How not to remove a Vacumatic Pellet

[SMG]

Ok, I received this wonderful double jewel 1948 Black Parker 51 from a friend of mine for a restoration job for him. It is a very nice pen, but had some surface scratches and what not.

 

I asked him if it had had a new diaphragm installed since he acquired it, and he did not know. I suggested that as a matter of course I always change them out if I don't know when it was replaced or by whom. He said that I should probably do it then as he intends to use the pen.

 

Ok, I took the collector out and noticed that the filler was a little balky, first clue that something was wrong. Yup, wrong size diaphragm was installed, they used the one for a regular sized Vac. Tsk Tsk Tsk!

 

Then I pulled the filler and saw this when I removed the old wrong sized diaphragm.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b319/Ragnarok69/DSC_7789.jpg

Yup, someone decided to PRY the pellet out last time. Chipped the cup but good. There were sharp edges everywhere in there. I had to smooth them out with a small riffle file.

 

Man of man that ticks me off! :bonk:

 

If you don't know what you are doing, either don't freaking work on these pens, or read the instructions again.

 

It is so easy to remove the pellet without damaging the pellet cup, why would you do what some imbicile did above. The pry marks show where the tool, probably a dental pick, was used to get under the pellet and pry up. When the pellet and tool took up the space in the cup, it blew out the side and compressed the other lip with a pretty decent divot. Either heat a pin and puncture the pellet and let it cool, or my preferred method, use a burr on a dremel to melt into the pellet. You can then pull it out without damaging the cup. Sheesh!

 

PO'd

SG

[Richard]

Using a Dremel is the way I describe the process in my site's diaphragm replacement instructions. I was really surprised to read in one of Victor Chen's technical articles in the PENnant that he recommended prying the pellet out with a dental pick. It can get even worse than just making divots; some pellet pockets have become frangible over the years, and prying at one can sometimes cause the whole "socket" part of the pocket to explode into chips, leaving the base of the pocket attached to the plunger. I can make new pellet pockets, but I don't like it much.

[danielfalgerho]

:blink:

Since Richard doesn't like to make pellet cups, I'll put in my two cents' worth:

--a good pellet cup from a bad filler unit can be substituted after pulling the ruined cup (or crushing it if necessary) Sometimes a good press fit can be obtained, if not a touch of 30 minute epoxy is needed. I used an alligator clip to keep the spring off the cup overnight. Works for me.

--as for removal I make a tiny hook out of a sewing needle with one side of the eye ground off with a cut off wheel on a Dremel tool: this make a hook that does NOT make contact with the cup. Bring it against the pellet, heat the gizmo until it sinks into the pellet, let it cool and pull. Sticking the reworked needle in a piece of hardwood doel makes it easy to handle. Works for me.

It may also make it easier for a camel to go through the eye of the needle but I have'nt tested it.

I find the Dremel tool approach to pellet removal too scary but the again Richard is a better man than I am. I have the nibs to prove it.

:meow:

Edited January 28, 2007 by danielfalgerho

[Ron Z]

Sorry, I have to side with Richard on this one. I do a lot of vacs, as a matter of fact I do a significant portion of David Isaacson's vacs and you know how many he has and sells!

 

Using anything but a Dremel is a really good way to risk breaking the pellet cup. You may be lucky and get away with a hot pin, or maybe a dental pick. But some of the cups are so fragile that they break if you look at them sideways. Some don't even make it out of the pen. Pulling the pellet cup off of a damaged filler to put on another often doesn't work either - the filler survives, the pellet cup breaks in the process. Been there.

 

A Dremel breaks up the pellet, or fuses it to the burr so that you can pull it out. You're much more likely to successfully remove the pellet when you use one.

[mmoncur]

I think I got lucky when I replaced the diaphragm on my first Vac - I used a paper clip heated with a cigarette lighter.

 

Next time I'll pull out the dremel. Does anyone know which size burr I should use?

[SMG]

Really small! :roflmho:

 

I use the small carbide burr that Dremel sells in a single pack. The diameter of the burr itself is about 1.5mm or so. It has to be small enough to enter into the cup without touching the lip at the opening.

 

Thanks to Richard and Ron for supporting me on this one. I read the dremel tool trick on Richards site about 18 months ago and have used it exclusively on about 60 vacs that I have restored since then.

 

Cheers,

SG

[George]

Interesting, I had a parker 51 vac that had the exact same problem. I actually use a tooth pick- and no damage... so far :ph34r:

[Rabbi Zvi Solomons]

I have been using a dental pick or a pin - a cold pin is fine for old and frangible pellets, but no good for anything else.

But how many times does one come up with a pen which someone else has tried to fix or replace the vac sac and screwed up. I must have five or six. I tried using plastic filler to build up a pocket - kinda works but aesthetically not very good.

What's a Dremel (for us English speakers in England)? I will send you some grouting in return (well, perhaps not).

Regards,

 

Rabbi Zvi.

[Gerry]

It's also called a rotary tool and motor tool, although either are often misnomers. There are other types of rotary tools, but most often what is meant is along the lines of what is seen on the company's web site... http://www.dremel.com/en-us/tools/tool-category.htm?H=188091

 

And the UK (Europe) site: http://www.dremeleurope.com/gb/en/start/index.html

 

Regards,

 

Gerry

[smbaugh]

  SMG said:

Man oh man that ticks me off! :bonk:

If I have to rank peeves, PLIERS marks on shells are what really gets me...

 

SmB

[danielfalgerho]

It's hard to disagrees with the high priests but so far I've found the since the pellet has to be small enough to go in, it should be small enough to come out, provided of course the residual diaphragm rubber has been carefully removed - with a sharp pin or a dental pick (no prying and no metal forced between pellet and cup).

But for my next pellet removal, I'm trying the Dremel method. It seems like a very delicate operation but less likely to damage the cup. And prob'ly faster.

Thank you, O wise ones!

Edited January 31, 2007 by danielfalgerho

[Richard]

  danielfalgerho said:

It's hard to disagrees with the high priests but so far I've found the since the pellet has to small enough to go in, it should be small enough to come out, provided of course the residual diaphragm rubber has been carefully removed...

What you're overlooking is that the original pellet did NOT go in. At least it did not go into the pocket through the hole that is there now. The pocket's bore was originally cylindrical. The pellet and diaphragm were inserted, and then the pocket was heated to soften the material and swaged down to reduce the size of the hole. This was not a perfectly consistent process; the hole diameter varies in size, and in order to install a new diaphragm it is sometimes necessary to open up the hole a little. I do this with a heat gun and a length of brass rod the proper diameter, gently heating the pocket until the rod's hemispherical end will just slip in.

 

Also, for the record, not all pellets are plastic. You will occasionally encounter a rubber pellet, and sticking a hot needle into it won't work. Break out the Dremel, boys, it's the only way.

[OldGriz]

I need to say something here.... and I don't mean to be insulting to anyone, so please don't take it that way...

We are fortunate to have 2 of the finest restorers in the industry as members of this forum. Even more so we are lucky that they have no problems sharing their restoration techniques with us.

I consider myself fortunate to know both of them personally and even more fortunate to have been able to sit down watch them work and pester them with questions that they have freely answered. Reading the answer they give is fantastic, watching them work is even better.

 

SO, why is that when they give us their expertise and tell us how to do a repair properly, so many people (who have no where near the experience) chime in and say "Well I do it this way and it works for me." Yes, it may work for you, 1,2 or even 3 times... but is it the way it should be done... have you just been real lucky.

I started removing Vac pellets using a hot dental pick and even as careful as I was did some damage to the mouth of a pocket or two... I switched to the rotary tool and have only screwed up one pocket and that was when my daughter snuck up behind me and startled me while I was doing it...

Basically, I think what I am saying is, when the big dogs bark, listen.

If I have insulted anyone, accept my apology, it was not my intention.

[kirchh]

  Richard said:

What you're overlooking is that the original pellet did NOT go in. At least it did not go into the pocket through the hole that is there now. The pocket's bore was originally cylindrical. The pellet and diaphragm were inserted, and then the pocket was heated to soften the material and swaged down to reduce the size of the hole.

I disagree. I refer you to US patent 1,985,643, which most closely matches the Vacumatic filler in its well-known form:

[Radman]

  OldGriz said:

I need to say something here.... and I don't mean to be insulting to anyone, so please don't take it that way...

We are fortunate to have 2 of the finest restorers in the industry as members of this forum.  Even more so we are lucky that they have no problems sharing their restoration techniques with us.

I consider myself fortunate to know both of them personally and even more fortunate to have been able to sit down watch them work and pester them with questions that they have freely answered.  Reading the answer they give is fantastic, watching them work is even better.

 

SO, why is that when they give us their expertise and tell us how to do a repair properly, so many people (who have no where near the experience) chime in and say "Well I do it this way and it works for me."  Yes, it may work for you, 1,2 or even 3 times... but is it the way it should be done... have you just been real lucky.

I started removing Vac pellets using a hot dental pick and even as careful as I was did some damage to the mouth of a pocket or two... I switched to the rotary tool and have only screwed up one pocket and that was when my daughter snuck up behind me and startled me while I was doing it...

Basically, I think what I am saying is, when the big dogs bark, listen.

If I have insulted anyone, accept my apology, it was not my intention.

Bravo!

[Kelly G]

  OldGriz said:

Even more so we are lucky that they have no problems sharing their restoration techniques with us.

 

Reading the answer they give is fantastic, watching them work is even better.

 

Basically, I think what I am saying is, when the big dogs bark, listen.

I have to agree with Tom on this one. I've been known to offer my advice/solution to a posed question when no one else is responding - usually suggesting that I'm certainly not an expert - just a "hack amateur newbie" repairer of my own pens. I'm grateful when Richard or Ron chime in with additional or better advice - they fix more pens in a week than I'll fix in a year, maybe two. You always learn more by listening (or watching) than by talking.

 

I'm also not saying that Ron, Richard, or anyone else is always right - we all can be wrong, some of us more than others. But I'll also say that I've never seen Richard nor Ron not admit their mistake or acknowledge a better method that someone has discovered. We are all learning our way through life!

 

And if you've insulted anyone - they are probably not all that interested in learning anything anyway; their loss.

[kirchh]

  OldGriz said:

I switched to the rotary tool and have only screwed up one pocket and that was when my daughter snuck up behind me and startled me while I was doing it...

When I need to destroy a pellet with a burr, I use a fixture I made that constrains the burr both radially and axially so that it cannot wander and nick the pocket's circumference or bottom. The filler screws into the fixture which immobilizes and centers the pellet pocket, and the burr's shaft travels in a guide hole. The burr is outfitted with a collar that acts as a depth stop. The cutaway allows visual monitoring and the clearing of debris.

 

Here's a picture of the tool.

 

--Daniel

Edited January 31, 2007 by kirchh

[kirchh]

Here's the tool described above with a filler and burr in place and ready to use.

 

--Daniel

[DWL]

Thats just so incredibly awesome! I WANT ONE!!!

 

You da' MAN my friend!

 

Dennis

[OldGriz]

  kirchh said:

Here's the tool described above with a filler and burr in place and ready to use.

 

--Daniel

Daniel,

You have waaaaaaaaayyyy tooo much time on your hands

But I love to see the new neat tools you come up with...