Lubing The Piston Of My 149

[jigesh]

Those who found this and the "Nib Assembly" posts by Hari, may find the attached PDF a convenient "cut & paste" compilation for future reference.

 

It's important to remember that getting a professional service is not expensive at all compared to what can potentially happen via the DIY route. So, I would use the attachment as a "curiosity-quencher cola" only.

Taking_Apart_146_Nib_Piston_Assemblies.pdf

[niksch]

It's important to remember that getting a professional service is not expensive at all compared to what can potentially happen via the DIY route. So, I would use the attachment as a "curiosity-quencher cola" only.

 

Define professional service.

[jigesh]

It's important to remember that getting a professional service is not expensive at all compared to what can potentially happen via the DIY route. So, I would use the attachment as a "curiosity-quencher cola" only.

 

Define professional service.

 

The purpose of stating that was to avoid wide-spread DIY repairs which may or may not go well; kind of a disclaimer. In that context, "professional service" meant service by someone who has done similar work in past to the satisfaction of the person reqesting such service.

[niksch]

The purpose of stating that was to avoid wide-spread DIY repairs which may or may not go well; kind of a disclaimer. In that context, "professional service" meant service by someone who has done similar work in past to the satisfaction of the person reqesting such service.

 

Wow. Thank you. I wish you'd been around about eight years ago.

[meiers]

I love the pictures.

 

 

[hari317]

Notes on adjusting the stroke length of the piston rod:

The modern MB piston filler assy consists of four components:

• 
   
  
• Filler Cone with spindle attached
  
• Anti Rotation Connector: either full brass or brass with plastic insert
  
• Piston rod with elastomer seal at the end, the elastomer seal can be removed/replaced.
  
• Filler trim ring washer, a loose fit in the 149s.
  

 

Operation:

 

• 
   
  
• The piston rod has long length wise projections on its sides and rides in the matching grooves inside the connector, this arrangement prevents a sprial movement of the piston rod, only axial movement is allowed.
  
• The filler cone screws on to the connector, while it screws on, the spindle attached to the cone rotates along with it.
  
• The piston rod has threads on the inner surface(acts like a long nut), the spindle acts like the bolt.
  
• As the filler cone is rotated, the spindle rotates alongwith it, and hence pulls in the piston rod axially, the connector prevents rotation of the piston rod allowing only an up-down movement.
   
   
  

Stroke length adjustment:

 

• 
   
  
• Separate the filler into the four main components.
  
• First screw in the filler cone onto the connector fully to check it goes in and out correctly, now back off around 4mm from the full stop position.
  
• Place the filler Trim ring washer.
  
• Now insert the piston rod from the bottom of the connector, it will contact the spindle, now screw in the filler cone so that the spindle and the rod engage, the piston will be pulled up into the connector. Gently try to screw the filler down fully. You may or may not be able to screw it in fully, and this is what we have to adjust. The game here is to alter the point at which the spindle and the rod engage so that you are able to screw the filler cone in fully.
  
• If you are unable to screw the filler cone in fully, it means that you have to leave lesser gap from the 4mm that i mentioned previously. If you leave too little gap, you will find that the piston seal sticks out too much in the fully retracted position thus compromising the ink storage capability.
  
• the optimum is acheived when the filler cone is able to be screwed in fully and in this position the piston seal sticks out about 7-10mm from the bottom of the connector.
  
• Now backoff the filler cone to leave sufficient gap to just slide in the filler wrench, insert the wrench pengs into the slots in the filler, tighten down the filler cone so that the wrench is snugly held.
  
• Holding the wrench+filler assembly, thread in the barrel by feel, taking care.
  
• Job done! remove the wrench, check filler smoothness and operation.
   
  

 

I hope this is useful.

 

Regards,

Hari

[mr goldfink]

A really helpful DIY guide Hari. Thanks for sharing.

[Pen Nut]

Hari,

 

Very helpful and thank you very much for posting.

 

Regards my friend,

 

Ian.

 

Operation:

 

 

The piston rod has long length wise projections on its sides and rides in the matching grooves inside the connector, this arrangement prevents a sprial movement of the piston rod, only axial movement is allowed.

 

The filler cone screws on to the connector, while it screws on, the spindle attached to the cone rotates along with it.

 

The piston rod has threads on the inner surface(acts like a long nut), the spindle acts like the bolt.

 

As the filler cone is rotated, the spindle rotates alongwith it, and hence pulls in the piston rod axially, the connector prevents rotation of the piston rod allowing only an up-down movement.

 

Stroke length adjustment:

 

 

Separate the filler into the four main components.

 

First screw in the filler cone onto the connector fully to check it goes in and out correctly, now back off around 4mm from the full stop position.

 

Place the filler Trim ring washer.

 

Now insert the piston rod from the bottom of the connector, it will contact the spindle, now screw in the filler cone so that the spindle and the rod engage, the piston will be pulled up into the connector. Gently try to screw the filler down fully. You may or may not be able to screw it in fully, and this is what we have to adjust. The game here is to alter the point at which the spindle and the rod engage so that you are able to screw the filler cone in fully.

 

If you are unable to screw the filler cone in fully, it means that you have to leave lesser gap from the 4mm that i mentioned previously. If you leave too little gap, you will find that the piston seal sticks out too much in the fully retracted position thus compromising the ink storage capability.

 

the optimum is acheived when the filler cone is able to be screwed in fully and in this position the piston seal sticks out about 7-10mm from the bottom of the connector.

 

Now backoff the filler cone to leave sufficient gap to just slide in the filler wrench, insert the wrench pengs into the slots in the filler, tighten down the filler cone so that the wrench is snugly held.

 

Holding the wrench+filler assembly, thread in the barrel by feel, taking care.

 

Job done! remove the wrench, check filler smoothness and operation.

 

 

I hope this is useful.

[SamCapote]

Hari, so many thanks for your clear guides. Also thanks to fountainbel for making such excellent tools.

 

I recently got a wonderful 149 from Daniele in FPN Market, and wanted to have the piston turn a little easier. I got the excellent nib and piston tools from fountainbel, but thought I would ask a couple questions before performing surgery.

 

• When removing the piston, assuming I am the first one to do so, does the MB sealant require a lot more force to unlock the thread-lock sealant than you might think, given barrel is plastic?

• Without sealant reapplied, have you seen the brass retaining filler ring loosen when drawing/ejecting ink more readily?

• Do you think it would be OK to use the lubricant that comes with the TWSBI 530 for lubricating its piston seal? If there is a better one, I don't mind getting it.

• Where and how much of the lube do you apply? (i.e. to the upper sides of the pen chamber, or all around the seal, or does it not matter...is amount used like a BB, or grain of rice?)

• Do you lube any other parts like the piston rod?

• How long does the white sealing piston last before needing to be replaced, and is there anywhere to get a spare in the future? Same goes for a collection of 146 pens I got from kraz.

Thank you so much in advance.

[stevlight]

The first time removing the piston of a pen I have not worked on I always apply some heat from a blowdryer--don't force it--keep going back to the heat till it turns out.

 

I do not add any sealant when replacing the piston and have had no problems.

 

I use the TWIBI silicone with out any issues

 

Just two tiny drops on the clean piston head.

 

I only lube the piston head.

 

I have never needed to replace a piston head.

 

Are you removing the nibs? Or just the piston.

 

Good luck --go slow --do not force anything. This is just what works for me --others may have other feelings on the matter--I am sure they will--take in all of them --experiment and find what works for you.

Edited March 30, 2011 by stevlight

[SamCapote]

The first time removing the piston of a pen I have not worked on I always apply some heat from a blowdryer--don't force it--keep going back to the heat till it turns out.

 

I do not add any sealant when replacing the piston and have had no problems.

 

I use the TWIBI silicone with out any issues

 

Just two tiny drops on the clean piston head.

 

I only lube the piston head.

 

I have never needed to replace a piston head.

 

Are you removing the nibs? Or just the piston.

 

Good luck --go slow --do not force anything. This is just what works for me --others may have other feelings on the matter--I am sure they will--take in all of them --experiment and find what works for you.

 

Thanks! Not removing the nib at this point, but got those tools if I need to.

[hari317]

Sam, you have recd some excellent advice from Stevelight. I would like to add that you should never turn the piston filler wrench. Just fit it in the slots, tighten the knob down on it, hold the wrench handle in the left hand and only rotate the barrel. similar while tightening, do not over torque.

 

I have never reapplied the filler thread lock on a previously unopened pen. I clean out the thread lock residue, the minimal amount left sticking in the thread grooves will do the job.

 

I clean the old grease off the spindle using a clean rag and apply some silicone oil there too.

 

The elastomer seals are very long lasting. I have bought some NOS spares from sue at penboard I don't know if they still have stocks.

 

do not open the nib unit if there are no leaks. If you have to remove the nib and feed for cleaning or other nib work, it is better to remove the filler, and knock the nib feed out from the rear using a long knockout punch. The tryphon ones work very well.

 

from what I hear the twisbi grease is very thin, it might work very well on the spindle. Good luck!

 

Best,

Hari

[SamCapote]

Sam, you have recd some excellent advice from Stevelight. I would like to add that you should never turn the piston filler wrench. Just fit it in the slots, tighten the knob down on it, hold the wrench handle in the left hand and only rotate the barrel. similar while tightening, do not over torque.

 

I have never reapplied the filler thread lock on a previously unopened pen. I clean out the thread lock residue, the minimal amount left sticking in the thread grooves will do the job.

 

I clean the old grease off the spindle using a clean rag and apply some silicone oil there too.

 

The elastomer seals are very long lasting. I have bought some NOS spares from sue at penboard I don't know if they still have stocks.

 

do not open the nib unit if there are no leaks. If you have to remove the nib and feed for cleaning or other nib work, it is better to remove the filler, and knock the nib feed out from the rear using a long knockout punch. The tryphon ones work very well.

 

from what I hear the twisbi grease is very thin, it might work very well on the spindle. Good luck!

 

Best,

Hari

 

Excellent!

 

Is there a thread somewhere on more details of removing the nib feed that way ( reinserting it )? Are you saying it is not worth the effort/risk to use the nib remover tools from fountainbel approaching from the front?

[draeroheli]

Sam, you have recd some excellent advice from Stevelight. I would like to add that you should never turn the piston filler wrench. Just fit it in the slots, tighten the knob down on it, hold the wrench handle in the left hand and only rotate the barrel. similar while tightening, do not over torque.

 

I have never reapplied the filler thread lock on a previously unopened pen. I clean out the thread lock residue, the minimal amount left sticking in the thread grooves will do the job.

 

I clean the old grease off the spindle using a clean rag and apply some silicone oil there too.

 

The elastomer seals are very long lasting. I have bought some NOS spares from sue at penboard I don't know if they still have stocks.

 

do not open the nib unit if there are no leaks. If you have to remove the nib and feed for cleaning or other nib work, it is better to remove the filler, and knock the nib feed out from the rear using a long knockout punch. The tryphon ones work very well.

 

from what I hear the twisbi grease is very thin, it might work very well on the spindle. Good luck!

 

Best,

Hari

 

Excellent!

 

Is there a thread somewhere on more details of removing the nib feed that way ( reinserting it )? Are you saying it is not worth the effort/risk to use the nib remover tools from fountainbel approaching from the front?

 

Hi Sam,

 

Do it gently as Hari said. Front Nib/Feeder with the housing Collar unit removal is also very easy for MODERN MB 146 &149 using "FOUNTAINBLE" Equipments. No more pink silicone rubber glue is used by MB. It is like threads in an ink bottle. Just screw the unit in and out. Sometimes, I have to clean the Nib/Feeder unit out of the barrel in Ultrasound Machine, for stubborn ink flow problem. (Very effective way to dislodge any dried ink residue.)

 

Nib removing Knock Out block is needed if you want to take out the actual nib and feeder from the housing Collar. I bought several MB 146 & 149 spare parts such as Nib, Feeder, Housing unit and barrel to practice putting in and taking out these parts into bits and pieces. Practice runs to understand the nature of the MB pens.

 

I will post the topic in the near future about actual nib/feeder removal for the forum.

 

Mean time here is the link about Piston Removal My link "DIY SERVICING THE MB 146 PISTON"

 

Cheers!

 

Htin

Edited March 30, 2011 by draeroheli

[hari317]

Is there a thread somewhere on more details of removing the nib feed that way ( reinserting it )? Are you saying it is not worth the effort/risk to use the nib remover tools from fountainbel approaching from the front?

 

I am saying that there is no need to disturb the seal of the feeder case with the pen's barrel. You should be removing the feeder case only when the seal there has given away, resulting in a leak from the gripping section area.

 

The pens on which MB has used the bubble gum sealant, should be approached with caution. The sealant can roll while unscrewing the feeder case and can crack the gripping section. Ask Watch_art.

 

Fountainbel's tools are perfect to remove the feeder case, as and when the need arises.

 

I have posted a thread where I described how I resealed the feeder case on my modern 146 with a tool that Fountainbel made for me. I will have to dig that one up.

 

You reassemble the nib and feed to the pen as you do for any other pen with a friction fit nib and feed. Take care of the nib and feed orientation, there is a slot for the nib in the modern feeder case. Note the orientation of the removal slots wrt to the nib shoulders, 0 deg vs 90 deg on older pens.

 

Best

Hari

[SamCapote]

 

do not open the nib unit if there are no leaks. If you have to remove the nib and feed for cleaning or other nib work, it is better to remove the filler, and knock the nib feed out from the rear using a long knockout punch. The tryphon ones work very well.

 

from what I hear the twisbi grease is very thin, it might work very well on the spindle. Good luck!

 

Best,

Hari

 

Excellent!

 

Is there a thread somewhere on more details of removing the nib feed that way ( reinserting it )? Are you saying it is not worth the effort/risk to use the nib remover tools from fountainbel approaching from the front?

 

Hi Sam,

 

Do it gently as Hari said. Front Nib/Feeder with the housing Collar unit removal is also very easy for MODERN MB 146 &149 using "FOUNTAINBLE" Equipments. No more pink silicone rubber glue is used by MB. It is like threads in an ink bottle. Just screw the unit in and out. I always clean the Nib/Feeder unit out of the barrel in Ultrasound Machine. Very effective way to dislodge any dried ink residue.

 

Nib removing Knock Out block is needed if you want to take out the actual nib and feeder from the housing Collar. I bought several MB 146 & 149 spare parts such as Nib, Feeder, Housing unit and barrel to practice putting in and taking out these parts into bits and pieces. Practice runs to understand the nature of the MB pens.

 

I will post the topic in the near future about actual nib/feeder removal for the forum.

 

Mean time here is the link about Piston Removal My link "DIY SERVICING THE MB 146 PISTON"

 

Cheers!

 

Htin

 

Is there a thread somewhere on more details of removing the nib feed that way ( reinserting it )? Are you saying it is not worth the effort/risk to use the nib remover tools from fountainbel approaching from the front?

 

I am saying that there is no need to disturb the seal of the feeder case with the pen's barrel. You should be removing the feeder case only when the seal there has given away, resulting in a leak from the gripping section area.

 

The pens on which MB has used the bubble gum sealant, should be approached with caution. The sealant can roll while unscrewing the feeder case and can crack the gripping section. Ask Watch_art.

 

Fountainbel's tools are perfect to remove the feeder case, as and when the need arises.

 

I have posted a thread where I described how I resealed the feeder case on my modern 146 with a tool that Fountainbel made for me. I will have to dig that one up.

 

You reassemble the nib and feed to the pen as you do for any other pen with a friction fit nib and feed. Take care of the nib and feed orientation, there is a slot for the nib in the modern feeder case. Note the orientation of the removal slots wrt to the nib shoulders, 0 deg vs 90 deg on older pens.

 

Best

Hari

 

I think I am confused about the nib/feed and what is the feeder case, and where the section leak might show up to prompt that step so I know in the future. Specifically, are you both saying it is not a big deal to remove this whole nib/feed unit with Fountainbel's tool, and just clean it as a unit, but then don't take the nib/feed out of this holder? Here is your photo from that other thread. Or are you saying that even removing this is not to be done casually because there is a strong sealant on the feed holder threads at the bottom of this photo?

 

 

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii197/hari317/MB146/IMG_3213.jpg

 

Separate from that, is the stiffness of the piston filler knob turning mostly because the edge of the elastomer piston needs a lube, or because of some other common issue? It does feel much harder/stiffer to empty/fill with this new one than my other 149 & set of 146 demo's.

[hari317]

the feeder case is the black threaded component into which the nib and feeder are inserted. I recommend that the feeder case not be unscrewed from the barrel. if at all the nib and feed need removal, you can knock ithem out from the pen, leaving the feeder case still mated with the pen.

 

sometimes the seal between the barrel and the feeder case threads starts leaking. Ink will seep out either from the section threads area or under the feeder case's lip. In that case use fountainbel's tool to unscrew the feeder case.

 

most commonly the stiffness is due to the lip of the elastomer seal requiring lubricant. On well abused pens, ink might have leaked into the rear part of the pen jamming the spindle, and the filler cone threads.

[Pen Nut]

Quote "I think I am confused about the nib/feed and what is the feeder case, and where the section leak might show up to prompt that step so I know in the future. Specifically, are you both saying it is not a big deal to remove this whole nib/feed unit with Fountainbel's tool, and just clean it as a unit, but then don't take the nib/feed out of this holder? Here is your photo from that other thread. Or are you saying that even removing this is not to be done casually because there is a strong sealant on the feed holder threads at the bottom of this photo?"

 

I have used a tool supplied by Fountainbel and it required minimal pressure to over come the 'pink bubble gum' sealant used on the threads you describe. The nib/feed unit stays in one piece and I re-sealed my threads using a small amount of warm beeswax lightly applied. To date all has been fine.

[draeroheli]

Hi,

 

Modern MB factory can now produce precision threads on inside of the barrel as well as threads on the Feeder Case by their modern mold 21st century technology and those silicone rubber sealants are things of the past for vintage models which were made before year 2000. Besides, time is precious and MB staff will not spend hours warming up to take out these Feeder unit. They will be quick in and out.

 

If there is a slight leak at the lip, all you have to do is put a tiny amount of any suitable sealant around the lip of the feeder case. It will stop any ink leaking provided that the barrel has not had any hair line crack during the forceful removal of the unit. Then you will have to reseal that hair line crack. You can use 32 X loupe to inspect any hair line crack.

 

Sometimes, if it is only a tiny leak, it will stop leaking spontaneously when the ink dries from that leak area, no rush and not to panic. Time is on your side.

 

Try to keep any sealant away from the tip of the feeder thread where ink will be meeting because you do not want any oil mix with the ink. I no longer use any Vaseline or any lubricating silicone oil on the lip of the Elastomer piston because these modern material are self lubricating material. All you have to do is keep and eye on the white piston wall. If you start to see any tiny ink on the white wall of the elastomer through ink window when the piston is fully pushed towards the tip of the pen just before you fill the ink back, that is the time you need to service the pen again.

 

What Hari said was absolutely right. Please do not remove the nib/feeder/housing unit unnecessarily because all most all of the problem can be solved without taking the unit out of the barrel.

 

There is a real risk of cracking the barrel if the repairer is not gentle with the pen.

 

For vintage pen, MB used some form of resin sealant and you have to soak the barrel tip in water to remove any residual dried ink, and then warm up the barrel gently so that the barrel lumen will expand slightly so that the Feeder unit will come out. There must be some temperature difference between the outer barrel and the feeder housing itself. If both parts are heated together you will not gain much benefit. To be more complicated, some sealant like Shellac needs to be warm up to become loose and flexible rather than hard and brittle, which will lead to cracking the barrel.

 

As I said before, I practice on several MB spare parts for both vintage and modern ones and experiment various different sealant etc as my hobby.

 

I am glad that you are interested in DIY servicing your MB pen. MB does not charge that much for their service and you know that they can sort out any of your problem for you. Perhaps, headache free!

 

Best wishes,

 

Htin

Edited March 30, 2011 by draeroheli

[SamCapote]

Thanks for all your wonderful advice, but I still have the same question about nomenclature. In the photo from my last post, is nib/feed unit what you are saying should not be removed unless necessary? I had thought removing that with the tool shown was relatively easy...so maybe you mean some other disassembly. Again, I don't know all the terms for the parts, but am I looking at the case with the threads at bottom of the nib/feed unit which should not have been removed in that photo? If so, I am not understanding why some posters have said they remove that nib/feed unit frequently to more thoroughly clean it. Are they being reckless and lucky?