Noodler's Ink

[BBailey]

A nib meister told me just yesterday not to use Noodler's at all because of the solvents in the ink that damage nib feeds. Is there a discussion thread on FPN regarding this possible threat of using Noodler's? I'm sure there must be others who have already had this conversation.

 

Thanks.

 

B

[ofpwriter]

As I've discovered, many of the Noodler's-topics turn into a debate about the subject. My experience (Polar Black, Black and Legal Lapis) tells that Noodler's is a safe brand.

 

Here's a poll about Noodler's Black:

 

Noodler's Black...

[Chthulhu]

A nib meister told me just yesterday not to use Noodler's at all because of the solvents in the ink that damage nib feeds. Is there a discussion thread on FPN regarding this possible threat of using Noodler's? I'm sure there must be others who have already had this conversation.

 

Thanks.

 

B

 

From what I've read here at FPN it's only the Noodler's Baystate Blue ink that was a possible problem with Lamy pens in particular, but there seemed to be a concurrent issue of the feeds on those pens actually being defective, so I don't think there's been anything conclusively proving that the ink was at fault.

[Randal6393]

Hi, B,

 

Yes, there are many messages about Noodler inks. Just run a quick search and read to your heart's confusion.

 

A quick thumbnail on Noodler inks:

 

* Most Noodler inks are pH neutral and very safe. They are high-saturation inks with lots of color, so may need a stir before using. Especially if they have sat a while. The inks are, generally, cellulose-reactive, meaning they wash off most plastics without staining. Anything with cellulose (meaning papers) will bond to the ink. Many Noodler inks are guaranteed by Nathan Tardiff (manufacturer of Noodler inks) to resist water, bleach, and solvents to the extent that they are "bulletproof" or "eternal".

 

* Nathan has a line of inks that is a reformulation of 1950's inks. That is called the Baystate line and the ink most heard of in that series is the Baystate Blue (BSB). BSB is not waterproof, not cellulose-reactive, stains like crazy, and is alkaline. It is also one of the most brilliant blue inks made. Most of the canards used about Noodler inks involve BSB. People have had problems with a Safari feed -- but we aren't sure whether BSB caused the problem or exacerbated a flaw in the Safari feed. Symptom: The pen nib lifts off the feed and falls off. However many people have used BSB in their Safari for six months or more and report no problem. My solution is to use another (non-Baystate) ink, especially in my Safari pens.

 

Well, hope you find this information useful. I attest to the general safety and usefulness of Noodler inks -- they are the only brand of ink I use regularly. YMMV, but I think you might like them. If you try one, work carefully and be cautious. Enjoy,

[BBailey]

Hi, B,

 

Yes, there are many messages about Noodler inks. Just run a quick search and read to your heart's confusion.

 

A quick thumbnail on Noodler inks:

 

* Most Noodler inks are pH neutral and very safe. They are high-saturation inks with lots of color, so may need a stir before using. Especially if they have sat a while. The inks are, generally, cellulose-reactive, meaning they wash off most plastics without staining. Anything with cellulose (meaning papers) will bond to the ink. Many Noodler inks are guaranteed by Nathan Tardiff (manufacturer of Noodler inks) to resist water, bleach, and solvents to the extent that they are "bulletproof" or "eternal".

 

* Nathan has a line of inks that is a reformulation of 1950's inks. That is called the Baystate line and the ink most heard of in that series is the Baystate Blue (BSB). BSB is not waterproof, not cellulose-reactive, stains like crazy, and is alkaline. It is also one of the most brilliant blue inks made. Most of the canards used about Noodler inks involve BSB. People have had problems with a Safari feed -- but we aren't sure whether BSB caused the problem or exacerbated a flaw in the Safari feed. Symptom: The pen nib lifts off the feed and falls off. However many people have used BSB in their Safari for six months or more and report no problem. My solution is to use another (non-Baystate) ink, especially in my Safari pens.

 

Well, hope you find this information useful. I attest to the general safety and usefulness of Noodler inks -- they are the only brand of ink I use regularly. YMMV, but I think you might like them. If you try one, work carefully and be cautious. Enjoy,

 

Your response was interesting. Thanks for including the summary of other discussions.

 

The nib meister sent me photos of two nib feeds (not Lamy pens) that he says were the result of Noodler's use. He is making money from pen users who have to pay to have feeds and ink sacs refitted by him or the mfr. So, Lamy wasn't the issue and he insists that Noodler's is the issue. Diamine, he says, are not as bad as Noodler's, but for both the issue is the solvents in the ink.

[zquilts]

I wonder if the nibmeister was referring to pens in which the ink is left to dry out -not using using the pen for some time. I can see where any ink might cause a problem if left to dry. Of course, throughout the history of inks there have been those that were corrosive (think Iron gall).

 

RandaL: thanks for the good information that you posted.

[Possum Hill]

 

Your response was interesting. Thanks for including the summary of other discussions.

 

The nib meister sent me photos of two nib feeds (not Lamy pens) that he says were the result of Noodler's use. He is making money from pen users who have to pay to have feeds and ink sacs refitted by him or the mfr. So, Lamy wasn't the issue and he insists that Noodler's is the issue. Diamine, he says, are not as bad as Noodler's, but for both the issue is the solvents in the ink.

We'd be very interested in seeing those photos, if possible. Otherwise, a description of the details of the problem would be appreciated.

[BBailey]

Can I send you a copy of the photos until I can figure out how to add photos from a Mac? I have posted photos before (with the previous FPN version) I'm having difficulty getting photos uploaded. It seems to recognize the photos, but they don't appear when I preview or post.

Edited September 19, 2009 by BBailey

[Viseguy]

The inks are, generally, cellulose-reactive, meaning they wash off most plastics without staining. Anything with cellulose (meaning papers) will bond to the ink. Many Noodler inks are guaranteed by Nathan Tardiff (manufacturer of Noodler inks) to resist water, bleach, and solvents to the extent that they are "bulletproof" or "eternal".

Most Noodler's inks are not cellulose-reactive -- only the bulletproof/eternal/contract inks are. The majority of Noodler's are conventional FP inks, albeit with high dye content (a/k/a highly saturated). Bulletproof or not, they all wash out of pens like any other brand of FP ink, although some (e.g., reds and purples) may be more tenacious than others (same as other brands). This is a function of the dyes used for that color, not the cellulose-reactive (or non-reactive) nature of the dye. The point about the cellulose-reactive inks is that they are no more staining, and no less easy to wash out, than conventional inks. In some cases, easier: Bulletproof Black, for example, washes out much faster than, say, Visconti Blue (in my experience).

[BBailey]

Can I send you a copy of the photos until I can figure out how to add photos from a Mac? I have posted photos before (with the previous FPN version) I'm having difficulty getting photos uploaded. It seems to recognize the photos, but they don't appear when I preview or post.

 

Apparently the photo was too large to add. I think I've added it to the post.

[Viseguy]

A nib meister told me just yesterday not to use Noodler's at all because of the solvents in the ink that damage nib feeds.

As you'll see when you research the subject, the anecdotes about Noodler's destroying feeds have to do with the Baystate line. Baystate is a small subset of Noodler's, and is quite different from other Noodler's inks in that its pH is in the basic range. Most other Noodler's inks are pH-neutral. The maker specifically cautions against mixing Baystate inks with other inks, including other Noodler's. I've never used any of the Baystate inks, so I have nothing to say either way about them. But based on the anecdotal evidence (for what it's worth), it's unfair to tar all Noodler's inks because of damage attributed to the Baystate line. If that damage has anything to do with Baystate (which is debatable, and has been much debated here), it may have resulted from the unintended mixing of Baystate with residual amounts of other inks in the damaged pen.

 

For myself, I prefer to keep life simple, so I avoid Baystate and stick to the regular and bulletproof Noodler's. These I've used for five years continuously, in a wide range of pens from cheap to expensive, and have never had a problem of any kind.

[Splicer]

It's hard to tell—is that covered with an obscene amount of dried ink, or is it melted? If the latter it would be nice to know what that feed is made of. Also: how old is that pen? Did the pockmarks on the section supposedly come from Noodler's ink as well? Maybe it's the angle of the photo, but it looks like the nib is bent as well. Looks more like the pen was placed in my oven's broiler for a few hours!

[dizzypen]

I hope someone brings this to Nathan's attention. That photo looks highly suspicious especially since the nib looks mangled.

 

All I can do is speak from experience and my experiences with Noodler's suggest that his inks are perfectly safe.

[tzmcneill]

The damage to those feeds looks like the result of heat or some sort of chemical burning. I've got pens with both plastic and ebonite feeds and I've used Noodler's almost exclusively, I've never seen anything approaching that. Noodler's is pH neutral (generally). As far as solvents go, Noodler's is primarily water. That damage you have illustrated could have been caused by an organic solvent like acetone. The solvent smell you get from some Noodler's inks Kung-Te Chung for example, I believe to be a fungicide, or possibly a bit of isopropyl alcohol added to speed drying. Those pens look like they've had a pretty rough life. With proper cleaning and care of your pens you shouldn't have any issues with ink short of India ink.

 

tom.

[PatientType]

My little two-cents... When I use Noodler's bulletproof inks they've had a tendency to gum up the nibs of some pens. So far they've all washed out clean (although that sometimes required multiple soaks and flushings).

 

The regular water-based Noodler's inks have been very problem-free for me. They appear to have good flow characteristics combined with consistent and deep colors. A superior ink.

Edited September 19, 2009 by PatientType

[Possum Hill]

Can I send you a copy of the photos until I can figure out how to add photos from a Mac? I have posted photos before (with the previous FPN version) I'm having difficulty getting photos uploaded. It seems to recognize the photos, but they don't appear when I preview or post.

 

Apparently the photo was too large to add. I think I've added it to the post.

 

Thanks for posting the photo.

[Viseguy]

I hope someone brings this to Nathan's attention. That photo looks highly suspicious especially since the nib looks mangled.

The damage to those feeds looks like the result of heat or some sort of chemical burning.

The photo suggests that there was a reaction of some kind that was not the result of Noodler's alone. (Noodler's + blowtorch + hammer & tongs?)

[Possum Hill]

I hope someone brings this to Nathan's attention. That photo looks highly suspicious especially since the nib looks mangled.

The damage to those feeds looks like the result of heat or some sort of chemical burning.

The photo suggests that there was a reaction of some kind that was not the result of Noodler's alone. (Noodler's + blowtorch + hammer & tongs?)

The outside of the section appears to be damaged. Maybe someone applied a little too much heat while trying to disassemble the pen. It seems highly unlikely that any ink or even most solvents found in the workshop would pit the section like that.

[loweevan]

Yeah, that picture is definitely of a damaged pen. Agreed. However, I don't really think that any ink manufacturer in their right mind who wanted to continue to have a career would ever produce something so acidic/alkaline that it melted feeds, and apparently sections. I would guess that any ink corrosive enough to mess up the feed that bad would also have begun to pit and deplate the nib, which doesn't seem to be one of the points of damage that this pen has suffered.

 

Here is a link to Nathan Tardiff's site, where he has a .gif of a corrosion test with several different pH inks in an aluminum foil cone. If Noodler's is responsible for this, then just about any Central European pen that uses standard, local ink should probably be thrown out after a year of use. Noodler's pH Test.

 

I, too, have had some starting/clogging issues with Noodler's bulletproof inks, but nothing that a little soaking in water and more flushing than normal didn't fix. The Baystate colors have their own list of complaints, but I've never had any issues with the one I have -- I left it in an acrylic eye dropper for several months and didn't have any issues whatsoever. The normal line of inks not only offers a wide range of colors, but behave on par with or better than other brands I've used.

[BBailey]

Thanks everyone for the responses to the post. I'm trying to sort out what is accurate information about Noodler's and other inks and it is evident that there are two different points of view on Noodler's. Two people have warned me not to use Noodler's at all and others who are using Noodler's have some reticence for Bay State inks, but not necessarily all Noodler's ink.

 

I am merely asking the question and passing along the words of caution given to me about Noodler's along with a photo allegedly of a nib damaged by Noodler's. I have used Noodler's for probably no more than six months with the ink left in the converter for the entire time and haven't yet noticed any problems with my pens.

 

If problems do arise in my Lamys then the damage is not too great. I do want to exercise caution in putting safe ink in my new CS Winston. Maybe I'll stick to CS cartridges!

 

B