozen index cards tucked into the back cover and a slim stack of post-its stuck inside the front cover. Pair it up with a nice fountain pen and/or a ballpoint and you're set. IMHO.

 

Use whatever is comfortable, I say. My wet writing Cross medium nib works fine in my Moleksine Journal when I use a dry ink such as MB Bordeaux, but if someone else tried it with a dry writing fine point, it would be thin and washed out. You know your pen and ink combinations best and it doesn't hurt to try.

 

And if that doesn't work, try a different notebook.

[djahughes]

I agree,

 

I used to use Noodlers Black when I used Moleskine notebooks - before the cult grew up.

 

However, I didn't liek having to limit my choce of ink to suit a single notebook when it's the notebook not the ink that is at fault. That of course is my personal preference.

 

If you do want to use Moleskine there is no better ink than Noodlers Black - it's the bonding with teh cellulose thing.

[roisnoir]

The only inks I've had a problem with in my moleskine were all in wet writers or very broad nibbed pens. When I switched to a finer or drier nib, the bleedthrough on the worst offenders was minimized.

 

(The worst offenders being Montblanc Loveletter and PR's Orange Crush.)

 

With some inks, I can see that the other side of the page has been written on, but I can't read what it says. (Herbin's Vert Olive seems to be the baddie of the current bunch.)

 

Noodler's black IS perfect in my 'skine. Though PR's Tanzenite behaves equally well.

[scribble]

Everything has its time and place. Moleskines too. I've used many different notebooks, sketchbooks, journals, cloth covered, cardboard, etc. The inexpensive and thin paper is fine for me. It makes the book thin. The butt cut cover makes it more portable. The covers don't fray or pill. I don't mind a bit of bleed. It is a trade off. There are nice heavy thick leather bound jobs out there for a more formal output, but the Moleskine is still the best knockaround notebook for me most of the time.

 

Thin paper will bleed.

 

If you want to use a bleedproof Moleskine, get one of the sketchbooks instead.

[tooloose-letrek]

I do like the wholeMoleskine Mystique, even if I'm creating it in my own mind. The size is so perfect for me, and snapping that band around the book after a writing session just tops it off perfectly. The Letts of London I am now working has very nice paper, but the cushion-y cover is a major turn-off for me.

 

What an odd situation, trying to find the right pen/ink combo to suit the notebook instead of the other way around.

 

Damnit, unfortunately I just missed the local annual pen show in my area! I was caught up in important personal business, I didn't even know about it. That would have been a perfect situation to pick up a bottle of Noodler's.

 

When I used my Pelikan M400, fine nib with Aurora black, the bleeding was so severe, I had trouble writing/reading on the reverse side.

 

Noodler's seems to have a cult following, doesn't it? There are those who hate it, and then there are the devotees.

[Chris]

I have seen these Moleskine notebooks and thought they seemed well-designed, but if the ink bleeds through they fail in one of the fundamental requirements of a notebook. Therefore, I'll not buy one. I write on the paper, therefore the paper has to be right.

 

The Paperchase chain has branches all over the place - my easiest to get to is at Victoria station - but the stock of notebooks/journals varies from week to week and I do not know how consistent the quality of their product is when the actual product seems to change. They must have a very fast turnover of stock.

 

However, there was an Italian journal in Paperchase that looked worth trying (was not cheap!), but the queue was long and my time was short - had a train to catch. Maybe next time.

 

I have used hardback notebooks by Ryman with no problems and Letts diaries are good too.

 

Chris

[djahughes]

Victoria is my closest also well that and Euston as that is where I arrive.

 

I know what you mean about their stock; it's why I'm reluctant to get used to anything of theirs.

 

Is the notebook you were looking at the one with the elsatic band horizontally around the centre and a leather cover? I think they look good.

[Stompy]

The ones from Paperchase are produced for them by an Italian company that produces the Ciak journals.

 

The paper is better than Moleskines, and holds up to FP use, but the size (they are a thicker and a little larger than Moleskines) and soft covers make them better suited to carrying in a bag briefcase, than a pocket.

 

I got mine off ebay from Murky. I recommend the product and the seller.

[Chris]

That sounds like the one - leather cover (real?) and elastic and about £9 I think. Certainly Italian but not all the ones had ruled pages.

 

With one positive endorsement perhaps I'll indulge - good place to try out all these different inks!

 

I did get a Paperchase brand notebook A5 size with a hard cloth cover as a diary for my fishing trips. Not started it yet.

 

I also bought a nice-looking notebook from WH Smith - leatherette-type cover and elastic round the middle. Very disappointing as the paper was not as good as it felt and ink bled through like it wanted to be somewhere else. Can only use one side of the paper and even then there are some ink spots on the page underneath.

 

Chris

[scribble]

In defense of Moleskine, they do have a version with thicker paper intended for use with fountain pen and other media:

 

The pocket sized Moleskine sketchbook is great for impromptu drawings and sketches, with heavy stock pages of top quality Italian-made paper perfect for fountain pen, pencil, charcoal, watercolor, tempera, acrylic, etc.

 

The lined and grid notebooks are really not designed for that purpose. The paper is of high quality but it is purposely thin to make many sheets available without bulk. Lets face it, most people use ballpens. But these can be used with the watery ink pen too if you just take the time and trouble to find the right pen/ink combination, not an unsurmountable task for the afficianado with a good collection.

 

You would be very unlikely to find another notebook with such thin paper in it that would work as well as these do with waterbased inks.

[southpaw]

I see many comments on various journals that are supposed to be good - Paperchase/Ciak, various comments on Moleskine. What's a good one that doesn't suffer from bleedthrough that's easy to get in the US and doesn't cost an arm and a leg? Ciak is UK and is $$$ to get here, unless someone knows a good source. TIA

[Velma]

I have liked the Letts of London books, such as the one I think Too-Loose is writing about. My preference is for dry-write pens, so I can get away with lighter paper most of the time, but Clairfontaine books work really well; if only they had better binding and narrower rulings.

 

If there is a Japanese stationery store near you, you should investigate the notebooks there.

[Guest Denis Richard]

Hi SP,

 

Paperchase has litteraly invaded all Borders store since last year. In most of their stores around here, Moleskine has been dropped, and Paperchase products occupy very consistent portion of their stationery section. They are also cheaper than Moleskine.

 

Still at Borders, there is a line of even cheaper notebook and diaries made in Germany, that I have not tried yet either, but that seem to be good candidates, just by the feel of the paper.

[Titivillus]

Until recently, I used the Moleskine journal.  I liked it aesthetically but had trouble with the bloody pages bleeding.  It's really not a fine quality paper....

Here is a test that I did writing with several different pens on a moleskine page and then taking a pic of the front and back. While some of the ink & pen combinations did bleed there are other papers that give the same. As for the sketch books they have a much smaller number of pages and I found the sizing on the sheets not all that condusive to FP ink.

 

Kurt H

 

 

 

http://webpages.charter.net/tytyvyllus/100_2417.JPG

[southpaw]

Hi SP,

 

Paperchase has litteraly invaded all Borders store since last year. In most of their stores around here, Moleskine has been dropped, and Paperchase products occupy very consistent portion of their stationery section. They are also cheaper than Moleskine.

 

Still at Borders, there is a line of even cheaper notebook and diaries made in Germany, that I have not tried yet either, but that seem to be good candidates, just by the feel of the paper.

I checked their website and, believe it or not, there are 2 stores within an hour - in Raleigh . I then checked their website to see if they had Paperchase journals. If they do, it's not listed. They've got Paperblanks Book Company journals, but no Paperchase.

 

Kurt - thanks for the tests results. Great use of standards. Well done!

[southpaw]

I'm gonna get in trouble for this one. I was looking for the Paperchase journals on Borders website, and they partner with Amazon for their web stuff. I found the following items below and immediately thought, "Cool. We could get FPN journals! ." Take a look and see if anyone's willing to bite. Might be a neat addition to our memorabilia.

 

Forever Leather Journal

 

Leather Classic Journal

 

Of course, we'd have to test the paper and make sure it was FP friendly. Just an idea.