Pelikan Vs Asian Fine Tip Nibs

[transcend]

Would it be fair to say that Pelikans like to flow wet and wide, and that if one wants a superior EF tip, one should opt with the Japanese?

[zuhandensein]

That's what I think. I have just bought an M200 EF and I expect it to write like my Japanese (Pilot) M. My Lamy EF nib was probably broader than my Pilot M. I heard Kaweco's EF is thinner than Pelikan's, but if you are interested in EF nibs I think is a good idea to focus on Japanese brands.

[sargetalon]

Vintage Pelikan EF nibs can be quite fine, some I've seen rivaling the Japanese. The newer nibs have a blobby tipping and the wet nature of the nib generally has them run a bit wider, even the EF's. My finest modern Pelikan is still only between a Japanese fine-medium. Pelikan can be plenty fine but if you need a really fine line, the Japanese nibs are always a safe choice.

[Kugelschreiber]

You could get a Sailor Pro-Gear II with a F or XF nib and pretend its a Pelikan.

 

http://i60.tinypic.com/a299ap.jpg

Edited February 19, 2015 by Kugelschreiber

[playtime]

vintage pelikan EF nibs are truly EF. The modern nibs...... less so.

 

J

[transcend]

You could get a Sailor's Pro-Gear II with a F or XF nib and pretend its a Pelikan.

 

http://i60.tinypic.com/a299ap.jpg

Haha, yes. and we can call it acting, not pretending.

Edited February 19, 2015 by transcend

[transcend]

I don't care about the broader line, I've already seen the width of their EF, it's the writing experience that I can't ascertain.

 

Too late for me. THe order shipped. I needed an EF to complete the nib size family for the m60x anyway.

 

I have a feeling it's going to be underwhelming.

 

So i need to keep lowering the bar of my expectations between now and arrival--It's going to be such a lemon.

[Sandy1]

 

 

Regardless of line width, as far as a writer, taking all else into consideration, is the EF a weak point for (modern) Pelikans?

 

I can attest to the 585/m60x M and B being terrific and their Fine being just ok.

 

Hi,

 

Apart from line width, I really like the one M200 g-p steel EF nib that I have. A slight bit of spring, very smooth, flow is pleasantly on the wet side.

 

That nib appears in the vast majority of Reviews of Blue inks that I've contributed, and it has proven to run very well with a wide range of inks and papers.

 

As for line width - it is a plump Pelikan, giving a line width within hailing distance of a Pilot Fine-Medium:

 

Line B: M200 EF. Line C: C74 SFM.

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN_2013/Ink%20Review%20-%20Pilot%20Blue%20Bottle%202/INK050_zps7a48c4bd.jpg

L → R: Estie + 9550, M200 + EF, C74 + SFM, Sheaffer 330 + M, parker 45 + B, Safari + 1.1

 

If I were to hunt a nib with a fairly specific narrow line width, I'd look to the marques from Japan. But if I wasn't quite so fussy about specific line width for a very narrow nib daily writer, I'd look to a vintage Western nib, with the conical Sheaffer Triumph nibs at the top of my list.

 

Of the vintage Western nibs it seems that the narrowest nibs are firm-rigid Posting nibs - more for making entries in ledgers than cursive writing. Some of the ring top and petite 'lady' pens with almost as narrow nibs are outstanding writers with a bit of spring if not flex. So perhaps there's a purpose-built difference between very narrow nibs on 'work horse' pens and 'personal use' pens.

 

Bye,

S1

 

__ __

Our friends at Classic Fountain Pens have compiled a Table of Tipping Sizes for New Pens: http://www.nibs.com/TippingSizespage.htm

Edited February 19, 2015 by Sandy1

[Bo Bo Olson]

Tell the big lie long enough....The real truth is.the Japanese nibs are miss marked one size. A Western EF is EF**....a Japanese EF= XXF. F=EF, M=F.....and B=M.... Really, Japan doesn't have a real B.

Not talking about the fatter modern B, either.

 

** each company has it's very own standards...+ slop/tolerance. So a F can equal a M, EF=F...or be so close your eye can not tell if it is a Fat F or a Skinny M. One pen company's standard can be 1/2 into an others...an old chart (pre-97) showed Parker fatter than Sheaffer, Sheaffer fatter than Pelikan.

Waterman had two nib standards, one just like Pelikan, the other thinner, except for EF where Pelikan was thinner in both cases.

 

The pen companies standards were set way back in the when....Parker made nibs the sizes it's customers wanted....not Sheaffer's customers. If Parker made Sheaffer size then some one could get confused and buy a Sheaffer instead of a Parker. That was of course in the day of trying & buying in a pen shop and One Man, One Pen.

 

As stated by a fine Japanese poster***....Sailor nibs are fatter than Pilot...so buy only Pilot for spiderweb and baby spiderweb writing.

 

You do have to stay away from Shading inks with skinny nibs ....and do need a supersaturated high maintenance vivid ink to see anything. So you miss half the fun of fountain pens.

 

I have a 605 with a 400n's semi-flex B. I recommend ordering from Penboard de, a semi-flex or 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex EF nib from '50-65.....then you get a stubbish nib with a tad and or a bit of flex....a real nib. (3X tine spread vs a light down stroke....not superflex 4-5-6 or 7 X a light down stroke.)

 

I lucked out and got a EF 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex on a Geha instead of the marked on the body OEF....it is "Japanese" thin. After some thought, decided I did not need an OEF....too small a foot for Shading inks.

 

Vintage German nibs---'50's-65 ('75 for MB) are 1/2 a width narrower than modern; and have some flex. So are the '80's-97 pens which are true regular flex...and the 200.

"True" regular flex in many modern pens are semi-nail now because of the Ham Fisted Ball Point Barbarians.

 

***A fine knowledgeable Japanese poster here, says the Japanese nib is designed for tiny printed Japanese script.

Western is designed for cursive.

If you are a printer....Japanese is the way to go. If you write, then go vintage cursive.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Bo Bo Olson

[transcend]

I feel so deceived.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I expect your nib to be good....could even be 'butter' smooth.

 

Wait until you read a 1000 times....'Pelikan is wider than normal'....and the posters never say what they consider normal.

Nor do they say what era they are talking about.

A rumor never dies.

 

Myths die hard....once there was a myth that piston pens held more than cartridge pens....it did die....I even watched it....helped kill it.

 

Just remember if you only buy Pelikans.....and stay away from those miss marked Japanese pens...you will be good to go....no complaints you can't solve by sending the pen back demanding a nib in the middle of tolerance and not on the edge.

Being in modern days...not the day of One Man; One Pen....just keep buying One Brand.....then a nib will not be too fat or too skinny..... except for tolerance....which is with any and every company.

 

Even with in a brand, Nib size is like playing horseshoes....close enough for grenades....

The main question is is it relatively close to what you want and does it write well.

 

Please read my signature.

You can always send it to a nibmeister and have it made to your very own measurement....of what you, and you alone think an EF should be. If it's a modern Pelikan, you could get an even smaller grind on the top ball of the nib. So you could have your width as EF and a XXF nib all in one.

 

 

 

I sent a MB Woolf back because the M was wide as B on poor paper at the shop....wanting a real B on my better paper...it was as marked a M .......I did not tell them send me a B nib in the middle of tolerance....so I got a B=BB. A Fat B.

 

Of course I have a Mark 1 Eyeball, calibrated for western nibs.

Other folks have a Mark 2 Eyeball, calibrated for Japanese nibs....there for all western nibs but Aurora are 'Fat'.

Depends on what pens you start with.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Bo Bo Olson

[savingbirds]

Yeah, if want to stick to a modern nib and want finer than an EF, you have to get it reground.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Yep....printing Japaneses EF=XXF in cursive writing Western.

 

If you print...go Japanese, if you write...Western....in Japanese is designed to print tiny Japanese script....Western is designed for cursive....even in thin nibs.

[tacitus]

http://blog-imgs-68.fc2.com/s/u/b/subaryu23/haruhi.jpg

 

 

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51nbeBnzf-L.jpg

If you print...go Japanese, if you write...Western....in Japanese is designed to print tiny Japanese script....Western is designed for cursive....even in thin nibs.

 

How true!

 

We Japanese often have to "write" tiny Japanese scripts, which makes me "melancholy (憂鬱)".

Edited February 23, 2015 by tacitus

[ac12]

 

Would it be fair to say that Pelikans like to flow wet and wide, and that if one wants a superior EF tip, one should opt with the Japanese?

 

I feel so deceived.

 

As has been said, each company will define the nib sizes as it wants to, and even within the same company, the size definition can change over time.

 

This is all relative to YOUR baseline, and the pen YOU are familiar with.

 

Example. I use older US Parker pens. The ink line is similar to the Japanese pens, and narrower than current Lamy and Pelikan pens. So my Lamy and Pelikan F nibs are like my Parker M nib.

 

What I am saying is a modern Pelikan XF can be a perfect XF, for you. It may need a nib meister to smoothen it, but it could be just fine.

And then the Japanese XF would be like XXF nibs, to you.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Go semi-vintage or vintage Pelikan for thinner Pelikan nibs....as mentioned, or the 200.

 

AC12.....Finally, some one says what non-Japanese pens he finds thinner than modern Pelikan.

[canibanoglu]

If one wants a superior EF nib, one couldn't do better than Pelikan in my opinion Japanese nibs are getting a lot of attention because pretty much no one writes in cursive anymore and as has been already said Japanese nibs are extremely fine. I have a Sailor Pro Gear Imperial Edition in M and that writes like an EF! It is very smooth but not nearly as comfortable to use when compared to my Pelikans.

 

And Pelikans are wet writers, which also thickens the line the nib puts down. In the end, it all comes down to preference. If you're after a very, very fine nib, go Japanese. They are great pens. But in my (limited compared to other members here) experience, the writing experience is almost never as good as a juicy Pelikan nib. I used to be a fan of EF/F nibs when I was first starting out but I discovered very fast that you're missing out on a big part of the whole fountain pen experience that way. Shading isn't nearly as good, colors don't pop as much and they're never as smooth as a broader nib. And there's nothing quite like wet ink on your letters right after you wrote them.

 

But that's all personal stuff. If you're after the thinnest possible lines with the best possible smoothness in those nibs, Japanese nibs are practically unbeatable. But that doesn't make the nibs superior, at least not according to my definition.

[transcend]

Well, my new 585 in EF came in today and it's better than I expected. Love how I made sure to set the bar really low. I was expecting to be disappointed. It's not wet or scratchy, right out of the box. I dipped it in a greasy blue ink first, so that didn't hurt. But it's running on some fresh JHerbin now and it's crushing the 585 F I have in a slightly older m600.

Very unregrettable purchase.

[prf5]

The line of my new Pelikan m400 extra fine and my Pilot Vanishing Point medium were almost identical. I sent the Pelikan to a nibmeister and bought a fine nib for the VP, then put it away. In the meantime, I have become fond of inexpensive Asian pens. When the Pelikan comes back it will have to compete for a place.

Edited February 27, 2015 by prf5

[maverick777]

I find Pelikan EF to be exactly the same as my Pilot FM. This is a very good line width even for small handwriting. However, a Pilot F is even finer. I don't have an Japanese EF to compare, but here are some writing samples of the nibs I have. You can see the Japanese F is noticeably finer than all the other nibs. So if you want finer nibs, Japanese pens are the way the go unless you want to pay a nibmeister to grind down a nib for you.

 

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/PdZQWVh.jpg