MB Generation

[pankaj]

Hi MB firends ! I'm wondering if anyone out here has got live experience of cracks on the plastic body of the MB Generation. I got kinda turned off with MB qualities of lower end pens like generation, seeing mine cracked at the nib section joining the body, I take best care of the pens tho'. Of course, I'm quite happy with my other MB LEs and Sterling.

[meanwhile]

If it's an MB "precious resin" pen, it seems that there's a chance that it might crack for no special reason. 149's are notorious for the problem. The good news is that MB repair cracked pens for a "reasonable" charge - $55 to $75 is the price usually spoken of.

[Allan]

Hi MB firends ! I'm wondering if anyone out here has got live experience of cracks on the plastic body of the MB Generation. I got kinda turned off with MB qualities of lower end pens like generation, seeing mine cracked at the nib section joining the body, I take best care of the pens tho'. Of course, I'm quite happy with my other MB LEs and Sterling.

 

MB will repair it for a nominal charge as long as the nib is intact, contact your local MB dealer for details. I have heard good things about the Generations, being fairly well made for their price point, so I am a little surprised. Do you write fairly hard? Of course since you own other LEs and Sterlings, you know the previous post about cracking for no special reason is FUD so we wont go in to that.

 

Allan

[goodguy]

I have a MB Generation and I love the pen.Dont have ANY problems with the pen and it doesnt have any cracks.

[tiecoon]

Hi MB firends ! I'm wondering if anyone out here has got live experience of cracks on the plastic body of the MB Generation. I got kinda turned off with MB qualities of lower end pens like generation, seeing mine cracked at the nib section joining the body, I take best care of the pens tho'. Of course, I'm quite happy with my other MB LEs and Sterling.

Generation is not the same resin thickness as the Meisterstuck, so it may tend to crack easier, however, any boutique can repair it for you.

[pankaj]

Hi MB firends ! I'm wondering if anyone out here has got live experience of cracks on the plastic body of the MB Generation. I got kinda turned off with MB qualities of lower end pens like generation, seeing mine cracked at the nib section joining the body, I take best care of the pens tho'. Of course, I'm quite happy with my other MB LEs and Sterling.

Generation is not the same resin thickness as the Meisterstuck, so it may tend to crack easier, however, any boutique can repair it for you.

Thanks tiecoon. There are 3 big authorised MB boutiques in town. Checked out with one and left the pen. The crack they say is minor and can be fixed. Now a 'free service week' for MB is going on in the boutique, MB Hambg. Germany sponsored. Good that they are going to do it free, but cost to me for any part replacement, if at all. and I agree with Allan, Generation is fairly well made, but may be due to its mass production, specially in large voume for Asian region, sth might go wrong at mfg - just my guess. Anyway, all opinions well appreciated and respected.

Edited June 21, 2007 by pankaj

[mr T.]

Generation is fairly well made, but may be due to its mass production, specially in large voume for Asian region, sth might go wrong at mfg - just my guess.

 

I reallly doubt if 'mass production' has anything to do with it. There are other brands that are mass produced and don't have this kind of serious problems. Cracks on the body are not a minor problem.

[meanwhile]

Generation is fairly well made, but may be due to its mass production, specially in large voume for Asian region, sth might go wrong at mfg - just my guess.

 

I reallly doubt if 'mass production' has anything to do with it. There are other brands that are mass produced and don't have this kind of serious problems. Cracks on the body are not a minor problem.

 

Also: an injection moulded pen is an injection moulded pen. And it seems that all of MB's "precious resin" pens are made by this technique. The problem is probably some combination of unusual nature of the resin - plastic with embedded glass fibres - or the casting technique. 149's are made in just the same way and are notorious for fragility.

 

Oh - and depending on the age of your pen, I'd have a go at making MB repair it for free. Chartpak has repaired Pelikans for free when even dropped when they felt the drop was a short one and the pen shouldn't have had a problem, so MB should be willing to repair something that it is obviously a fault in their workmanship for free.

Edited June 22, 2007 by meanwhile

[mr T.]

Oh - and depending on the age of your pen, I'd have a go at making MB repair it for free. Chartpak has repaired Pelikans for free when even dropped when they felt the drop was a short one and the pen shouldn't have had a problem, so MB should be willing to repair something that it is obviously a fault in their workmanship for free.

 

I agree with you. MB has to repair this sort of problems for free. However what you see in this case is a demonstration of the not so good warranty of MB. The Generation isn't made anymore so it seems that MB can't sell a new one for a 'service fee'. The two years warranty is also over and that means: paying for part replacement. Indeed: the owner is paying here for a fault in workmanship.

[Allan]

149's are made in just the same way and are notorious for fragility.

 

Notorious only because you say so? I think not. No proof of any substantial numbers of 149s have had any problems of fragility.

 

Allan

 

[Allan]

I agree with you. MB has to repair this sort of problems for free. However what you see in this case is a demonstration of the not so good warranty of MB. The Generation isn't made anymore so it seems that MB can't sell a new one for a 'service fee'. The two years warranty is also over and that means: paying for part replacement. Indeed: the owner is paying here for a fault in workmanship.

 

Not so good warranty? He has not even stated how the crack happened. So exactly how do you know it would be covered by anyone's warranty?

 

MB does not sell new pens for a "service fee". If that were true they would not exclude the nib. When you pay the $55 service fee they replace all problem parts, except you get your original nib back, along with any parts that are in good working order. So if you drop the pen, crack the cap, you pay your $55 and get a new CAP, probably with your clip, definitely with your original barrel, section and nib.

 

And no, he is not paying a red cent for the repair, as he said, it is a free repair week. Ever seen another manufacturer have a free repair week? I have not.

 

Lastly, since the original poster never said how the crack happened, how can you even assume that it is a fault in workmanship? Oh wait, that's right, you just assume.

 

Allan

[pankaj]

I agree with you. MB has to repair this sort of problems for free. However what you see in this case is a demonstration of the not so good warranty of MB. The Generation isn't made anymore so it seems that MB can't sell a new one for a 'service fee'. The two years warranty is also over and that means: paying for part replacement. Indeed: the owner is paying here for a fault in workmanship.

 

Not so good warranty? He has not even stated how the crack happened. So exactly how do you know it would be covered by anyone's warranty?

 

MB does not sell new pens for a "service fee". If that were true they would not exclude the nib. When you pay the $55 service fee they replace all problem parts, except you get your original nib back, along with any parts that are in good working order. So if you drop the pen, crack the cap, you pay your $55 and get a new CAP, probably with your clip, definitely with your original barrel, section and nib.

 

And no, he is not paying a red cent for the repair, as he said, it is a free repair week. Ever seen another manufacturer have a free repair week? I have not.

 

Lastly, since the original poster never said how the crack happened, how can you even assume that it is a fault in workmanship? Oh wait, that's right, you just assume.

 

Allan

 

Well.. well..well..my fault, I hadn't mentioned how it cracked. Ok, just to explain, No drop dead - no slip from my hand anytime. I always follow the "handle with care" principle.

 

The crack with this pen is not generated by any sort of mishandling, and strangely I hvnt had seen this prob with any of other MBs - noblesse ( guess spelling rightly), 144, 146 fp/bp/rp .. So difficult to coclude anything. But ... no casting aspersion... such workmanship defect is not expected from MB.

 

Here, I wd like to share some views and info from my place regarding MB. You know what , Bombay is the commercial capital of India, and snub value matters a lot here. I think the number of MB shops here will really surprise many. Many 5 star hotels have got mb boutiques, besides dozens of reputed pen shops in malls. I think mb sales outnumber any other brand of pens. May be its a 'developing country' syndrom. Ok, so what I'm trying to say is ppl consider mb as a status / style statement. And interestingly, I also hear as many number of mb complaints ... overflow, no flow, sweating at nib sections bla bla. But , anyway, this is my first of kinda prob. Otherwise, I'm a HARDCORE MB LOYALIST, tho' I unconditionally love all other standard brands and possess one too many from among them.

 

 

 

[meanwhile]

I agree with you. MB has to repair this sort of problems for free. However what you see in this case is a demonstration of the not so good warranty of MB. The Generation isn't made anymore so it seems that MB can't sell a new one for a 'service fee'. The two years warranty is also over and that means: paying for part replacement. Indeed: the owner is paying here for a fault in workmanship.

 

Not so good warranty? He has not even stated how the crack happened. So exactly how do you know it would be covered by anyone's warranty?

 

MB does not sell new pens for a "service fee". If that were true they would not exclude the nib. When you pay the $55 service fee they replace all problem parts, except you get your original nib back, along with any parts that are in good working order. So if you drop the pen, crack the cap, you pay your $55 and get a new CAP, probably with your clip, definitely with your original barrel, section and nib.

 

And no, he is not paying a red cent for the repair, as he said, it is a free repair week. Ever seen another manufacturer have a free repair week? I have not.

 

Lastly, since the original poster never said how the crack happened, how can you even assume that it is a fault in workmanship? Oh wait, that's right, you just assume.

 

Allan

 

Well.. well..well..my fault, I hadn't mentioned how it cracked. Ok, just to explain, No drop dead - no slip from my hand anytime. I always follow the "handle with care" principle.

 

The crack with this pen is not generated by any sort of mishandling, and strangely I hvnt had seen this prob with any of other MBs - noblesse ( guess spelling rightly), 144, 146 fp/bp/rp .. So difficult to coclude anything. But ... no casting aspersion... such workmanship defect is not expected from MB.

 

I think everyone except Alan knew this from your writing:

 

I'm wondering if anyone out here has got live experience of cracks on the plastic body of the MB Generation. I got kinda turned off with MB qualities of lower end pens like generation, seeing mine cracked at the nib section joining the body, I take best care of the pens tho'.

 

As opposed to:

 

Hey! I dropped my MB from a second story window and now it's cracked! I wonder why??? Has this happened to anyone else???

 

People don't write posts wondering why their $400 pen has cracked when there is an obvious reason, still less explain in puzzlement that they have taken very good care of them...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Allan]

I think everyone except Alan knew this from your writing:

 

Don't you meant "everyone assumed except Allan"? I had my suspicions, but I did not jump to any conclusions.

 

Allan

[meanwhile]

I think everyone except Alan knew this from your writing:

 

Don't you meant "everyone assumed except Allan"?

 

 

No, Allan - for the reasons above.

 

 

Well done on working out how to use the smiley menu!

 

Anyway. Applying similar basic reading and logical skills to a little more of the text:

 

And no, he is not paying a red cent for the repair, as he said, it is a free repair week.

 

Well, actually:

 

Good that they are going to do it free, but cost to me for any part replacement, if at all.

 

So not terribly free.

 

Ever seen another manufacturer have a free repair week? I have not.

 

Many of MB's rivals have a lifetime warranty - which under the circumstances I think the poor guy would prefer. And a "free" repair week isn't very free when you have to pay for parts - especially at the rates that may get charged by a company that sells a pen that probably costs $50 to make for $600. In fact, they probably make out like bandits. You can basically see "free repair week" as a marketing event where MB sell people more stuff that they would have got for free with a much cheaper pen and expect to get thanked for it.

Edited June 23, 2007 by meanwhile

[Allan]

I think everyone except Alan knew this from your writing:

 

Don't you meant "everyone assumed except Allan"?

 

 

No, Allan - for the reasons above.

 

When he first made the comments, he did assume because it was not mentioned. Sorry, your psychic powers notwithstanding.

 

And BTW, after reading it 50-60 times, and writing it 10 or more times, I am very pleased you learned how to spell my name! :bunny01:

 

 

Well, actually:

 

Good that they are going to do it free, but cost to me for any part replacement, if at all.

 

 

 

So not terribly free.

 

Note that here, we both assumed, you assumed he would have to buy parts, I assumed he would not.

 

 

Many of MB's rivals have a lifetime warranty - which under the circumstances I think the poor guy would prefer. And a "free" repair week isn't very free when you have to pay for parts - especially at the rates that may get charged by a company that sells a pen that probably costs $50 to make for $600. In fact, they probably make out like bandits. You can basically see "free repair week" as a marketing event where MB sell people more stuff that they would have got for free with a much cheaper pen and expect to get thanked for it.

 

And many do not, most Sheaffers, Parkers, Dupont, Namiki, Waterman, Ducati, Dunhill, Montegrappa, Omas, Pelikan, and Visconti just to name a few. Most of these manufacturers have pens in the range of most Montblanc pens (LEs excluded), so I think Montblanc is in great company, and doing nothing that everyone else is not doing as well. But it wouldn't be any fun for you to bash twelve manufacturers now would it? :embarrassed_smile:

 

Allan

[mr T.]

And many do not, most Sheaffers, Parkers, Dupont, Namiki, Waterman, Ducati, Dunhill, Montegrappa, Omas, Pelikan, and Visconti just to name a few. Most of these manufacturers have pens in the range of most Montblanc pens (LEs excluded), so I think Montblanc is in great company, and doing nothing that everyone else is not doing as well

 

 

Montblanc warranty: two years international warranty, one year limited for North America.

 

so yes, just to name a few based on facts:

 

the bad:

 

Platinum/Nakaya: one year guarantee.

 

Lamy: "Lamy guarantees that our products will be repaired at no charge in case of possible flaws in material or workmanship during a period of 2 years from the date of purchase – except for damage from improper use or normal wear." (their products are better than their warranty)

 

ST Dupont: "In addition to the legal guarantee for latent defects, S.T. Dupont pens, lighters and accessories are guaranteed for 2 years under normal usage conditions." (seen the prices like MB another brand to avoid)

 

Omas: "Omas writing instruments are covered by a lifetime guarantee against manufacturing defects according to the conditions listed below. Any defective writing instrument should be returned to an authorized Omas dealer together with the guarantee certificate provided at the time of purchase duly filled, dated and stamped by the selling authorized Omas dealer.

Any defective product, assuming that the defect is verified by our service centre, will be repaired or replaced for free. Nevertheless, after 24 months from the date of purchase, the cost of labour will be charged even if the replacement of the defective parts is covered by the guarantee. The lifetime guarantee does not cover damage caused by improper use, breakage due to accident, repairs made by a non-authorized service centre, the use of components other than those recommended by Omas, or natural aging and normal wear and tear." (not great but better than MB)

 

 

the average

 

Parker: only the latest models (2+2=) 4 years, most in stock in shops still lifetime guarantee. (always situations better than MB)

 

Pelikan: "The guarantee period for any faults in material or manufacture is three years as from the date of purchase. The guarantee does not apply in cases of improper use, tampering by unauthorized persons, loss or wear to due to use." (indeed: better than MB)

 

Waterman: 3 years international guarantee (so better than MB). some in stock still lifetime guarantee.

 

Namiki: at least three years. on some models liftetime (also better than MB)

 

Aurora: "Aurora Writing Instruments are guaranteed for 5 years against any defective materials and workmanship." (again much better than MB)

 

 

the best:

 

Visconti: "International Warranty. Visconti fountain pens are guaranteed to be free from any and all mechanical defects for the lifetime of original owner,

provided the writing instruments has not been improperly handled and any service to it is performed by an authorized Visconti service person."

 

Shaeffer: "These Sheaffer® writing instruments are guaranteed against mechanical failure due to original factory defects in materials and workmanship, for the lifetime of its first owner." (for the Legacy Heritage and Prelude) or "These Sheaffer® writing instruments are warrantied against mechanical failure due to defects in material or workmanship for a period of three (3) years from the date of purchase from an authorized Sheaffer Retailer" (for the Valor, Prelude MPI, Agio, Agio Compact or Star of Egypt) (That means in the 'MB category' in all cases better than MB)

 

Montegrappa warranty: "Each Montegrappa pen is guaranteed for 24 months from the date of purchase against any functioning defects and for an unlimited period against manufacturing defects." (so in fact: lifetime guarantee)

 

Caran d'Ache: "Every product is in perfect condition when it leaves our factory and is guaranteed against any manufacturing defects which may subsequently come to light. This worldwide guarantee is confirmed by the certificate which accompanies the product." (one of the best indeed)

 

Faber Castell fp's/Porsche Design: lifetime warranty.

 

Ballograf: lifetime guarantee. (a ballpoint manufacturer, just as comparison)

 

Cross: lifetime guarantee

 

That means that the only companies that do the same or worse in terms of warranty than Montblanc are Platinum/Nakaya, Lamy and ST Dupont. All the others, including brands with low end products in their range, do better or much better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ray]

That means that the only companies that do the same or worse in terms of warranty than Montblanc are Platinum/Nakaya, Lamy and ST Dupont. All the others, including brands with low end products in their range, do better or much better.

 

Another perspective, which I've given before and I'll give again. When Daewoo and Skoda started trying to seriously sell cars in the UK, they gave them the most incredible warranties. Not lifetime warranties, but for 5 years and seriously high mileage. Why? Because their cars were fantastic? No, becasue they needed the marketing advantage such a warranty gives. It takes away some of the fears a consumer may have about buying such a marque. So Skoda has a longer warranty than a Ford, a Dodge, a BMW, a Volvo. Is it a better car? Is it less likely to have a defect? Ford and BMW don't NEED to issue a longer warranty, because there is enough confidence in the brand.

 

And can you name a 'manufacturing defect' that takes more than 2 years to become apparrent?

 

Ray

 

[mr T.]

So Skoda has a longer warranty than a Ford, a Dodge, a BMW, a Volvo. Is it a better car? Is it less likely to have a defect? Ford and BMW don't NEED to issue a longer warranty, because there is enough confidence in the brand.

 

In objective terms: yes a Skoda is less likely to have a defect than Ford, a Dodge/Chrysler, a BMW or a Volvo. Daewoo makes more reliable cars than Ford, BMW, Chrysler/Dodge and Volvo too. For some objective figures see for example this link. And in objective terms: Ford and BMW do in my opinion need a longer warranty. The most obvious is that the case with Ford. Ford (in Europe) does have a bad name in terms of quality and durability. No they are not as bad as Citroen, Fiat/Lancia/Alfa Romeo (how low can bad quality go), or Renault but not very good. In terms of objective quality: Dodge/Chrysler is very low in quality too. BMW could be the MB of the carworld: they are just mass produced overpriced and below average cars in terms of reliability and durability. However some people seem to like them and just like with MB they're seen by some as status symbols. The same can be said from car brands like Jaguar (the X-type is just a Ford Mondeo with a different brand label) or Audi (most models are overpriced Volkswagens). Car brands that don't need longer warranty are Honda, Mazda, Nissan and Toyota They are in objective terms reliable en offer superior quality. It's no surprise that Japanese brands are doing well in the European car market. In terms of fountain pen brands: MB doesn't offer that superior quality at all in the penindustry as do Japanese cars in the car industry. MB offers 'Alfa Romeo' or 'Audi' quality for a 'BMW' or 'Jaguar' price.

 

And can you name a 'manufacturing defect' that takes more than 2 years to become apparrent?

 

Most defects can. In most cases these have to do with the quality of used materials (like cracking barrels, cracking feeds (on the connection point with the nib for example) problems with glues, problems with paints/coatings, discolorings, problems with the used metals in nibs etc). Had myself a problem once with a Parker that had to do with the quality of used materials (on the grip) after about four years. The problem was solved by Parker UK for free because of the lifetime guarantee (and would be free too under the new warranty conditions). If my pen was a MB, it would have cost me money. Another example is the problem the starter of this topic has of course.

 

Because their cars were fantastic? No, becasue they needed the marketing advantage such a warranty gives

 

In the case of the pen brands I mentioned with very good warranty were high end brands like Faber Castell (and Porsche Design) and Caran d'Ache. These firms don't really need a marketing advantage. The fact that they give lifetime guarantee means they have confidence in the quality of the product that leaves their factory. But also a brand that I didn't mention: Bic. If there is a problem with a Bic fountain pen (like the X-Pen or the X-Pen Select) that has to do with defects in workmanship or materials, send it to the factory in France and the sender will receive a new one. There are no other conditions. So Bic has to be added to the 'very good' list too.

Edited June 25, 2007 by mr T.

[MBSL]

And can you name a 'manufacturing defect' that takes more than 2 years to become apparrent?

 

Most defects can. In most cases these have to do with the quality of used materials (like cracking barrels, cracking feeds (on the connection point with the nib for example) problems with glues, problems with paints/coatings, discolorings, problems with the used metals in nibs etc). Had myself a problem once with a Parker that had to do with the quality of used materials (on the grip) after about four years. The problem was solved by Parker UK for free because of the lifetime guarantee (and would be free too under the new warranty conditions). If my pen was a MB, it would have cost me money. Another example is the problem the starter of this topic has of course.

 

There's a difference between a latent defects, design defects, manufacturing defects, and designed product or material lifespan. For example, anything made of rubber will deteriorate over time but that does not necessarily mean it is defective. I do not expect my car, stereo, washer, dryer, or whatever to last forever. That is simply unreasonable. Anything made from any material will deteriorate. This then, is the distinction between a manufacuring defect and deterioration or a product's natural lifespan.

 

Because we are talking about manufacturing defects in the realm of warranties and legal obligations of the companies in question under their warranties, the legal definition of a manufacturing defect here in the US is, "An imperfection in a product that departs from its intended design even though all possible care was exercised in its assembly marketing." Black's Law Dictionary 8th ed. The key language here is "that departs from its intended design." Overall product lifespan has absolutely nothing to do with intended design. Some things are designed to last longer (e.g. nuclear waste storage containers) and some are not (e.g. rubber o-rings or seals). Circuits in modern missiles have designed lifespans measured in tenths or hundreths of a second because of their purpose.

 

Therefore, when you say most defects can occur after two years, it seems as though you are referring to product and material deterioration or end of product or material lifespan rather than a manufacturing defect per se. Without knowing what the intended lifespan or design of a product is, you cannot determine whether it is, in fact, a defect or merely deterioration. This is why there are lots of products liability lawsuits that seek to discover what the intended design parameters of a product is.

 

All of this may or may not be related to a manufacturer's warranty period or scope. This is largely a business decision based on, as Ray observed, perceived marketing needs, costs to support the warranty program, anticipated failure rate (i.e. mean time between failure for a particular product or product line). Internal policy can also dictate how a company handles warranty and non-warranty claims. As I've noted before, MB has repaired or replaced items for me that were well outside the scope of their warranty or for things that were not covered under warranty, such as accidental damage in one of my cases.

 

I also agree with Ray's observation that some products have built a reputation for quality and thus, a long warranty is not needed. You bring up warranties a lot in these threads so I assume they are important to you. A warranty, however, is still only one factor that gets weighed when people purchase things. For some people it is extremely important, for others, not as much or it may even be a non-issue.

 

Now, getting back to the warranties you've cited as being "the best." It will all depend on how they choose to define the terms "mechanical defect" or "mechanical failure." The other "lifetime" warranties are qualify the warranty by stating they are limited to "manufacturing defects," "defects in materials and workmanship," etc. So again, we go back to the definition of a manfucturing defect and see that it will depend on how the company decides to define a manufacturing defect and on how it decides to honor its warranty. The mere fact that the word "lifetime" is used connotes a limitation on the warranty to manufacturing, materials, or assembly defects. This is especially true in the last three examples you gave because the use of the word "lifetime" is ambiguous and does not refer either to the lifetime of the owner or the lifetime of the product.

 

Although most consumers make the assumption that anything and everything is covered under a "lifetime" warranty for the life of the product, that simply is not the case. The manfucturer has most likely limited their liability to an indefinite period of time for the product based on their definition of the "lifetime" of the product. The only warranty that truly lasts for the lifetime of the owner that is legally enforceable in the United States is the "full lifetime warranty" that requires that exact and specific language unless they received an exemption from the FTC. The other exception, is for consumer products that cost the consumer less than $5 such as your disposable Bics and other pens.

 

While this may be an intesting intellectual exercise, the bottom line is most written warranties don't mean squat when it comes to things like pens. It all depends on how a company decides to handle its warranty claims and whether someone is willing to sue for enforcement if they don't like the result or the company's interpretation of the warranty.

 

You've had good experiences with Parker and other brands, I've had good experiences with MB. The best someone like the original poster can do if they are concerned about service and warranties is talk to the company or find out what first-hand experiences people have.