Parker Vacumatic Maxima?

[Lazard 20]

  On 2/13/2014 at 4:03 AM, kirchh said:

Here are two Vacumatics:

 

http://home.comcast.net/~kirchh/Misc/Long_Major/Long_Major_and_Slender_Maxima.jpg

 

Now, Lazard, if these pens are both 135mm long, and if they are both from the second quarter of 1940, would you claim they are the same model -- the Slender Maxima?

--Daniel

 

It is a year in not question but as an simple "observer of imprint and bands", if you are so kind, could you upload a photo of the limiting engraving area? I also like to see the 1940 second cuarter imprint of azure blue. Thanks in any case.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Lazard 20

[FarmBoy]

  On 2/13/2014 at 9:02 AM, Lazard 20 said:

It is a year in not question but as an simple "observer of imprint and bands", if you are so kind, could you upload a photo of the limiting engraving area? I also like to see the 1940 second cuarter imprint of azure blue. Thanks in any case.

Perhaps a picture uncapped would help.

[kirchh]

  On 2/13/2014 at 7:12 AM, Lazard 20 said:

 

  On 2/13/2014 at 12:23 AM, kirchh said:

 

Now you are simply being dishonest.

 

Someone could understand that these adjectives ad hominem reflect the absence of your arguments.

 

Here is a post, here is another, and here is a third.in which you showed several pictures of pens from 1939, 1940, and 1941 and claimed they were Slender Maximas: "Some nice examples of Maximas (Slender if we want last name)." None of those pens is "after 1941."

 

Are you now retracting all those identifications? Do you now admit that those 135mm pens you showed from 1939, 1940, and 1941 with the narrower cap band are actually Majors, not Slender Maximas?

 

I have written to keep calling them Slender Maxima as simple collector name.

 

You are being very dishonest, and evasive.

 

Increasing the tone of personal adjectives someone could understand that reflect the absence of your arguments.

 

I didn't ask you to show Majors "after 1941". I specifically asked you to show Majors from late-1938 through 1941 next to Slender Maximas from the same time period.

 

You have claimed that there are thousands of pictures of Majors from that time period showing them to be 127mm long. Yet, you cannot produce a single such picture.

 

Why?

 

Why? Oh yes, now I remember, I'm talking about, again, from 1941 and afther so I understand that your claim will not be successful.

 

You collect Vacumatics. Majors are very common models. Surely, therefore, you have many Majors from 1939, 1940, and 1941. Yet, you refuse to post pictures of them showing the date codes and length.

 

Why?

 

B´cause I'm talking about, again, from 1941 and afther so I understand that your claim will not be successful.

 

 

Why are you unable to post pictures of Majors from 1939, 1940, and 1941 next to Slender Maximas from the same years?

 

B´cause I'm talking about, again, from 1941 and afther. It is possible that at some point you've lost so I understand that your claim will not be successful.

 

Such a simple request. Yet, you continue to evade it.

 

B´cause I'm talking about, again, from 1941 and afther so I understand that your claim will not be successful.

 

Again, you are being very dishonest. I never asked for a link to a site showing single or double verticals. I am very disappointed in this obvious evasion.

 

Increasing the tone of personal adjectives someone could understand that reflect the absence of your arguments.

 

You claimed that pens from 1939, 1940, and 1941 that are slender and 135mm long and having the narrow cap band and smaller nib are Slender Maximas. You do not dispute that there are Slender Maximas from 1939, 1940, and 1941 that have the wider cap band and the larger nib; your own catalog illustrations show this. You claim that Parker was offering these two different models at the same time for several years and calling both models the Slender Maxima and selling both for the same price.

 

Here is a post, here is another, and here is a third.in which you showed several pictures of pens from 1939, 1940, and 1941 and claimed they were Slender Maximas: "Some nice examples of Maximas (Slender if we want last name)." None of those pens is "after 1941."

 

I´m claim nothing about this years and I have written to keep calling them Slender Maxima as simple collector name.

 

Or do you still claim that the slender 135mm-long pens with narrower cap bands and smaller nibs from 1939, 1940, and 1941 are Slender Maximas, and the pens of the same dimensions from the same years but with the wider cap bands and larger nibs are also Slender Maximas?

 

I´m claim nothing about this years.

 

How long was the Major in 1939, 1940, and 1941?

 

As I have hinted that will only matter to you.

 

Where are all these thousands of pictures of 127mm-long Majors from those years?

 

Manufactured years 42, 43 and following with 127 mm, and a single vertical chevron band there dozens of them daily on eBay, for example. There are also some more in the website that I linked for you and any specialized web site and, of course, in the next PenShow you visit.

 

But you're confused. The 127 mm of years in cuestion are Major and with only "|" one vertical generally. Please remind we are talking only about 1941 and following, with 135 mm total, 61 mm long cap, 13,5 diameter in cap band and "||" verticals limiting engraving area. (Please center yourself on these considerations because I quote the 127 mm with 1 vertical of years in cuestion only and precisely to distinguish them from 135 mm double vertical, just for that).

 

How long was the Major in 1939, 1940, and 1941?

 

This group of years is not in debate

 

How dishonest. Now you refer to 1942 ads and pricing that is not in dispute.

 

It was deemed necessary so that readers could be satisfied that in 1942 there were 3 diferent prices >= $8,75 . ¿Debutante-debutante band, Major-1 vertical band and Maxima-2 verticals bands? On the other hand you do not need to resort to adjectives to argue

 

But you claimed that Majors from 1939, 1940, and 1941 are 127mm long, not 135mm long.

 

This group of years is not in debate

 

You are also being terribly evasive. What about 1940? What about 1941?

 

I could be elusive with aspects that is not in dispute but it is also possible, because absence of your arguments, you find me evasive.

 

Where are these thousands of pictures of 127mm-long Majors from those years that you claimed existed? Where are the pictures of all your 127mm-long Majors from 1939, 1940, and 1941?

 

1939 and 1940 are not concerned as I have been repeatedly saying. 1941 and following Majors I will send a few when I have a moment to photograph them. Quiet, calm.

 

Why did you claim that the pens you showed from 1929, 1940, and 1941 with narrow bands are Slender Maximas, when the catalog pictures you posted from those same years show the Slender Maxima with a wide band?

 

Why won't you address these simple questions?

 

Simply b´cause 1940 does not matter and 1929 , unless.

 

You have no evidence. Your claim fails. Completely.

 

No comments.

 

--Daniel

 

 

Lazard:

 

Your frantic attempt to run away from your own words is unsuccessful.

 

You are now pretending that you have never made any claims about the designations of Vacumatics from 1939, 1940, and 1941.

 

Unfortunately for you, this forum retains your earlier posts, which prove that your effort to completely change your position is founded on a falsehood.

 

Let me be more specific, so there is no misunderstanding:

 

You now say,

 

  Quote

 

False. We are talking about vacumatic afther 1941

 

Incorrect. We are talking about vacumatic afther 1941.

 

We are not talking about years in which catalogs are known [1939, 1940, 1941]

 

I do not claim anything and even less about 1938-1941.

 

Oh yes, now I remember, I'm talking about, again, from 1941 and afther

 

I'm talking about, again, from 1941 and afther

 

I'm talking about, again, from 1941 and afther. It is possible that at some point you've lost

 

I'm talking about, again, from 1941 and afther

 

I´m claim nothing about this years [1939, 1940, 1941]

 

This group of years is not in debate [1939, 1940, 1941]

 

1939 and 1940 are not concerned as I have been repeatedly saying

 

Simply b´cause 1940 does not matter

 

 

All of these statements of yours are false.

 

The proof is in this post of yours, this post of yours, and this post of yours, in which you showed several pictures of pens from 1939, 1940, and 1941 and claimed they were Slender Maximas: "Some nice examples of Maximas (Slender if we want last name)."

 

Thankfully, any reader who sees this thread can read your earlier posts and discover that you are trying to change your story to pretend that you never identified the pens in those posts as Slender Maximas. Therefore, your attempt to deceive is doomed to failure.

 

Only you can possibly know why you would choose to engage in this sort of dishonesty when it is so easily exposed. Perhaps you do not realize the further damage you are doing to your reputation as a researcher of fountain pens, but I can assure you, that damage is considerable.

 

I find it quite sad that rather than face the truth, you chose this path instead. I urge you to reconsider your decision to be dishonest about what you previously wrote.

 

--Daniel

Edited February 13, 2014 by kirchh

[kirchh]

http://home.comcast.net/~kirchh/Misc/Long_Major/Long_Major_and_Slender_Maxima.jpg

 

 

  On 2/13/2014 at 9:02 AM, Lazard 20 said:

 

It is a year [1940] in not question

 

False.

 

in this post of yours, this post of yours, and this post of yours you showed several pictures of pens from 1940 and claimed they were Slender Maximas: "Some nice examples of Maximas (Slender if we want last name)."

 

What was Parker's model name for the pen on the left? Assume it has the cap band with two vertical lines ("||").

 

--Daniel

[Lazard 20]

First of all, thank you for absence of personal references. It is appreciated.

 

 

Thankfully, any reader who sees this thread can read your earlier posts and discover that you are trying to change your story to pretend that you never identified the pens in those posts as Slender Maximas.

 

There is no inconsistency if you read from the beginning necause Slender Maxima as "Lazard name", in certain time, equals Long Major "collector´s name". ("My" name is clearer following year, prettier, "more Parker´s name" and avoids talking about other absurds -in my opinion-- terms like "true fountain pen", "false fountain pen" or "Fat Long Major" )

 

It is a year [1940] in not question. False.

 

For me there is no question so wrong or simply false on your part.

 

this post of yours, this post of yours, and this post of yours you showed several pictures of pens from 1940 and claimed they were Slender Maximas: "Some nice examples of Maximas (Slender if we want last name)."

 

As I said before I am not in behalf of the appointment "Long Major" of some collectors so, I have written and say you now newly I want to keep calling this vacs Slender Maxima as simple collector name and you can not claim not know it because before you going in this post I had already written:

"Posted 19 December 2013 - 20:59

SLENDER MAXIMA (Long Major is a term misused and improper" (as collector name if you want).

And I explained why and why I prefer to call them Slender Maxima -as mere collector name if you want- and why I think Parker would never use the model name LM.

Is difficult to understand your insistence on this point again and again when I say I'm interested in the "dark years of the vacs" and you know there are catalogs of 1940 and 1940 too is reflected in the famous "Vacumatic" book. I am interested from the time, 1941/2 and following -the fpen post object is 1945-, wherein looks the "51" and are shaded Vacumatic ringed and the Vacumatic book no comment ringed vacs b´cause they focuses on "51" the following years and marketing ads too. Adicionally there are also evidence in others fountain pen forums with post before this where I refused the term "Long Major" invented by collectors. It's nothing new. It is rather old. Sorry if you understood other thing.

 

What was Parker's model name for the pen on the left? Assume it has the cap band with two vertical lines ("||").

 

You say it's 1940 and I say that 1940 is not a question for me.

 

(I will give my opinion on this matter when and where I consider appropriate and after increasing samples of "| |" chevron band -regardless of the name that collectors grant them, by the way -. At the moment I'm only openly interested in checking if "| |" vertical chevron bands vacs of "dark years" measured 135 mm. Its to say, aprox. as Maxima and not as Major, or not.

 

That's a Major... Notice the larrower cap band.

 

" In 1942 came the last of the Vacumatic filling systems... The cap band of the Maxima was narrowed to the same width as that of the Major (app 4 mm)."

 

taken from http://parkerpens.net/vacumatic.html

 

Yourself.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Lazard 20

[ANM]

From everything I have learned about the subject, Parker made a Major for a year and part of another year that was longer than any Major they made before or after it. While they made that particular Major, they didn't make a shorter one. That is the pen that collectors refer to a "long Major" even though Parker never used that term. At the same time they made a Slender Maxima that was the same length and girth as the Major but gave it a wider cap band and bigger nib. As far as I know, all Slender Maximas had a wider cap band and larger nib than all Majors. That is one sure way to tell them apart.

[kirchh]

  On 2/13/2014 at 10:23 PM, Lazard 20 said:

 

  On 2/13/2014 at 3:29 PM, kirchh said:

 

There is no inconsistency if you read from the beginning necause Slender Maxima as "Lazard name", in certain time, equals Long Major "collector´s name".

 

 

 

Wrong.

 

You have claimed that Parker called the long slender pen with the narrower cap band and smaller nib the "Slender Maxima" in 1939, 1940, and 1941, and that it was sold for $10.00.

 

I, and other collectors, have claimed that Parker called the long slender pen with the narrower cap band and smaller nib the "Major" (collector name, "Long Major"), and that it was sold for $8.75.

 

The two positions are completely incompatible.

 

Are you now retracting your claim that Parker called this pen the "Slender Maxima" and sold it for $10.00?

 

  Quote

 

It is a year [1940] in not question. False.

 

For me there is no question so wrong or simply false on your part.

 

I understand that for you, there is no question that the 135mm-long pen with narrower band made in 1940 was called "Slender Maxima" by Parker. You've demonstrated that in this post of yours, this post of yours, and this post of yours, where you showed several pictures of such pens from 1940 and claimed they were Slender Maximas: "Some nice examples of Maximas (Slender if we want last name)."

 

However, I disagree.

 

That's why it's in question in this discussion.

 

Here's how this works:

 

You make a claim, then someone else disagrees with your claim, That means your claim is in question.

 

Here's your claim:

 

Parker Vacumatics made were made in 1940 that are slender and 135mm long, and that have a narrower cap band and smaller nib, were called "Slender Maxima" by Parker and sold for $10.00.

 

You made that claim in this post of yours, in this post of yours, and in this post.

 

I questioned your claim. I say Parker called that model the Major, and sold it for $8,75. Therefore, that year, 1940, is in question.

 

You have provided no evidence for your claim that Parker called that model the Slender Maxima. However, you have provided evidence that they did not; you showed a 1940 catalog depiction of the Slender Maxima that shows it with a wider cap band:

 

http://home.comcast.net/~kirchh/Misc/Long_Major/1940_Lazard_Detail.jpg

 

  Quote

[in] this post of yours, this post of yours, and this post of yours you showed several pictures of pens from 1940 and claimed they were Slender Maximas: "Some nice examples of Maximas (Slender if we want last name)."

 

As I said before I am not in behalf of the appointment "Long Major" of some collectors so, I have written and say you now newly I want to keep calling this vacs Slender Maxima as simple collector name and you can not claim not know it because before you going in this post I had already written:

"Posted 19 December 2013 - 20:59

SLENDER MAXIMA (Long Major is a term misused and improper" (as collector name if you want).

And I explained why and why I prefer to call them Slender Maxima -as mere collector name if you want- and why I think Parker would never use the model name LM.

 

Whether or not you like or dislike the collector term "Long Major" is irrelevant.

 

The question is whether the 135mm-long slender pen with narrow cap band and smaller nib offered in 1939, 1940, and 1941 was the pen called the Major by Parker, or whether it was the pen called the Slender Maxima by Parker.

 

You claimed it was the pen called the Slender Maxima by Parker, and that it couldn't be the pen sold as the Major, because the Major from those years was 127mm long.

 

Are you now retracting your claim?

 

Are you now saying that the pen was called the Major by Parker, but you have decided to call it the Slender Maxima anyway?

 

  Quote

 

Is difficult to understand your insistence on this point again and again when I say I'm interested in the "dark years of the vacs" and you know there are catalogs of 1940 and 1940 too is reflected in the famous "Vacumatic" book. I am interested from the time, 1941/2 and following -the fpen post object is 1945-, wherein looks the "51" and are shaded Vacumatic ringed and the Vacumatic book no comment ringed vacs b´cause they focuses on "51" the following years and marketing ads too. Adicionally there are also evidence in others fountain pen forums with post before this where I refused the term "Long Major" invented by collectors. It's nothing new. It is rather old. Sorry if you understood other thing.

 

What you are "interested in" is irrelevant. What is relevant is what you said. And in this post of yours, this post of yours, and this post of yours, you showed several pictures of pens from 1939, 1940, and 1941 and claimed they were Slender Maximas: "Some nice examples of Maximas (Slender if we want last name)." it doesn't matter if you were "interested" in pens from those years; you posted about them.

 

You also stated that those long slender pens with narrower cap bands and smaller nibs from those years were not Majors, because the Major from those years was 127mm long. You claimed that there were thousands of pictures of 127mm Majors from those years. You can't show any of them.

 

Are you retracting your claim that the 135mm-long pen with narrower cap band and smaller nib was called the Slender Maxima by Parker in 1939, 1940, and 1941?

 

  Quote

 

What was Parker's model name for the pen on the left? Assume it has the cap band with two vertical lines ("||").

 

You say it's 1940 and I say that 1940 is not a question for me.

 

You are being dishonest again.

 

Here's the proof:

 

In this post of yours, this post of yours, and this post of yours, you showed several pictures of pens from 1940 and claimed they were Slender Maximas: "Some nice examples of Maximas (Slender if we want last name)."

 

I'm surprised you haven't realized that your repeated evasions of this question expose your fear of the correct answer. Have you considered the increasing damage you are doing to your reputation by avoiding this question?

 

Why are you so afraid of simply answering this question? If you do not know the answer, and you are unsure whether it is a Major or Slender Maxima, just say so.

 

 

  Quote

 

(I will give my opinion on this matter when and where I consider appropriate and after increasing samples of "| |" chevron band -regardless of the name that collectors grant them, by the way -. At the moment I'm only openly interested in checking if "| |" vertical chevron bands vacs measured 135 mm. -aprox. as Maxima and not as Major- or not.)

.

 

In case you are unsure what the word "evasion" means, you have just provided an outstanding example.

 

Do you not know the answer? Are you unsure whether Parker called the pen a Major or a Slender Maxima? You've already claimed that this model is a Slender Maxima in this post of yours, this post of yours, and this post of yours.

 

Are you now retracting those identifications?

 

  Quote

 

That's a Major. tNotice the larrower cap band.

 

" In 1942 came the last of the Vacumatic filling systems... The cap band of the Maxima was narrowed to the same width as that of the Major (app 4 mm)."

 

taken from http://parkerpens.net/vacumatic.html

 

Yourself

 

You are being very deceitful.

 

The pen to which my statement referred is not from 1942.

 

It's from 1941.

 

Here's the picture, to refresh your memory:

 

http://s28.postimg.org/tj72l76y5/1941_VERTICAL_BD_SLENDER_MAX.jpg

 

Also, here is the catalog listing that you provided for 1941, showing the wider cap band for both Maxima and Slender Maxima:

 

http://home.comcast.net/~kirchh/Misc/Long_Major/1941_Lazard_Detail.jpg

 

Also, the statement at parkerpens.net that you quote does not mention the Slender Maxima.

 

I suppose it's possible you could be more wrong, but I'm not sure how.

 

Here's a simple question for you:

 

What was the length of the pen called the Major by Parker in 1939, 1940, and 1941?

 

I suspect you will evade the question because you are afraid of the truthful answer, but maybe you will surprise me.

 

--Daniel

Edited February 14, 2014 by kirchh

[ralfstc]

I'm trying to keep up here, really I am. Is it the case that in the early 1940's Parker made two vacs that were very similar in overall size, but varied by trim?

 

One had thin trim ring, shorter nib, regular feed and the other had broader trim ring, longer nib and W feed?

 

And the point of this discussion is to come to some sort of shared understanding on how these are related to each other and other vacs of the same era?

 

Sorry to ask such basic questions!

 

Cheers,

 

Ralf

[kirchh]

  On 2/14/2014 at 1:36 AM, ralfstc said:

I'm trying to keep up here, really I am. Is it the case that in the early 1940's Parker made two vacs that were very similar in overall size, but varied by trim?

 

One had thin trim ring, shorter nib, regular feed and the other had broader trim ring, longer nib and W feed?

 

And the point of this discussion is to come to some sort of shared understanding on how these are related to each other and other vacs of the same era?

 

Sorry to ask such basic questions!

 

Cheers,

 

Ralf

 

You've basically got it. The Major was a less-expensive ($8.75) pen that had been a little shorter (at about 127mm) than the more-expensive ($10.00) Slender Maxima (~135mm), though the pens were the same girth. The Major had a smaller nib and narrower cap band; the Slender Maxima had a larger nib and wider cap band. But because at a certain point in the late-1930s, the Major was lengthened to the same length as the Slender Maxima, some collectors mistakenly identify that longer version of the Major as being the Slender Maxima, but it's not; the two models are easily distinguished by examining the width of the cap band. That's the error that Lazard has been making for a few months over the course of this thread; it's a common misconception among those not specifically knowledgeable about the Vacumatic models' development during that time period. Eventually, in the early '40s, the Major was shortened again.

 

Collectors refer collectively to those Majors that were longer as "Long Majors" to distinguish them from the earlier and later shorter versions. This is a well-understood collectors' term in the hobby. Parker continued to simply call them "Majors."

 

--Daniel

Edited February 14, 2014 by kirchh

[ralfstc]

Thanks Daniel, that seems very clear.

 

Ralf

[kirchh]

  On 2/13/2014 at 7:12 AM, Lazard 20 said:

 

  On 2/13/2014 at 12:23 AM, kirchh said:

 

Where are the pictures of all your 127mm-long Majors from 1939, 1940, and 1941?

 

1939 and 1940 are not concerned as I have been repeatedly saying. 1941 and following Majors I will send a few when I have a moment to photograph them.

 

 

Where are your pictures of your 127mm-long 1941 Majors?

 

--Daniel

[penmanila]

I suspect that most of us Vac collectors had this whole Slender Max business pretty much sorted out until this headache-inducing thread came up the key findings for me remain the wide cap band, the big nib, and the fact that it's a bit thinner than the Senior Maxima, whose length it shares. What could be clearer than that?

[kirchh]

  On 2/14/2014 at 4:31 AM, penmanila said:

I suspect that most of us Vac collectors had this whole Slender Max business pretty much sorted out until this headache-inducing thread came up the key findings for me remain the wide cap band, the big nib, and the fact that it's a bit thinner than the Senior Maxima, whose length it shares. What could be clearer than that?

 

Nothing has been introduced in this thread that alters the model identifications that are well-known among knowledgeable collectors. But there are still some who are newer to this area who mistake the longer Major of late-'38 though early-'43 for a Slender Maxima, as this thread demonstrates. A complete and intentional failure to face the clear evidence has prolonged matters considerably.

 

--Daniel

[Lazard 20]

  On 2/14/2014 at 12:12 AM, kirchh said:

Parker Vacumatics made were made in 1940 that are slender and 135mm long, and that have a narrower cap band and smaller nib, were called "Slender Maxima" by Parker and sold for $10.00.

 

The thread is very long. Could you remind for FPN readers and for me when I wrote this?

 

The Major had a smaller nib and narrower cap band;

 

" In 1942 came the last of the Vacumatic filling systems... The cap band of the Maxima was narrowed to the same width as that of the Major (app 4 mm)."

 

Are you retracting your claim now?

 

You have claimed that Parker called the long slender pen with the narrower cap band and smaller nib the "Slender Maxima" in 1939, 1940, and 1941, and that it was sold for $10.00.

 

Absolutely false. I affirm that Parker never called this 135 mm long, as Long Major, on contrary thye called them Maxima often and yourself recognize that LM is an invention of collectors so I, as collector, I prefer call them Slender Maxima that is a name that Parker had used years ago. ("My" name, followed by date is prettier, "more Parker´s name" and avoids talking about other absurds -in my opinion-- terms like "true fountain pen", "false fountain pen" or "Fat Long Major" ),

 

I, and other collectors, have claimed that Parker called the long slender pen with the narrower cap band and smaller nib the "Major" (collector name, "Long Major"), and that it was sold for $8.75.

 

Well, a bad choice, one simple bad choice with "Long Major". You have many other successes and nothing happens by a mistake. Every good writer can makes a blur.

 

Are you now retracting your claim that Parker called this pen the "Slender Maxima" and sold it for $10.00?

 

Are you now retracting your claim that the name of this model was Long Major? No, right? Indeed Parker no used Long Major name and neither I will. Well, let us go ... but we know that in 1942, dark years, had two prices, $ 8.75 and $ 10 and you have not been able to prove that the 135 mm./ 13.5 mm diameter during dark years was called Major implying that some FPN readers may think that Parker could sell this model as Major as Maxima, Maxima especially considering that width of band is not a differentiator in the dark ages. Perhaps the distinguishing feature is the double vertical?

 

I understand that for you, there is no question that the 135mm-long pen with narrower band made in 1940 was called "Slender Maxima" by Parker. You've demonstrated that in this post of yours, this post of yours, and this post of yours, where you showed several pictures of such pens from 1940 and claimed they were Slender Maximas: "Some nice examples of Maximas (Slender if we want last name)."

 

However, I disagree.

Nothing happens for this. I also disagree with you about the bands of the "Dark Ages" but we are agree that Long Major name in an invention. It is an acceptable level of agreement for a forum of Parker´s fountain pen.

 

I questioned your claim. I say Parker called that model the Major, and sold it for $8,75. Therefore, that year, 1940, is in question.

 

 

Maybe. I do not mind 1940 in this post.

 

You have provided no evidence for your claim that Parker called that model the Slender Maxima. However, you have provided evidence that they did not; you showed a 1940 catalog depiction of the Slender Maxima that shows it with a wider cap band:

 

What model? Does the 1940 or the "Dark Years"?

 

Whether or not you like or dislike the collector term "Long Major" is irrelevant.

 

Irrelevant? Oh! no, you are very wrong at this point!(*) This was precisely the bull´s eye of my participation here, look at my first entries if you want and see how I was looking for this. It has become clear that Long Major, the name I do not like and I do not use -and I think could no like to Parker too-, is a simple invention. My friends thought it was a Parker name because they reading this name in Pendom and let them know it was a simple invention I had troubles. This thread has served to clarify. It has achieved the goal for my friends for some FPN readers who do not know thar Parker never used "Long Major" and for me.

 

 

(*) It also leaves a funny question that I wanted to move to Pendom. If your name was not Long Major, because Long Major is collectors convention an invention. How Parker called this model? Without name model? False Slender Maxima? No, right? This beautiful fountain pen during "51" time had name... a beautiful name.

 

Edited February 14, 2014 by Lazard 20

[Lazard 20]

 

  On 2/14/2014 at 1:36 AM, ralfstc said:

One had thin trim ring, shorter nib, regular feed and the other had broader trim ring, longer nib and W feed?

 

 

That is precisely the problem because there were years when it was not so.

 

" In 1942 came the last of the Vacumatic filling systems... The cap band of the Maxima was narrowed to the same width as that of the Major (app 4 mm)."

 

taken from http://parkerpens.net/vacumatic.html

 

Regards.

[ANM]

From parkerpens.net: "In 1942 the bottom jewel disappeared and the plastic plunger was added, also the wide cap band on the Maxima was narrowed to approximately 4 mm. The Slender Maxima was discontinued."

 

 

There were no Slender Maximas made in 1942 or later.

Edited February 14, 2014 by ANM

[kirchh]

  On 2/14/2014 at 4:57 PM, Lazard 20 said:

 

  On 2/14/2014 at 12:12 AM, kirchh said:

Here's your claim:

 

Parker Vacumatics made were made in 1940 that are slender and 135mm long, and that have a narrower cap band and smaller nib, were called "Slender Maxima" by Parker and sold for $10.00.

 

The thread is very long. Could you remind for FPN readers and for me when I wrote this?

 

That shouldn't be necessary; no FPN readers have asked this of me. But it's becoming increasingly apparent that you are having great difficulty recalling what you wrote earlier, so I will help you.

 

Surely you remember this post of yours, this post of yours, and this post of yours, where you showed several pictures of pens from 1940 and claimed they were Slender Maximas? You called them, "Some nice examples of Maximas (Slender if we want last name)."

 

I'm so glad I could refresh your memory about that.

 

  Quote

The Major had a smaller nib and narrower cap band;

 

" In 1942 came the last of the Vacumatic filling systems... The cap band of the Maxima was narrowed to the same width as that of the Major (app 4 mm)."

 

I'm not sure if you're being intentionally deceitful and evasive, or if you are simply unwilling or unable to read with care what is written, but it seems I will yet again have to clarify this for you, as you have failed on multiple occasions to comprehend it.

 

During the time that the Slender Maxima and the Major were both being offered as separate models, the Major had a smaller nib and a narrower cap band than the Slender Maxima.

 

However, you have claimed that two different versions of the Slender Maxima were offered at the same time with the same name (Slender Maxima); one version with the wider band, and one version with the narrower band. In fact, in this post of yours, this post of yours, and this post of yours, you showed several pictures of pens from 1939, 1940, and 1941, and claimed they were Slender Maximas. You called them, "Some nice examples of Maximas (Slender if we want last name)."

 

The quotation you offer (which, of course, is not evidence) does not refer to the Slender Maxima. Therefore, it is irrelevant. Indeed, you have not even provided any evidence that the Slender Maxima was being offered by Parker in 1942.

 

Do you have any documentation that Parker had a Slender Maxima model in its line for 1942? Please note that we are specifically discussing the Slender Maxima, not the fatter Maxima model.

 

Why are you avoiding answering the very simple questions put to you about the size of the Major model in 1939, 1940, and 1941? How long was the Major in those years?

 

Where are the pictures of the 127mm-long 1941 Majors you promised to post?

 

Why are you avoiding identifying the pen on the left in this photo?

 

http://home.comcast.net/~kirchh/Misc/Long_Major/Long_Major_and_Slender_Maxima.jpg

 

  Quote

You have claimed that Parker called the long slender pen with the narrower cap band and smaller nib the "Slender Maxima" in 1939, 1940, and 1941, and that it was sold for $10.00.

 

Absolutely false. I affirm that Parker never called this 135 mm long, as Long Major, on contrary thye called them Maxima often and yourself recognize that LM is an invention of collectors so I, as collector, I prefer call them Slender Maxima that is a name that Parker had used years ago. ("My" name, followed by date is prettier, "more Parker´s name" and avoids talking about other absurds -in my opinion-- terms like "true fountain pen", "false fountain pen" or "Fat Long Major" ),

 

 

How sad -- you are again being dishonest. You say it is false that you said the long slender pen with the narrower cap band and smaller nib was called the "Slender Maxima" in 1939, 1940, and 1941, but unfortunately for you, the proof that you did say that is still in this thread: In this post of yours, this post of yours, and this post of yours, you showed several pictures of such pens from 1939, 1940, and 1941, and claimed they were Slender Maximas. You called them, "Some nice examples of Maximas (Slender if we want last name)." Do you now deny writing those posts?

 

Those pens are actually Majors.

 

Do you now admit that Parker called those pens Majors? If you do not agree that Parker called those pens Majors, what name do you claim Parker gave them?

 

Such simple questions. Do you have the integrity to answer them? We will find out.

 

  Quote

 

I, and other collectors, have claimed that Parker called the long slender pen with the narrower cap band and smaller nib the "Major" (collector name, "Long Major"), and that it was sold for $8.75.

 

Well, a bad choice, one simple bad choice with "Long Major". You have many other successes and nothing happens by a mistake. Every good writer can makes a blur.

 

What did Parker call those pens?

 

Do you have the integrity to answer this simple question?

 

  Quote

 

Are you now retracting your claim that Parker called this pen the "Slender Maxima" and sold it for $10.00?

 

Are you now retracting your claim that the name of this model was Long Major?

 

What a sad evasion. I was hoping that you would stand behind your own words, but apparently you will not.

 

Worse, your statement is extremely dishonest. I never claimed that Parker called that model the "Long Major."

 

You owe me a retraction and an apology. I am deeply disappointed that you would fabricate a position of mine in order to attack it. You have not shown that you have the integrity to issue the necessary retraction and apology, but perhaps you will surprise us.

 

  Quote

 

No, right? Indeed Parker no used Long Major name and neither I will.

 

No one claimed Parker used "Long Major," and no one asked you to use it. Indeed, I'd be extremely surprised if anyone cared if you used it.

 

But you claim Parker called the 135mm-long slender pens with narrower cap bands made in 1939, 1940, and 1941 "Slender Maximas."

 

Are you now retracting your claim that Parker called this pen the "Slender Maxima"? Do you now admit that Parker called this model the "Major"?

 

Simple questions. Will you answer them, or will you continue to evade them?

 

You do know why people evade questions, don't you? It's because they are afraid of the consequences of giving truthful answers.

 

  Quote

 

Well, let us go ... but we know that in 1942, dark years, had two prices, $ 8.75 and $ 10 and you have not been able to prove that the 135 mm./ 13.5 mm diameter during dark years was called Major implying that some FPN readers may think that Parker could sell this model as Major as Maxima, Maxima especially considering that width of band is not a differentiator in the dark ages.

 

You are very confused. The burden of proof is on you, because it is you who have made the claims.

 

You have no evidence that Parker offered a Slender Maxima model in its line in 1942.

 

You claim that the Major was never 135mm long, but that it was always about 127mm long. Where are all your pictures of 127mm long Majors from 1939, 1940, 1941, and 1942?

 

Where are the pictures?

 

You claim that for several years, The Slender Maxima had two versions, both being sold at the same time as Slender Maximas by Parker. One version had a narrower band and smaller nib, and the other version had a wider band and larger nib. Where is your evidence?

 

Why do you refuse to identify the Parker model name of the pen on the left in the picture above?

 

  Quote

 

Perhaps the distinguishing feature is the double vertical?

 

You haven't established that Parker had a Slender Maxima in its line in 1942. Where is your documentation?

 

  Quote

I understand that for you, there is no question that the 135mm-long pen with narrower band made in 1940 was called "Slender Maxima" by Parker. You've demonstrated that in this post of yours, this post of yours, and this post of yours, where you showed several pictures of such pens from 1940 and claimed they were Slender Maximas: "Some nice examples of Maximas (Slender if we want last name)."

 

However, I disagree.

Nothing happens for this. I also disagree with you about the bands of the "Dark Ages" but we are agree that Long Major name in an invention. It is an acceptable level of agreement for a forum of Parker´s fountain pen.

 

I hope you are not running away from your claims.

 

As you have expressed some doubt about your own memory of what you wrote earlier in this thread, I will refresh your memory:

 

In this post of yours, this post of yours, and this post of yours, you showed several pictures of slender, 135mm-long pens with narrow cap bands from 1939, 1940, and 1941, and claimed they were Slender Maximas. You called them, "Some nice examples of Maximas (Slender if we want last name)."

 

I claim they are Majors.

 

That is not an "acceptable level of agreement for a forum of Parker's fountain pen."

 

You claim the Major was never 135mm long, and that it was always about 127mm long.

 

I say the Major got longer in late 1938 though early 1943.

 

That is not an "acceptable level of agreement for a forum of Parker's fountain pen."

 

You claim that slender 135mm-long pens with double vertical lines adjacent to the indicia are all Slender Maximas.

 

I say such pens with narrower cap bands are Majors.

 

That is not an "acceptable level of agreement for a forum of Parker's fountain pen."

I say the pen on the left in the picture I posted was called the "Major" by Parker.

You refuse to agree.

That is not an "acceptable level of agreement for a forum of Parker's fountain pen."

 

  Quote

 

I questioned your claim. I say Parker called that model the Major, and sold it for $8,75. Therefore, that year, 1940, is in question.

 

Maybe. I do not mind 1940 in this post.

 

No, not "maybe" -- definitely. You claimed that pen was called the Slender Maxima; I say it was called the Major. Therefore, 1940 is definitely in question.

 

Where's your evidence for that pen being called "Slender Maxima" in 1940?

 

  Quote

You have provided no evidence for your claim that Parker called that model the Slender Maxima. However, you have provided evidence that they did not; you showed a 1940 catalog depiction of the Slender Maxima that shows it with a wider cap band:

 

What model? Does the 1940 or the "Dark Years"?

 

You might need to increase the size of the font on your monitor, but to speed things up, I'll do it for you this time.

 

Here's the statement of mine you were answering, with the important part made a little bigger so you don't miss it again:

 

You have provided no evidence for your claim that Parker called that model the Slender Maxima. However, you have provided evidence that they did not; you showed a 1940 catalog depiction of the Slender Maxima that shows it with a wider cap band.

 

Now, your question should be answered, and you will know that you provided evidence that Parker did not call the 1940 model with the narrower band "Slender Maxima," because you showed a 1940 catalog depiction of the Slender Maxima that shows it with a wider cap band.

 

  Quote

Whether or not you like or dislike the collector term "Long Major" is irrelevant.

 

Irrelevant? Oh! no, you are very wrong at this point!(*) This was precisely the bull´s eye of my participation here, look at my first entries if you want and see how I was looking for this. It has become clear that Long Major, the name I do not like and I do not use -and I think could no like to Parker too-, is a simple invention. My friends thought it was a Parker name because they reading this name in Pendom and let them know it was a simple invention I had troubles. This thread has served to clarify. It has achieved the goal for my friends for some FPN readers who do not know thar Parker never used "Long Major" and for me.

 

Incorrect. You have repeatedly claimed that the model that collectors have termed the "Long Major" was actually called the Slender Maxima by Parker. Whether you like or dislike the name that collectors have given that model has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that you continue to be wrong about the name Parker gave to that model. Parker called that model the Major; you repeatedly claimed that Parker called that model the Slender Maxima. But for months, you have been completely unable to supply any evidence at all for your claim, and you have repeatedly evaded questions that would resolve the question.

 

As for your false claim that "It has become clear that Long Major, the name I do not like and I do not use -and I think could no like to Parker too-, is a simple invention", this is apparently another example of the memory problems you mentioned earlier when you could not remember what you posted earlier in the thread. The truth is that this fact was told to you in this post on December 22 of last year. Therefore, your claim that the last two months of subsequent posts by you were because you were "looking for this," is false, and blatantly so.

 

 

  Quote

 

(*) It also leaves a funny question that I wanted to move to Pendom. If your name was not Long Major, because Long Major is collectors convention an invention. How Parker called this model? Without name model? False Slender Maxima? No, right? This beautiful fountain pen during "51" time had name... a beautiful name.

 

Below is a picture of two 135mm-long slender Vacumatics.

 

What is the name Parker gave to the model on the left with the narrower band? Do you have the courage to give the answer?

 

http://home.comcast.net/~kirchh/Misc/Long_Major/Long_Major_and_Slender_Maxima.jpg

 

--Daniel

Edited February 14, 2014 by kirchh

[Lazard 20]

  On 2/14/2014 at 7:10 PM, ANM said:

From parkerpens.net: "In 1942 the bottom jewel disappeared and the plastic plunger was added, also the wide cap band on the Maxima was narrowed to approximately 4 mm. The Slender Maxima was discontinued."

 

 

That is precisely the problem because, What is the name given for Parker in 1945 for the fountain pen of 1945 object of this post with 135 mm? Long Major?

 

On the other hand, What is the name given for Parker for this fountain pen of 1941, of 135 mm for example? Long Major?

http://s16.postimg.org/u1774t8qd/1941_4_T_m_xima_134mm_2_verticales.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

One of "dark years" of 127 mm, 58 mm. cap. narrow band with one vertical

 

Pen 3000-S Parker Vacumatic 3rd Gen Emerald Pearl 1945

http://vacumania.com/websitesalespics/pen3000sd.jpg

 

Overall Grade: Fine-Xf Metal: Exc Color: Exc CLICK FOR LARGER PIC Nib condition: Exc Threads: Perfect clarity: Modest Amber Point: M- TWO TONE** Imprint: Exc Size: 5 1/8" 12.8 cm PRICE: COMMENTS: Third Generation Vacumatic Major and Junior are popular entry-to-series pens, providing good size at reasonable cost. This one packs a nice medium nib, full two tone effect date code for 1946. Two tone nibs are not "expected" this late, but two tone 1946 nibs are known.

 

Other case:

 

Parker never used "Long Major", so which were the names of these 135 mm and two vertical narrow chevron band and her contemporaries of 127 mm and one vertical an narrow band too?

 

These four pens are post-1941. 2 with the 127 mm. 58 mm cap, 13,5 mm diameter narrow band and only one vertical chevron band, and 2 with 135 mm 61 mm cap 13,5 diameter narrow band and two verticals chevron band. Did they have the same name for Parker´s?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 14, 2014 by Lazard 20

[kirchh]

  On 2/14/2014 at 5:43 PM, Lazard 20 said:

 

 

 

That is precisely the problem because there were years when it was not so.

 

" In 1942 came the last of the Vacumatic filling systems... The cap band of the Maxima was narrowed to the same width as that of the Major (app 4 mm)."

 

taken from http://parkerpens.net/vacumatic.html

 

Regards.

 

 

Ah, selective quoting. One of the last bastions of the person who has discovered he is completely wrong. Really, Lazard, you should be ashamed.

 

Here's the passage that contains the little piece you quoted; I've emphasized some other parts for you. If you don't understand exactly what they mean, please ask;

 

In 1942, [,,,,] The cap band of the Maxima was narrowed to the same width as that of the Major (app 4 mm). Before 1942 the Slender Maxima and the Major was virtually of the same size, the difference being the wide cap band, and most important, the nib size on the Slender Maxima. The feed usually has the "W" for wide feed imprint. In 1942 the bottom jewel disappeared and the plastic plunger was added, also the wide cap band on the Maxima was narrowed to approximately 4 mm. The Slender Maxima was discontinued.

 

Lazard, did you miss those parts?

 

--Daniel

Edited February 14, 2014 by kirchh

[kirchh]

  On 2/14/2014 at 8:16 PM, Lazard 20 said:

 

That is precisely the problem because, what was the name given for Parker to photographed here manufactured in 1942 with 135 mm diameter and 13.5 vertical double cap band? Long Major?

 

Apparently, you haven't been reading some of the posts in this thread.

 

Parker called that pen the Major. As has been repeatedly told to you in this thread, "Long Major" is a collectors' name, not a Parker name. You were told that two months ago. Did you forget?

 

--Daniel