Rotring 1928 plunger gasket replacement.

[Inka]

OK, not many of these on the planet as I've found, only 1,928 ever produced @ 1998, but I'm still hoping one of the Gurus of pen repair may have worked on this problem and knows how to resolve it.

Having just received the Rotring 1928, NOS that's never once been filled or ink or used, I can tell while the pen itself is of superb quality the filling system seems more for show that actual use in filling the pen with ink.

On the plunger rod end, there is a cheesey & non-functional white nylon plunger gasket, a tiny c-clip holds it on the rod, a tiny black rubber o-ring under the nylon plunger.

It's pretty obvious from the get-go that the flanged nylon gasket has no memory, not enough flex to put enough pressure on the barrel walls to create any vacuum whatsoever and is therefor completely useless.

I can always just remove the white nylon plunger part, fill the pen like an eye-dropper pen as the barrel end where the nibs screw in has a black rubber o-ring inset in a cut groove to seal the section/nib/barrel.

After all, there are many nice large pens that are actually made to work as eye-dropper pens, and this pen should hold a lot of ink when filled that way.

I would, however, really like the vacuum-filling system to work, or the rod connected to the blind cap is going to be there merely for show and no-go.

I suspect the non-functional plunger system may have been a part of the pen design, as if it was made purely for show and not function, as I can't believe this system would have ever worked more than a couple of times [if at all].

 

TIA, oh ye Gurus of pen repair wisdom!

 

~Scott~

[Inka]

I just edited & uploaded some pictures of the plunger gasket, to show what I'm talking about.

Here's a shot looking into the barrel end with the gasket intact, just held in place by a tiny c-clip...

 

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/InkaFX/H.jpg

 

I have tons of tools, no problem getting the c-clip off to remove the nylon gasket, took a steady hand and patience since it's so tiny but I'm used to macro and even micro-work.

This is a shot of the gasket end that's going into the barrel, and the c-clip...

 

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/InkaFX/RotringPG2.jpg

 

Here's a shot showing it has a flanged end, the end that's seen in the shot of it inside the barrel...

 

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/InkaFX/RotringPG1.jpg

 

I'd gently warmed up the nylon in a warm water bath, then gently rolled the flange to get better contact with the barrel walls, as shown here tapering outward more now...

 

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/InkaFX/RotringPG3.jpg

 

It formed a vacuum on the first and ONLY down-stroke, after giving the edge more taper, then when the plunger rod was pulled back out again it lost all memory, no more vacuum whatsoever.

Having designed functional mechanical devices for years, having assembled thousands more than I'd designed, it seems apparent to me this is just a poor design.

If this where a piston filler instead of a plunger filler this gasket would be inadequate, but would likely work better as a piston gasket in some ways.

Seems to me it's more for show, that it was never designed to actually do the job plunger fillers were meant to do, that being able to fill on the down-stroke.

It just doesn't work, was hoping [possibly beyond hope] there's a "fix" out there somewhere.

I tried using a Sheaffer's modern Vacuum-Fil rubber gasket and I did get better vacuum but that's not the point here.

I'd like to hear if this is common with these pens and of the company had ever provided a better solution to make them actually work.

 

Thanks

 

[ZeissIkon]

A limited edition pen is obviously meant to be and remain uninked as a collector's item. Why would it need an actual, functioning filling system?

 

Actually, Inka, try this before you give up: soak that nylon conical piece in room temperature water overnight.

 

Nylon actually absorbs water, and gets stronger and more resilient when it does (with the pen filled, that part would be immersed in ink until nearly empty, so would stay wet). I have a hunch you'll find the nylon's memory improves when it's been wet for a while. If it doesn't, I'd be tempted to make a copy of that piece from RTV silicone to use in actually filling the pen (assuming that's your intention in attempting to repair the filling system). Alternately, a two-piece nylon piston (made from a nylon nut and bolt, the bolt bored through to fit the shaft and the whole thing turned down to a loose fit in the upper barrel and suitable length to be retained in the original location) could retain a valve sheet similar to the leathers used in air pumps for things like Coleman stoves when we were kids (before propane ruined the experience of cooking a meal on a picnic table).

 

BTW, I'd also recommend a stainless E-ring to replace that one...

[Rotomobees]

Scott,

 

Those parts are all Visconti. I disassembled two other power fillers, and they have similar but not identical parts. I wager all the pieces are interchangeable, but someone else will have to verify that. In addition to the nylon seal, the vacuum seems to be kept by an o-ring on top (opposite side of the c-clip). Also the conical nylon piece is solid on the ones I have been able to look at. I like the idea of a little water bath.

 

[Inka]

…Actually, Inka, try this before you give up: soak that nylon conical piece in room temperature water overnight.

Nylon actually absorbs water, and gets stronger and more resilient when it does (with the pen filled, that part would be immersed in ink until nearly empty, so would stay wet). I have a hunch you'll find the nylon's memory improves when it's been wet for a while…

 

Thanks for the suggestions.

I will do everything possible to use only original Rotring/Visconti parts to fix this issue and will never do anything to change the plunger rod or anything else just to get this pen to work.

I’m a stickler for that, always have been, especially when an item is new, mint condition and has never been used as this pen certainly is.

Otherwise it’s going back to Visconti [Rotring made the 1928LE for Visconti in 1998, just before selling the company to I believe it was Stanford/Rubbermaid] and we’ll let Visconti fix it.

This Rotring 1928 LE pen was the last thing Rotring made before they'd sold the company.

 

Thank you, for the suggestions and for trying to help, greatly appreciated!

 

 

Scott,

 

Those parts are all Visconti. I disassembled two other power fillers, and they have similar but not identical parts. I wager all the pieces are interchangeable, but someone else will have to verify that. In addition to the nylon seal, the vacuum seems to be kept by an o-ring on top (opposite side of the c-clip). Also the conical nylon piece is solid on the ones I have been able to look at. I like the idea of a little water bath.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I would like to see some pictures of the Visconti plunger system parts, in various forms, especially the solid one you mention.

Should anyone else see this and have the pictures to show me I would really appreciate it.

I’m not asking you to take pictures, no way, as I know very well how crazy-busy you are.

 

It’s getting late here so I’ll look on the Internet over the weekend to find any Visconti pictures showing the system taken down to its’ components, especially the part/s in question.

 

The pen in my first photo, where you can see the white nylon piece, is just how I got it.

It was just as seen in the picture, no o-ring on top of the nylon part when I’d removed the nib/section for the first time and looked inside.

I did try using an o-ring from a Sheaffer’s packing unit repair kit [it was a good fit against the barrel walls but I’m not sure it’s supposed to “fit” or just sit there].

I’d placed it on top of the nylon part, just as you mention, after removing the tiny o-ring about the size of the c-clip in diameter that was found underneath the white nylon [had to remove that tiny o-ring, to make room for both parts and still get the c-clip back on].

The only thing I can imagine the small o-ring under the nylon part was for was to place the nylon part far enough down the rod as to clear the chamber wall and the edge of the nylon bottom flange breaking the vacuum-seal created by the plunger down-stroke, thus pulling in liquid due to the vacuum created on the down-stroke.

It, unfortunately, also did not work

In the meantime, I will try the room temperature water soaking overnight and see if that helps.

 

Thanks for the information, for the suggestions and for your help!

 

~Scott~

 

[fountainbel]

Very interesting Scott, it really surprises me Rotring build a plunger filler, and even more that it looks to be a bad design !

It would be nice if we could see the plunger rod end with the O ring, cup seal &C-clip assembled;

I expect the Oring behind the plastic cup seal serves as a “check-valve”, avoiding ink would bypass through the cup bore/ plunger rod fit, hence allowing building up vacuum. Friction of the cup seal sealing lip in the barrel ensures enough surfaces pressure between the cup seal back & the (soft?) O ring

In my opinion the plastic has not enough flexibility “memory’ on the long term to return to its original “cupped shape &- as you experienced - will loose its sealing efficiency rather fast.

Alternatively you could make a delrin ring having the identical inner diameter &width of the actual cup ring and an outside diameter 0.2mm smaller as the barrel bore.

On the outside diameter you make a groove for installing an Oring,( the largests section O ring you can install) having 0.2 mm pretension in the barrel.

You’re not altering anything doing so & you can always return to the original set-up.

I’ve tested this approach at an earlier occasion & it works perfectly !

Francis

 

[Inka]

Hi Francis; thanks for the reply!

 

I've put the pen back together again, after soaking the nylon in pure filtered water overnight and still not filling.

Instead of taking it apart again, I tried using MS Paint to diagram how this is all put together; CAD system boxed somewhere and haven't used it in years.

I'm not sure if blind cap unscrews from rod or how it is seated [could be reverse thread, unknown at this point but would [NOT] budge with gentle persuasion] not wanting to force anything for fear of damage.

 

Anyway, here's my poorly [and quickly] executed diagram, done quickly with inferior software [and w/o broken lines I usually draw for unseen portions], but should show you exactly the parts and how the parts go together...

 

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/InkaFX/Rotring-1928-plunger-assemb.jpg

 

P.S.;

I’ve filled pen barrel with filtered water after re-assembly, recapped same, and placed capped pen in a padded/lined glass nib-down. I’m going to let it sit for @ 24 hours and see if water gets absorbed into nylon.

I honestly do not believe the nylon will absorb water and re-seal, although trying it anyway, that’s just not something I’ve ever seen as happening as nylon is not that porous. Seems illogical to me, but trying it anyway.

Edited August 29, 2009 by Inka

[Inka]

Very interesting Scott, it really surprises me Rotring build a plunger filler, and even more that it looks to be a bad design !...

Francis

I was informed the particular Roting fp was made by Rotring for Visconti.

If you click on the following Link, you'll be able to see the animation of how this system is put together and should work.

Look very closely above the white nylon plunger and you may just be able to see what appears might be the tiny black o-ring behind the flanged nylon.

While not shown in the animated diagram, the o-ring is resting on a wider step/section of the plunger rod that's a few millimeters long [haven't measured step length, not able to remove blind cap from rod yet, but looks to be @ 7mm long], then the plunger rod returns to the same diameter of the rest where the o-ring and nylon gasket slide on.

I think the o-ring is there for buffering, maybe to act as a cushion for the nylon, also allowing the flange to pivot ever so slightly as the seal breaks and releases the vacuum formed on the down-stroke.

 

Visconti "Power-Filler" animation...

 

http://www.visconti.it/swf/filling/power/power.html

 

I believe this is the same filling system, not the "Double-Reservoir" system.

[ZeissIkon]

My understanding about water and nylon is that it's more like water of hydration in a crystal than absorption via porosity, as in a sponge. I'm not even sure all nylons have this property; I learned about it relative to nylon frames on a pair of glasses I had most of forty years ago, but there are a number of slightly different polymers that get the label "nylon".

 

Am I correctly reading your drawing to see that both the O-ring and the nylon cone have some end play on the shaft, perhaps half a millimeter? It's tempting to suggest there should be another piece (left out at the factory), a flat sheet of some rubber-like material that's a closer fit in the bore, that would go below the cone -- when you pull up, it would belly to allow air or liquid to pass the cone, then on the push stroke it would flatten, supported by the cone's skirt, and seal against the bore to produce the required vacuum. Of course, with only 1928 of these pens ever made, not much more than ten years ago, you might possibly be the first ever to take one apart...

[fountainbel]

Hi Scott,

 

Thanks for posting the Visconti link, interesting!

 

IMHO it will be very difficult- if not impossible- to get the system as such working in the long run.

 

The small O ring may have a double function in your pen :

 

1- Providing pretension on the ink tank shut-off valve :

 

The cup sealing lip axially contacts the section when the plunger is screwed down.

 

The cup seal being rather hard and not axially flexible, the O ring provides the axial shut-off pretension & also avoids leakage over the seal bore.

 

2- Avoiding axial leakage over the cup seal bore while pushing the plunger down

 

How much backlash is there between the cup seal bore & its plunger seat ?, I may be wrong, but expect 0.1-0.2mm ?

 

In this case one needs the O ring avoiding leakage over the rod & cup seal bore to create the filling vacuum.

 

 

Given the stiff nylon cup seal construction I don’t expect the sealing lip will easily open – allowing the ink to return – when pulling the plunger out.

 

The radial gap between the cup seal bore & the plunger shaft may also allow the ink return in this case

 

 

Attached a rough sketch of a plunger filler seal I’ve tested last year, and which works very well.

 

Make a Delrin piston with the identical internal diameter & length of the cup seal, external diameter 0.2/0.3 mm smaller as the barrel bore, equipped with an O ring having 0.2 mm radial pretension in the barrel bore.

 

You don’t have to alter anything to the pen, simply replace the cup seal by this piston and test it.

 

You could provide 3 small slots in the piston bore as shown, improving the ink return rate when pulling the plunger out.

 

The depth of these grooves should however be limited , ensuring the small O ring’s medium diameter still overlaps.

 

Wishing you success!

 

Francis

 

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h89/fountainbel/rot006.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

7

Very interesting Scott, it really surprises me Rotring build a plunger filler, and even more that it looks to be a bad design !...

Francis

I was informed the particular Roting fp was made by Rotring for Visconti.

If you click on the following Link, you'll be able to see the animation of how this system is put together and should work.

Look very closely above the white nylon plunger and you may just be able to see what appears might be the tiny black o-ring behind the flanged nylon.

While not shown in the animated diagram, the o-ring is resting on a wider step/section of the plunger rod that's a few millimeters long [haven't measured step length, not able to remove blind cap from rod yet, but looks to be @ 7mm long], then the plunger rod returns to the same diameter of the rest where the o-ring and nylon gasket slide on.

I think the o-ring is there for buffering, maybe to act as a cushion for the nylon, also allowing the flange to pivot ever so slightly as the seal breaks and releases the vacuum formed on the down-stroke.

 

Visconti "Power-Filler" animation...

 

http://www.visconti.it/swf/filling/power/power.html

 

I believe this is the same filling system, not the "Double-Reservoir" system.

[Inka]

@ ZeissIkon:

 

I'm still leaving the pure water in the pen barrel, just in case it can indeed help to swell the nylon enough to bring back it's memory.

Lord knows I don't know everything and while it would surprise me should a water soak would work it wouldn't be the first time I'd been amazed by something I learn.

As for the possibility of end-play, there's just enough room to slide the c-clip into the groove, onto the rod, without needing to compress the assembly, so I doubt there's anything missing [again, I could be wrong].

The nylon is soft enough as to flex with liquid in the barrel bore allowing liquid to bypass it and not build up pressure behind the seal.

The problem here is that on the down-stroke, even though the flanged nylon edge presses against the walls it's not strong enough to press hard enough to create a vacuum.

Yeah, with so few of these out there, the law of averages suggests many are no longer serviceable and still many may never have been inked at all, very difficult to find anyone that's using one now or information on the parts line-up.

I'll keep you posted as to whether or not the water soaking helps, given more time.

 

Thanks!

 

___________________________________________________________

 

@ Francis;

 

It didn't occur to me the o-ring could provide a seal to keep air from rushing through the center hole in the gasket, makes sense though.

Using a squeeze bulb filled with air, pen bore filled with water, I created internal pressure and checked the rear seal where the rod runs through from the blind cap to make sure there were no leaks.

Under pressure not a drop of water leaked through the rear seal where the rod comes out of the pen back, a nice tight seal and the plunger rod "lightly" greased with pure fresh silicone helps it slide easily.

I suppose I could fill the squeeze bulb with water, press it against the axial center of the nylon to seal, then see if water does get past the o-ring, another good point.

There is indeed clearance between the center hole and the plunger rod, the nylon drops over the rod without any friction or pressure whatsoever.

The nylon skirt is very soft and pliable, I can open the flanged edge easily with the rounded back edge of a pair of tweezers or my fingernail, and it stays in place flared outward until I run it through the bore again.

Once it runs through the bore on the up-stroke it conforms to the inner walls, not tight just barely rides along smoothly and not strongly enough to created needed vacuum.

It's pliable enough, very pliable and soft along the edges, as where I'd mentioned to ZI water pushes past it readily when pulling the plunger rod outward/upward, just not sealing firmly enough on the down-stroke to work up needed vacuum.

 

I like your designs, always have, was very impressed with you latest plunger filler Demo project and your plunger-fillers, would love to own either of the prototypes.

As for making changes to this pen that involve any bore filing I will not do to this pen, great idea for a working solution I believe but this pen is too precious to me to modify in any way.

I have the tools such as needle-width Swiss pattern files to make such groove, and the experience and expertise to use them, I'm just not going to in this case.

This pen is in pristine condition, not so much as a hairline scratch on the gorgeous celluloid anywhere, the pattern in the material like lines of Mother-of-Pearl, Abalone, or Opal that catch available light beautifully.

Was this a project or prototype pen, something I'd designed and was building, then sure I'd go for it in an instance!

If anything, should I not be able to get the plunger filling system to work as it should, I'm more likely to remove the nylon plunger parts altogether and use this pen as an eye-dropper filler.

There are no clear or transparent viewable areas in the pen body or section to view ink level, but just like the high-end Japanese eye-droppers I've seen pictures of I truly believe this too would make a great candidate as an E-D pen.

 

Thanks for the help, Francis; really, has always been a pleasure to hear your ideas and even better when I've seen them in action once applied!

 

______________________________________________

 

I’ve also written an e-mail to Steve Weill of Visconti USA in NY, asking if the small, inexpensive parts alone can be obtained without having to ship the pen back.

Unfortunately my e-mail was bounced back to me, with a message saying;

“Mail Delivery Warning-

Postmaster@viscontiusa.com-

Delivery of email to this address

steve@viscontiusa.com … has been postponed due to a full mailbox.

 

We will continue to try to deliver your message over the next few days.”

 

Oh well, was worth a try and who knows he may yet reply, hopefully with good news or send the parts for free.

More likely, if I do get a reply, they’ll tell me they need the entire pen back just to replace a part that probably cost them a penny to make.

 

In the meantime, here are a few more pictures of it, took over a dozen already as this pen is simply gorgeous to behold.

I was planning to do a longer review of this pen, with lots of pictures, once I figure out how to repair the filling system that is…

 

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/InkaFX/C.jpg

 

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/InkaFX/I.jpg

 

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/InkaFX/F.jpg

 

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/InkaFX/M.jpg

[fountainbel]

Hi Scott,

Thanks for posting the pictures

Really is a beatifull pen, congratulations !

Note I never suggested to make the small slots in the original cup seal, only in the new delrin piston I've suggested.

I think the mean problem lays in the material of the cup seal, the nylon may be flexible , but the problem -inherent to the material- is the missing "memory" to return to its original outwards flared shape.

Further on ,the nylon has a low friction factor in the barrel, while a rubber cup seal features both a consideraly higher friction and a much better memory to return to its original flared shape.

Paramount factor is that the cup seal's friction in the barrel should be high enough to ensure the cup seal is axially pressed against the back up O ring, preventing any leakage through the gap between plunger rod seat & cup seal bore.

A rubber cup seal -as used by Visconti - features both the neccesary memory & higher friction

As test to check the return "memory" of the seal you could proceed as follows :

Measure the outside diameter of the cup seal after pulling/pushing it a few times up & down with the plunger.

Then flare the cup seal slightly outwards ,measure the flared diameter, install it on the rod & push/pull the plunger a few times up & down..

Measure the diameter again, when the diameter is back to its initial dimension there clearly is a problem, indicating the seal can never work as such.

Alternatively to my piston proposal I would try to buy a Visconti cup seal, at least when they are identical.

Francis

Edited August 30, 2009 by fountainbel

[Inka]

Hi Francis:

 

My mistake, my perception was way off when reading your suggestion to cut the grooves into the bore.

For some reason my mind placed those suggested cuts into the pen barrel bore, which is why I'd said I'd never.

When you explained it again as "I never suggested to make the small slots in the original cup seal", only then did I realize you'd meant the new Delrin piece and not the internal bore of the pen barrel.

I feel embarrassed, apologies for making the perceptual blunder.

What you've suggested makes sense now, after having the night to sleep on it and re-reading it all again fresh.

Unfortunately I no longer have a metal lathe, no ready-access to one either, so cutting the Delrin part with precision would be next to impossible for me at this time.

Great idea, though, had I a small metal lathe I would certainly jump all over this idea and give it a try.

 

As for measuring the nylon flared edge once I put a tapering flange back into the material, then plunging through the pen barrel and taking a new measurement, I've not done so yet.

I can pretty much gauge it by eye, feeling almost 100% certain that the flange does indeed retain the inner barrel bore diameter once it is pressed through the barrel bore, it does not flare outward again as it should.

There's barely enough pressure against the pen bore to make a slight popping noise once the seal is broken on the down-stroke, applying fresh silicone grease makes it no better.

It seems evident to me that the memory is completely gone in the nylon skirt, it becomes almost barrel-shaped or cylindrical and stays that way once I run it through the pen barrel bore even just one single stroke.

 

I haven't ask in the other forum areas yet, Searching too can often take hours, wondering are there any people or places that sell Visconti replacement parts for the Visconti plunger system?

I've seen nibs, boxes, manuals for sale on some Sites but I have no idea if there are distributors or makers of this particular Visconti nylon plunger gasket where I reside in the U.S., or anywhere else for that matter.

I'm still hoping someone that knows where I can get these parts will chime in with contact information, or even better someone actually post here and say they have these nylon plunger parts that I could get from them.

 

I'm thinking about strolling though a few local hardware stores, as there have been many times I've found suitable parts and materials meant for other purposes that actually fill different needs.

If I manage to find anything that works I'll be sure to post back here with the details.

Edited August 30, 2009 by Inka

[fountainbel]

Hi Scott,

I'll make you a Delrin piston equipped with an O ring for free ,if you provide me the following dimensions :

1-Precise inner diameter of the barrel

2-Precise inner diameter & length of the cup seal.

3- Pitch (= medium) diameter of the installed back-up O ring ( alternatily specify the plungerrod diameter were the Oring fits on & the "wire" (=section) diameter of the O ring)

You only have to pay $4'.00 for priority shipment.

I'll ship within 2 days.

Looking forward hearing from you,

 

.Regards, Francis

 

[Inka]

Hi Scott,

I'll make you a Delrin piston equipped with an O ring for free ,if you provide me the following dimensions :...

I'll ship within 2 days.

Looking forward hearing from you,

 

.Regards, Francis

Thank you, I will get to the measurements ASAP and send them your way.

I will be taking them in thousandths of an inch [all my measuring tools, being older L. S. Starrett are calibrated and marked as such, no metric measuring equipment on-hand], then do my best to convert to millimeters so you'll have both.

 

In the meantime, I did find some ore information on a possible U.S. contact for Visconti, here on FPN, as follows:

VISCONTI - USA Distributor

Visconti Fine Writing Inc.

300-2C Route 17 South

Lodi, NJ 07644 USA

T: 973.773.9095

Toll Free: 800.847.2668

E: visconti@viscontiusa.com

W: www.viscontiusa.com

Direct Contact: Ken Jones

T: 202.498.5747

E: kjones5369@gmail.com

FPN ID: kjones5369

 

I've just written and sent an e-mail request to Mr. Ken Jones at above, hoping he'll either be able to send me the white nylon plunger cup or can tell me where I can get same.

I've also requested a new o-ring and new c-clip, as it's been my experience it's always better to replace these parts as well when one part fails, not for pens but on other things I've repaired.

I also made it clear that the white nylon cup seal is the part that's imperative for restored function, the other parts not as badly needed but a good idea to replace now as well to prevent future problems or failures.

 

[fountainbel]

Scott,

Just a thought :

Presuming the Visconti cup seals are dimensionally identical, I would ask not ask for a nylon, but for an actual rubber Visconti replacement.

The nylon version will be "sick in the same bed" after a while, bringing you back were you started.

Francis

 

[Inka]

Scott,

Just a thought :

Presuming the Visconti cup seals are dimensionally identical, I would ask not ask for a nylon, but for an actual rubber Visconti replacement.

The nylon version will be "sick in the same bed" after a while, bringing you back were you started.

Francis

Thank you, I just walked in the door.

I went to Staples after reading on here there was a big sale on sugarcane paper, but alas they had nothing on sale I needed or was looking for when I got there.

 

Anyway, I did get an e-mail reply from Ken Jones, who's listed on the Visconti U.S.A. contact page as their official contact.

His reply was as follows;

"No longer work for Visconti. there is a new distributor. Coles of London in boca raton Florida.

Ken

Sent from my iPhone"

 

Oh well, at least he was decent enough to reply and gave me the correct contact name in the U.S..

Not only that but Coles of London is in Florida, same place I’m at, might be even better!

Since I've already e-mailed Coles of London, I'll wait and see what the reply is and go from there.

 

~Scott~

 

Oh, while I was out I stopped by a hardware store, just ran the isles trying to find something that looked similar to this white nylon plunger.

I found that a black rubber Delta faucet external spray valve looks identical to the pen gasket in every way but size.

A real shame, since had it not been oversized it looked like the prefect solution in getting the Rotring ’28 to fill again, better than ever I’m sure.

So close, no cigar.

[Inka]

UPDATE: IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!!

 

While digging out some old tools, trying to find something completely different than the tools I'd found, I came upon my old machinists' vise and padded it with thick rubber.

Gently locking the Rotring plunger rod into the now padded jaws, I was able to get just enough extra torque on the blind cap to unscrew it in the general counter-clockwise direction, no left-handed threads.

Once I was able to remove the plunger rod for the first time, I was able to get a better looks at the way the rod was machined and the step that holds the o-ring and nylon plunger.

After Rob mentioned his Viscontis having two o-rings, finding no others hiding in the barrel it's obvious now this pen came with only one o-ring.

Maybe the factory did indeed omit one during the assembly process, just like ZI had mentioned maybe it's missing a part, I'm not sure, maybe it only had the one in the design from day 1 and I'm still waiting to hear back from Visconti.

 

 

Well, Francis, here are a few of the pictures you'd asked for, and then some.

I haven't taken the time to take all measurements yet, was too excited to try a few things first after having another night to sleep on what to do next.

Turns out I may not need a Delrin plunger made, at least not yet, but thank you wholeheartedly for the offer as I would have been proud to use anything you've made!

 

Once I was able to get the blind cap to loosen using the padded vise, the cap unscrewed easily...

 

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/InkaFX/Plunger09.jpg

 

... and thus I could also remove the plunger rod for a proper inspection, here's that entire assembly just as it came from the factory.

Not sure if the picture shows, but the flange is the same size as the barrel bore, it retains its' shape to the bore inner diameter once it runs through it and has definitely lost all memory...

 

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/InkaFX/Plunger01.jpg

 

Only one radius-cut groove cut into the plunger rod, where the one o-ring drops into place on the metal shelf ring, the nylon plunger goes against the single o-ring, and then the c-clip holds those two pieces in place when snapped into the groove on the end...

 

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/InkaFX/Plunger02.jpg

 

I have some of the great pre-cut rubber gaskets I'd bought from Ron Zorn, to restore a few Sheaffer's Balance pens, so tried again to use one of those as a "patch" just modified one a bit this time.

I ran a tapered wooden dowel [basically, a toothpick] through the hole and ran the edge over a cut-off wheel to take it down a few notches...

 

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/InkaFX/Plunger03.jpg

 

Side-by-side, a before and after view of the gasket, one as it came from Ron and the smaller once turned to a smaller size, not perfect but close enough for a test-run...

 

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/InkaFX/Plunger04.jpg

 

I even allowed the gasket to roll on one edge, to form a taper outward just like the original white nylon skirting is supposed to have if it wasn't worn out, then ran my fingernail around the skirting to flare it a bit and attached my "patch"...

 

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/InkaFX/Plunger05.jpg

 

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/InkaFX/Plunger06.jpg

 

Now feeling good that this might actually work, I wanted to inspect the rear gasket assembly, looks to me like it might come out with a HEX wrench or TORX driver.

Going to one of a half dozen tool boxes and two machinists' boxes, I found it's actually a #10 TORX and not a HEX, came out easily and made seal inspection a breeze...

 

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/InkaFX/Plunger07.jpg

 

The o-ring underside is a little rough but the center hole is in good, tight shape, looks like it got burned a little by the friction of a dry torque turning into the pen barrel when assembled...

 

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/InkaFX/Plunger08.jpg

 

The o-ring was dry when I'd removed the packing unit, as there was no grease on the o-ring at all, odd since the rod had grease on it so I guess the tight fit just squeegeed it off onto the rod end.

I gave the underside of this o-ring a gentle lube, torqued the assembly gently back into place, and then re-inserted the rod and plunger with my "patch" in place.

 

Taking out one of many 3ml syringes I use for pen cartridge/converter fills and the likes, I filled the pen barrel to where the nib section would seat and eye-balled the amount of water it took to fill.

Now empty of water, I submerged the nib up to the section just as needed for this filling system to work, gave a gentle, even, downward thrust to the blind cap and plunger rod, saw bubbles for the first time!

The amount of water it takes to fill the barrel to the section threads is @ 1.1ml as seen here...

 

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/InkaFX/Plunger10.jpg

 

Removing the nib and section, I pulled out the water the pen had pulled in on its' own for the first time, on the down-stroke just as it's supposed to.

Eye-balling the amount that the pen pulled in, measuring it in the syringe as it came out, I got a .8ml fill on the first shot, or over 2/3 full in a single stroke...

 

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/InkaFX/Plunger11.jpg

 

I have no idea how much ink or liquid other Visconti plunger fillers pull in on a single down-stroke, have only read about and seen what other similar systems can do and none really fill to 100% capacity.

I have seen the Sheaffer's Balance Vacuum-Fil pens I've partially restored average @ 2/3 to @ full 3/4 tops, never getting completely filled [i think that any more may even be an over-fill for these pens, not sure].

 

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/InkaFX/Plunger12.jpg

 

So there you have it, while I try to get OEM nylon or better yet replacement rubber plunger seals and new o-ring/s [plural if indeed one is missing], I now have a working, filling pen!

Time to put her all back together, give it a good, gentle wiping to remove any fingerprints, oils and silicone grease, Q-Tip fuzzies, then figure out what ink I'd like to try for the first-time-fill.

Looks like I won't be using it as an Eye-Dropper filler after all, actually has enough suction now that when I'd placed a finger over the barrel, pressed down the plunger completely, the barrel sucked itself to my fingertip and held!!!

 

Now what ink should I use to Christen the new [and now working] pen.......?

Decisions, decisions...

Too bad all decisions in life couldn't be any harder, than deciding on what ink to use, in a working fountain pen...

 

 

Now if Visconti replies with some really good news, that they'll ship me the replacement parts I need to remove my "patch" and make it work, I couldn't be any happier.

Not only is this a great pen, but a pen that now fills as it should, so I couldn't ask for anything more except the ink to fill it, the paper to write on with it when filled, ....

Wait, I have plenty of that stuff, the inks and the paper that is, so looks to me like I'm good to go now!!!!!!!

Time to write!

Edited August 31, 2009 by Inka

[ZeissIkon]

Hurrah! No matter what Visconti responds, you've got a working, usable pen. Do let us know how it writes!

 

BTW, with that color, I'd be tempted to fill it with a deep, dark green like Noodler's Squeteague or PR Ebony Green.

[Inka]

Hurrah! No matter what Visconti responds, you've got a working, usable pen. Do let us know how it writes!

 

BTW, with that color, I'd be tempted to fill it with a deep, dark green like Noodler's Squeteague or PR Ebony Green.

I will give a writing sample soon, I promise, I've been writing with it without any dry runs or skips so far, on my second page already on a single fill!

This LARGE *RΘtring [*German for Red-Ring, so I've only recently found] nib [not shouting, it's just that big], even though a Fine I'd categorize more like a Japanese Fine tip, almost an EF, it writes smooth as silk w/o any tuning or smoothing.

 

I agree on the color, was thinking about filling it next with my "cloned" blend that matches Coral Sea blue-black from Australia that also looks very much like Squeteague.

You’re reading my mind, awesome.

The color of the celluloid changes with lighting conditions looks like a deep blue Pacific Abalone one moment and a deep green Mother-Of-Pearl or Opal the next depending how the light hits it and what type of lighting.

A green such as my Hunter Green Eternal might look good too, but that's a rather bright florescent green with hints of yellow at times, looks from bright yellow-green to a bright orange to orange-brown under a UV lamp.

 

EDIT: Type-Os, geez, still write better than I type...

Edited August 31, 2009 by Inka