Help With Identification Please.

[Dave at penworkshop]

Am looking for help with the identification of this Waterman please.

 

Have looked at all my usual sources but have drawn a blank at the moment.

 

Made in France - measures 133mm closed - push on cap.

 

Plastic pen of only very average quality - seems strange that it would have an 18ct nib.

 

Also doesn't take standard size Waterman cartridges or a normal Waterman converter both of which just fall out.

 

Have got two of them, exactly the same.

 

Have spent a fair bit of time on this so any info would be much appreciated please.

[Xof72000]

It's a Waterman "Ligne 60" man size.

The lady size is smaller and has a number "2" nib.

[Dave at penworkshop]

Thanks for that Xof72000 - I see it now.

 

Assume I am right in thinking that it will take the same cartridge/converter as a CF and therefore be very difficult to find.

[Matlock]

Thanks for that Xof72000 - I see it now.

 

Assume I am right in thinking that it will take the same cartridge/converter as a CF and therefore be very difficult to find.

Penbox have CF converters for £14.99. I have bought several for my Waterman CFs and DGs.

[Xof72000]

Thanks for that Xof72000 - I see it now.

 

Assume I am right in thinking that it will take the same cartridge/converter as a CF and therefore be very difficult to find.

 

 

No, I think it's taking "N°23" cartridges : they were the standard before Waterman changed it ...

[Dave at penworkshop]

Thanks for that Matlock - will order a couple.

 

The last time I looked for CF converters there were none available anywhere so it's good to see that things seem to have improved.

[Dave at penworkshop]

Have just tried an old CF cartridge in the Ligne 60 and it seems to fit ok.

 

Will order a couple of CF converters - I can always use them anyway.

 

Many thanks

[Dave at penworkshop]

You were right Xof72000 - the CF cartridges and converters are not right for the Ligne 60.

 

I have some No 23 cartridges on the way to me so will post again when they have arrived and I have tried them.

[RMN]

 

 

No, I think it's taking "N°23" cartridges : they were the standard before Waterman changed it ...

One learns every day.

 

Does that mean that Waterman had 4 different cartridges?

 

1 the Glass ones

 

2 the no. 23 ones

 

3 the C/F

 

4 the current?

 

(and 5 I believe they had one of their pens, the Ici-et-la taking the short international standard)

 

 

D.ick

[Xof72000]

Not all at the same period, D.ick, and not all for the same market should I say : the CF came with the launching of the CF pen (1953 if I remember well).

The glass cartridges were made by JIF first, in the 1930's, and mostly for the french market (as JIF was the french distributor or the brand).

It's quite a mix after that : some french Waterman period pens were using the CFcartridges, and some the new "23" model.

After words (can't date it properly... in the 1970's ?? ... later ??) Waterman gave up the "23" cartridges for the new standard.

[Xof72000]

You were right Xof72000 - the CF cartridges and converters are not right for the Ligne 60.

 

I have some No 23 cartridges on the way to me so will post again when they have arrived and I have tried them.

 

Thank's for confirming penworkshop, that will clear my mind as well !

[pajaro]

Thank you for identifying my pen before I asked -- a blue pen with the No. 2 nib -- a Ligne 60 lady size. No. 23 cartridges.

 

Thanks again.

[Dave at penworkshop]

Unfortunately I have to report that my frustrations with trying to find a cartridge to fit the Waterman Ligne 60 continue.

 

The Waterman '23' cartridges arrived but don't fit. In fact there seems to be no difference between a '23' cartridge and a modern Waterman standard cartridge. They appear to be exactly the same size and shape. Picture is attached - the upper cartridge is the '23' and the lower the modern standard cartridge.

 

The '23' doesn't really match the diagram on the box which is more CF style but I don't know if the diagram is supposed to be an accurate representation. From my research the '23' cartridges received do appear to be genuine and correct.

 

Any further help/suggestions would be much appreciated please.

Edited August 9, 2014 by penworkshop

[Xof72000]

Waouh ... another mystery to solve ... : for me, "23" model cartridges have this shape :

 

http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i404/Xof72000/SAM_1456.jpg

 

(sorry for the bad picture).

 

 

Has there been 2 kind of "23" cartridges ? Or 2 different names at 2 different period ?

I will have to take a look, but I think I have some of those cartridges left somewhere in my mess ... I could send some to you, Penworkshop, if you want to.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Xof72000

[Dave at penworkshop]

That would be excellent Xof2000 and very much appreciated. I have two of these pens and would really like to get them into working order.

 

If you could email me via my website I can provide contact details.

 

Many thanks

[Left FPN]

I have a couple of 23 boxes as per post #13 and the cartridges they contain are identical to the current, modern, std.

 

Edit: My 1988 catalogue shows the current (modern) cartridge on a 23 box.

 

What does the 88 stand for on the 'real' 23 box.

 

What does 23 stand for.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Force

[RMN]

Unfortunately I have to report that my frustrations with trying to find a cartridge to fit the Waterman Ligne 60 continue.

 

The Waterman '23' cartridges arrived but don't fit. In fact there seems to be no difference between a '23' cartridge and a modern Waterman standard cartridge. They appear to be exactly the same size and shape. Picture is attached - the upper cartridge is the '23' and the lower the modern standard cartridge.

 

The '23' doesn't really match the diagram on the box which is more CF style but I don't know if the diagram is supposed to be an accurate representation. From my research the '23' cartridges received do appear to be genuine and correct.

 

Any further help/suggestions would be much appreciated please.

Note that the cartridges portrayed at the bottom of the box do NOT resemble the drawing on the box. They indeed look as regular ones.

If you see the cartridge shown by Xof72000, the narrow neck is much longer.

 

 

I am not familiar with these old carts, so I can't say more about them.

 

D.ick

[Dave at penworkshop]

The Waterman '23' cartridges have arrived from Xof72000 and fit perfectly, so the

mystery is finally solved.

 

I have attached a picture to show the fitted cartridge, box etc.

 

Am delighted to have the two Ligne 60s working and am extremely grateful to Xof72000 for his help and generosity.

[RMN]

Looking good, penworkshop. "All is well that ends well"

 

 

D.ick

[Xof72000]

 

Am delighted to have the two Ligne 60s working and am extremely grateful to Xof72000 for his help and generosity.

 

 

My pleasure, Paul !