Thoughts On Vintage Powdered Ink

[dcwaites]

Recent discussion on the FPN about powdered ink prompted me to put this together --

 

On of my interests in writing with pens and inks is recreating the experience of writing with dip pens. That needs three things — appropriate paper, dip pens from that time, and ink from that time. There is very little truly vintage liquid ink for dip pens available that is still in good condition, and what there is available is usually quite expensive. However, vintage powdered inks still turn up, and it is a simple matter to dilute them up to make an accurate vintage ink for dip pens.

These inks were designed to be used in inexpensive clerical dip pens such as the M. Myers and Son Post Office Pen. These pens were generally very wet, and the inks for them had a very low saturation.

The examples of powdered inks that I have include sachets of Blue-Black dye inks from the Thistle Chemical Co. and Angus & Co., a small container of iron-gall Blue Black from Webster Diamine, and a couple of powdered inks from Simpson, one Black and one Turquoise.

All of these inks, when made up according to directions, are suitable for wet dip pens, like the M. Myers P.O. Pen and the Brandauer Scribbler. However, they can be used in inexpensive pens like Platinum Preppys, but at a higher concentration. The Thistle and Angus inks need to be 3 times more concentrated and the Simpson powdered inks need to be 1 1/2 to 2 times more concentrated. The nibs of the fountain pens may also need to be adjusted to be quite wet.

Sadly, and it may partly be due to a rise of interest in Wicca (with people wanting to write spells with dip pens and inks) it is getting increasingly difficult to find packets of vintage ink powder available on eBay.

 

Below are images of some of the inks I have been discussing, in various pens.

 

 

 

 

The paper is Fuji Xerox Sustainable Environment 85gsm Copy Paper. There is no feathering visible and there is no bleeding or show-through visible on the back.

 

[amberleadavis]

Thank you!!!!!!

[SamCapote]

I love my powdered inks. I think I have found 5-6 different brands over the years. Several others as tablets.

[Ink Stained Wretch]

I have some Thistle Blue/Black. There was an alert here some years ago and I bought some from a guy in Australia for a good price.

 

You say people are buying these things for "magic" spell writing?

 

What are the other powdered inks that are around today? I only ever got the Thistle Blue/Black.

 

And I do think on occasion when I'm writing with it about how this ink was used before I was born.

 

BTW, I think I recall the Thistle Blue/Black powdered ink packets having been said to be from before the war, but it was not clear then if that meant before World War II or before World War I. Any new information on that?

 

[flyingfox]

Here in Philly, you can buy "Write you own Declaration of Independence" and "Write your own U.S. Constitution" gift set at random gift shops. Those includes a quill, ink powder in a bottle (supposedly it is pre-measured, so that you just have to fill the bottle with water to come up with ink,) parchment-like paper, and the writing sample. Supposedly they are made from the same ingredients from back in the days...

 

Hmm, it'd be better if the wiccan- wanna-bes and Harry Potter aficionados would stick with the replica, and leave the authentic one for the OP!

[fiberdrunk]

Awesome inks, dcwaites!

 

I bought some 19th century ink powder on eBay two years ago called Thayer's Wonderful Jet Black Ink Powder. I don't think I ever got around to posting about it. It came in this little paper package with instructions, along with some old timey advertisements and a page of recipes (including an iron gall ink one). It came with a lot of stuff for one little envelope of powdered ink (and the powder is enough to make one gallon's worth)! The ink is waterproof, so I'm wondering if it's iron gall. This is such a fun piece of history!

 

So I'm all for a new generation of ink powders (one can dream right?) Powdered inks apparently have one distinct advantage that bottled inks do not: longevity.

 

Here are the photos:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To see larger versions, go to my Flickr.

Edited April 25, 2014 by fiberdrunk

[dcwaites]

I posted a brief comparative review of my powdered inks here

 

The colour is a bit off, my scanner's pot of green is a bit low, so for an accurate view, please put on your green sunnies.

[Randal6393]

Hi, fibredrunk, great to see your entry here.

 

Doubt the Thayer's is an iron-gall, doesn't look like iron-gall in the photo and the flyer claims it will not corrode your pen. Most IG inks, even the best, tend to the acidic side and are definitely in the corrosive camp, to some extent. Else the chemistry won't work and bind to the paper. (OK, chemists, tell me where my reasoning is faulty.)

 

The IG recipe in the flyer looks good but requires logwood and doesn't use fish-glue. Thus, the resulting ink would not have the "over-the-centuries" quality that IG is famous for. There are several chapters in Forty Centuries of Ink that describes how and why IG works. Well worth a read.

 

Enjoy,

Edited April 27, 2014 by Randal6393

[fiberdrunk]

Hi, fibredrunk, great to see your entry here.

 

Doubt the Thayer's is an iron-gall, doesn't look like iron-gall in the photo and the flyer claims it will not corrode your pen. Most IG inks, even the best, tend to the acidic side and are definitely in the corrosive camp, to some extent. Else the chemistry won't work and bind to the paper. (OK, chemists, tell me where my reasoning is faulty.)

 

The IG recipe in the flyer looks good but requires logwood and doesn't use fish-glue. Thus, the resulting ink would not have the "over-the-centuries" quality that IG is famous for. There are several chapters in Forty Centuries of Ink that describes how and why IG works. Well worth a read.

 

Enjoy,

I love that Forty Centuries of Ink book-- I have a copy of it. Are you an ink maker, too? I actually prefer not to use logwood in my iron gall inks, or use any other additives beyond the basics (tannic/gallic acid, iron sulfate, distilled water and gum Arabic), mainly based on the work of the chemist mentioned in that book (Stark). He said those sorts of additives introduced instability to the ink over time. I base my own recipes off Stark's. Great to see another fan of that book!

 

Now that I think about it, the writing sample of the Thayer's ink probably isn't iron gall, as you mention. I haven't noticed additional darkening on the page yet. I'll hang a sample in a sunny window and see if it turns brown over time. That'd give another clue to verify it.

[ellenspn]

I love that Forty Centuries of Ink book-- I have a copy of it. Are you an ink maker, too? I actually prefer not to use logwood in my iron gall inks, or use any other additives beyond the basics (tannic/gallic acid, iron sulfate, distilled water and gum Arabic), mainly based on the work of the chemist mentioned in that book (Stark). He said those sorts of additives introduced instability to the ink over time. I base my own recipes off Stark's. Great to see another fan of that book!

 

 

Not to mention that logwood has become prohibitively expensive to get a hold of.

[Randal6393]

I love that Forty Centuries of Ink book-- I have a copy of it. Are you an ink maker, too? I actually prefer not to use logwood in my iron gall inks, or use any other additives beyond the basics (tannic/gallic acid, iron sulfate, distilled water and gum Arabic), mainly based on the work of the chemist mentioned in that book (Stark). He said those sorts of additives introduced instability to the ink over time. I base my own recipes off Stark's. Great to see another fan of that book!

 

Now that I think about it, the writing sample of the Thayer's ink probably isn't iron gall, as you mention. I haven't noticed additional darkening on the page yet. I'll hang a sample in a sunny window and see if it turns brown over time. That'd give another clue to verify it.

Fibredrunk, no, I am a user, not maker, of ink. But I am always looking for a better ink. Now, if you ever decide to sell some of your iron-gall formulations ...

 

Isenglass! That's the technical name for fish-glue that I can never remember! Along with the blue solution from soaking galls and iron sulphate, it is the major ingredient in a long-lasting ink. In addition to an additive for IG inks, it also appears in the better quality carbon-based ink sticks. Have you had any experience with using that instead of gum arabic?

 

Enjoy,

 

PS: In addition to writing, I love knitting. Make my own sweaters and socks. Now that I have a granddaughter (two years old), I am back to making sweaters for little girls.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Randal6393

[fiberdrunk]

 

PS: In addition to writing, I love knitting. Make my own sweaters and socks. Now that I have a granddaughter (two years old), I am back to making sweaters for little girls.

 

Yay! Another knitter, too!

[amberleadavis]

Awesome inks, dcwaites!

 

I bought some 19th century ink powder on eBay two years ago called Thayer's Wonderful Jet Black Ink Powder. I don't think I ever got around to posting about it. It came in this little paper package with instructions, along with some old timey advertisements and a page of recipes (including an iron gall ink one). It came with a lot of stuff for one little envelope of powdered ink (and the powder is enough to make one gallon's worth)! The ink is waterproof, so I'm wondering if it's iron gall. This is such a fun piece of history!

 

So I'm all for a new generation of ink powders (one can dream right?) Powdered inks apparently have one distinct advantage that bottled inks do not: longevity.

 

Here are the photos:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To see larger versions, go to my Flickr.

 

 

I just found one and bought it, and dang it the instructions aren't different. I'm supposed to boil the water and mix it when it is "blood warm" before straining it.

[Tas]

I love them!

Just loaded an Ahab with some Webster's ENIDAMA. Ooo, very vintage looking. I'll scribble something down and post in a moment (when I've cleared up the mess)

[Tas]

Apologies for the quality, I'm not in the "zone" today . . .

 

http://www.taskyprianou.com/fpn_websters_enidima_powdered_ink_rhodia.jpghttp://www.taskyprianou.com/fpn_websters_enidima_powdered_ink_swatch.jpghttp://www.taskyprianou.com/fpn_ambers_thistle_2.jpg

[Cyber6]

Nice color Tas... The ink looks really dry thou..

[amberleadavis]

Thistle was the one that was a dry powder only - and we will do it again - I added phenol.

 

Unobtanium Thistle was Thistle and phenol with Toucan Blues (two of them), and a blue dye mix. It can't be made again.

[Tas]

Nice color Tas... The ink looks really dry thou..

 

It is very dry but hey that's what wet pens are made for.

I also didn't really go about scientifically mixing the stuff, I just went for a nice colour. I'm convinced it'll resemble the Thistle stuff at "advised" dilution levels.