Cards On The Table: Nibmeisters Are Far From Infallible.

[ziptrickhead]

I have a few pens that I need to get worked on so I started researching who I would be sending my pens into. I don't necessarily think it's fair to blame either the person working on the pen OR the customer. Something like feel is very subjective and in my mind requires a certain touch. My feelings is that instead of going to a "nibmeister" and trying to get that person to conform the nib to how you want it to feel, it should be the other way around. You should go to that nibmeister to have work done to conform to how their feel is. Granted someone who is really good at working on nibs can smooth a nib out to be buttery smooth but once you get into personal tastes such as how much feedback you want or the "character" of a nib, that get's a lot trickier. Can't expect to get it right the first time without some back and forth and unfortunately if you're mailing the pen in, it isn't as convenient as sitting right next to the person working on the pen.

 

With that same mindset, I feel that just because someone learned nib work from another person, that doesn't mean they'll have the same touch. Not to knock anyone at all, but quite often I see Richard Binder's name brought up and I know there are several people who have learned nib work from him and will "Binderize" your pen for you. My feeling is if I want my pen to write as a Binderized pen, I'd have to get work done by Richard Binder himself because while his students' process may be the same, they don't have his hands, touch, or experience. I think that before anyone can really call themselves a master at something, they need to build a reputation first. For me, I only have a handful of nibmeisters I would want to send my pens out to (Zorn, Mottishaw, and Masuyama and Binder if I can catch him at a show). Doesn't mean other people don't do quality work, but it's my option to go to just these individuals because they have a reputation that I can appreciate. For reference, I decided that three of my pens will go to Masuyama because from what I've seen he has an amazing reputation to grind very fine nibs and have them be smooth which happens to coincidence with what I want from my nibs. Now I'm just waiting for Mike to complete his move and start taking new requests.

[Sinistral1]

As new as I am to this hobby, I have decided that I need to learn how to "tweek" my nibs myself. If I can't do it, then the second decision I have made is to take the pen to a show so I can sit with the meister while he/she is fixing it so that I can test it to make sure it's what I really want. I'll be happy and the money I spend will be going toward the precise service I needed, making both myself and the meister happy campers. I have pens that work just fine, and will use them while I practice my patience skills waiting for a show to take the others to.

[SteveE]

Another point to keep in mind is that unless I am missing something, I do not see nibmeisters flying to shows in their own private jets. By this I mean that working on nibs is probably just as much a work of love as it is an economic effort, and these folks put a lot of "themselves" into every pen they work on. I respect this - a lot. If I have a pen worked on and it doesn't turn out as I had dreamed, I do not blame anyone. I simply contact the craftsman, discuss my concerns and we decide how to work it through. I have been lucky that this is all I have ever needed to do. I have never had a pen damaged beyond reasonable repair, nor have I ever had one of the several nib persons push back at me. I find them all to be most upstanding citizens of the pen community and appreciate all that they can do that I cannot do for myself.

 

To any of our nibmeisters who may be reading this. . . Thank You!

[ethernautrix]

YEAH!

[lurcho]

Please note that I didn't criticize anyone individually. If I had, then I would deserve censure.

 

But for those who question the point of my post, I will say this: I have had pens back from well-known people that were bloody awful.

 

It wasn't simply an issue of communication, but one of an expectation of basic standards that weren't met.

 

This wasn't a rant. I think it's perfectly reasonable to discuss this. Unlike some, I have had poor results. I.e., badly-writing pens returned from an expert's workshop.

 

That's all. Just saying.

 

I retire from the thread.

Edited October 25, 2013 by lurcho

[readonly]

Cards on the table? That means you put the cards on the table, face up. But I guess this is not the intention of this thread.

 

It wasn't simply an issue of communication, but one of an expectation of basic standards that weren't met.

 

The thing is, a critical part of communication issues that at least one party does not realize that there is a communication issue.

[Tiffanyhenschel]

I have to agree with the OP on this issue. I have had nibwork done by four different people -- exactly the same requests made of all four. Two of the "masters" are truly that. The nibs are heavenly. The other two -- I could barely stand to write with the pens when they came back.

 

There is a reason for those who have higher fees and long waiting lists. Those masters have earned it. You get what you pay for in both time and money.

[ethernautrix]

Ya know... sometimes the nibmeister does a careless job. Doesn't mean anyone is saying that nibmeisters are infallible. But most fpners are reluctant to share their disappointment.

 

Sometimes the pen-owner doesn't communicate clearly; sometimes the nibmeister does a lousy job.

 

Life goes on....

[Blade Runner]

Some people are excellent at what they do, and some people aren't. Same with nib workers.

 

We are too politically correct to name sub par ones, putting it down to poor communication, an isolated bad performance and other excuses, but it helps the community to name those from whom we've had consistently great experiences. I've had nib work done by 3 different people, and Richard Binder is the one I'll name as the one who gave me the best results. Unfortunately, he isn't as active anymore.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Blade Runner

[I like mango cheesecake]

That's why I learn to do this myself. I write with a specific profile that is quite different than the average user.

 

I practise on cheap pens first. If I screw up, it's only a $6 Jinhao. I'm pretty good at modding my nibs to cursive italics. Both mine are silky smooth when I hit the sweet spot of those nibs. still working on stubs. Next up is creating more flex off a modern flex nib.

 

I too decided to make my own MB piston and nib removal tool as well. I want to clean my MB's thoroughly and grease the piston after changing inks. Couldn't wait for ebay to have it for sale.

[UDog]

Let me sum it all up: Nibmeister Schnibmeister.

 

 

 

(Edited for content.)

Edited October 27, 2013 by UDog

[TimGirdler]

There have been some fair things said here.....and also some unfair things. But, if you'll allow me...

 

I am one that has been trained by Richard Binder. Linda Kennedy is also another one that has been trained by Richard. One thing that is clear in the world of nib working is this: There is a preference for or against anyone. This is to say that one nib worker's work will appeal more, or less, to a particular individual.

 

I have been asked to tweak the work of other well-known nib workers. I'm sure, if it hasn't happened already, that another nib worker will be asked to tweak my work. And, really, that's just life.

 

Richard began to train Linda and myself at roughly the same time, and he has been ridiculously gracious to me (and Linda too) to share with us his knowledge and experience. From the beginning of the training, Richard made it clear to us that he was not interested in minting "competitors." Rather, he was interested in minting "colleagues." He also made it clear that he was not interested in cookie-cutter trainees. He wanted Linda and I to be who we are, not "Little Richards."

 

Though Linda and I have been trained in Richard's workshop with him looking over our shoulders and guiding us every step, it isn't possible that our nibs will be identical because we are three different people with three different tastes and preferences. It is altogether possible, and highly likely, that someone will prefer my nibs over Linda's. And, it's altogether possible, and highly likely, that someone will prefer Linda's nibs over mine. We know this; we accept this; it's part of life working on pens.

 

By the same token, it is likely and possible that certain individuals will prefer Richard's work over Mottishaw's and that others will prefer Mottishaw's over Richards. I could go on comparing Michael Masuyama and Pendleton Brown, but you get the point.

 

As one who has been trained, I can say that Linda does fantastic work. If I didn't know how to do the nib thing myself, I'd be happy to have her tune, tweak, or grind any of my pens--she's that good. I've seen Mike's work (he's obviously exceptional at what he does) and I own a Pendleton Brown "Butter-line Stub." I've written with Richard's nibs and they're great. The only one of the "big four" (Binder, Brown, Masuyama, and Mottishaw) is Mottishaw--I have no pens that he's worked on. But, one thing is clear: All nib workers do work that differs from one another.

 

Also, it has to be said, that in tuning nibs, nib workers do not (and, frankly, cannot) make a nib "perfect." Nib workers who tune nibs optimize nibs--to make that specific nib write the best that it can. In the relatively short time that I've been doing this, I can say that no two nibs are exactly the same. Some nibs are flawed materially (I recently tuned one pen that has a "lunar landscape" on it's tipping material--and it's a flaw in the nib itself and there is nothing that I or anyone else can do, short of re-tipping the nib). Some nibs respond well to tuning; some have to be beaten into submission. And, the maker of the nib matters. Certain nibs will likely never be as good as other higher-end nibs--even with the same nib worker tuning them to the highest potential possible.

 

Finally, a good nib worker realizes that he or she is not, by any means, "infallible." We know that tweaking work further to meet and exceed the customer's expectations comes with our hanging out a shingle.

 

Also, we realize that some clients will never be satisfied with our work and will seek refunds, etc. To tell a story on myself, in tuning a set of nibs for a client, I wasn’t happy with the work. The nibs wrote well, but not well enough for me and, in the end, I’d taken off to much tipping material to be happy with the nibs if I were in the customer’s shoes. So, I’m replacing both nibs (which isn’t cheap, but is the right thing to do in this case).

 

So, no….not infallible, but we (Richard, Linda, or myself) have never considered ourselves to be so. (And, I mention these two others and myself because we three have talked about and have discussed these things).

 

And, a closing thought….Some people expect a particular pen with a tuned or customized nib to solve all their writing problems. Pens are only things, tools really. And, it is possible that some people don’t realize that pen-operator problems cannot be compensated for by even the best nib worker.

 

Blessings,

 

Tim

 

 

 

EDITS: Spelling and Grammar

Edited October 26, 2013 by TimGirdler

[JonSzanto]

Spectacular post, Tim. Everything that could have been and should have been said, all right there. Impressive and heartening.

[penrivers]

I know a priori they are human beens so I ask for two things: nib style and smoothnes.

 

To ask for ten or twenty requisits is crazy.

Edited October 26, 2013 by penrivers

[adyf]

Richard began to train Linda and myself at roughly the same time

 

I know it's off topic Tim, but how did that fantastic opportunity come about? Once trained did you both work on pens in Richard's queue?

Edited October 26, 2013 by adyf

[Indy_Pen_Dance]

 

I know it's off topic Tim, but how did that fantastic opportunity come about? Once trained did you both work on pens in Richard's queue?

 

I can't speak for Tim as to how his venture started, but mine did not start with Richard. When I came to Richard, I had already started repairing pens. I was blessed with two fantastic opportunities along my path, the first came through our friendship with, the now departed, Terry Johnson. Like most who get started in repairs, Mike (my husband) and I had been buying up cheap "junkers" to hone our skills on and Terry Johnson jumped in and started handing us pens to repair. Living in Zionsville, we had known Terry for years. Terry was very encouraging to both of us with regards our desire to work on fountain pens and when he learned that I had the opportunity to study with Richard he shared the excitement with me. Terry didn't just hand us a bunch of Esterbrooks or other low end student pens, especially not once I had begun training with Richard - NO! Terry handed us some of his most prized pens, including: several very high end LeBoeuf sleeve fillers, AA Waterman twist fillers, hundreds (and this is not an exaggeration) of snorkels and vacumatics alike, plunger fillers and just about anything he could come up with. Every time Terry handed us a new batch of pens, his manner was the same "Don't worry about it, if something breaks it's ok".

 

You see guys, if you work on pens - YOU WILL BREAK pens. It is going to happen. The same can be said for working on Nibs, you WILL break or mess one up at some point - and it that won't be the last one. We are all Human and all make mistakes.

 

Several of these pens became lessons with Richard, as I communicated back and forth with him or carted the pens to Nashua or the next pen show on the circuit.

 

But I digress, let me back up a minute. When I met Richard, it was because we wanted our own pens to hold his special style of nibs. I couldn't make them at that point, I could just fix some of my pens (and not always with the comfort level I would like to have had). Through talking and expressing the interest in learning the craft and having a truly deep desire to do this - for a long time to come, I was then presented with my second blessing - the opportunity to have training with Richard Binder. I was in the right place at the right time.

 

The training portion of this journey, I'm sure is much the same. Both Tim and I have made multiple trips to both observe Richard at work during pen shows and to learn from him at his pen spa. We have spent countless hours watching his every move while he changes a nib from ordinary to extraordinary in a matter of minutes with his clients chatting happily in front of him in places like Atlanta, North Carolina, Washington DC, and Baltimore. We have made multiple trips to Nashua, New Hampshire to work with him in his work shop where we have done everything from "Binderizing" to fully customizing nibs under Richard's expert tutelage. Most of the early grinding, in my case, was done on old kit pen nibs that I had in the parts bin and brought along for instruction (and destruction if need be). Repairs were made on pens that I brought from home to specifically learn new skills on. At no time did I ever do work on any pens during my training with Richard that were pens from his queue.

 

So, when you ask how did this fantastic opportunity come about ... I can only say that it was truly a blessing that I was at a point where my life's journey led me to cross path's with an unbelievably talented and genuinely gifted individual who has the incredible ability of not only being someone who can and does but who can also teach.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Indy_Pen_Dance

[sumgaikid]

There have been some fair things said here.....and also some unfair things. But, if you'll allow me...

 

I am one that has been trained by Richard Binder. Linda Kennedy is also another one that has been trained by Richard. One thing that is clear in the world of nib working is this: There is a preference for or against anyone. This is to say that one nib worker's work will appeal more, or less, to a particular individual.

 

I have been asked to tweak the work of other well-known nib workers. I'm sure, if it hasn't happened already, that another nib worker will be asked to tweak my work. And, really, that's just life.

 

Richard began to train Linda and myself at roughly the same time, and he has been ridiculously gracious to me (and Linda too) to share with us his knowledge and experience. From the beginning of the training, Richard made it clear to us that he was not interested in minting "competitors." Rather, he was interested in minting "colleagues." He also made it clear that he was not interested in cookie-cutter trainees. He wanted Linda and I to be who we are, not "Little Richards."

 

Though Linda and I have been trained in Richard's workshop with him looking over our shoulders and guiding us every step, it isn't possible that our nibs will be identical because we are three different people with three different tastes and preferences. It is altogether possible, and highly likely, that someone will prefer my nibs over Linda's. And, it's altogether possible, and highly likely, that someone will prefer Linda's nibs over mine. We know this; we accept this; it's part of life working on pens.

 

By the same token, it is likely and possible that certain individuals will prefer Richard's work over Mottishaw's and that others will prefer Mottishaw's over Richards. I could go on comparing Michael Masuyama and Pendleton Brown, but you get the point.

 

As one who has been trained, I can say that Linda does fantastic work. If I didn't know how to do the nib thing myself, I'd be happy to have her tune, tweak, or grind any of my pens--she's that good. I've seen Mike's work (he's obviously exceptional at what he does) and I own a Pendleton Brown "Butter-line Stub." I've written with Richard's nibs and they're great. The only one of the "big four" (Binder, Brown, Masuyama, and Mottishaw) is Mottishaw--I have no pens that he's worked on. But, one thing is clear: All nib workers do work that differs from one another.

 

Also, it has to be said, that in tuning nibs, nib workers do not (and, frankly, cannot) make a nib "perfect." Nib workers who tune nibs optimize nibs--to make that specific nib write the best that it can. In the relatively short time that I've been doing this, I can say that no two nibs are exactly the same. Some nibs are flawed materially (I recently tuned one pen that has a "lunar landscape" on it's tipping material--and it's a flaw in the nib itself and there is nothing that I or anyone else can do, short of re-tipping the nib). Some nibs respond well to tuning; some have to be beaten into submission. And, the maker of the nib matters. Certain nibs will likely never be as good as other higher-end nibs--even with the same nib worker tuning them to the highest potential possible.

 

Finally, a good nib worker realizes that he or she is not, by any means, "infallible." We know that tweaking work further to meet and exceed the customer's expectations comes with our hanging out a shingle.

 

Also, we realize that some clients will never be satisfied with our work and will seek refunds, etc. To tell a story on myself, in tuning a set of nibs for a client, I wasn’t happy with the work. The nibs wrote well, but not well enough for me and, in the end, I’d taken off to much tipping material to be happy with the nibs if I were in the customer’s shoes. So, I’m replacing both nibs (which isn’t cheap, but is the right thing to do in this case).

 

So, no….not infallible, but we (Richard, Linda, or myself) have never considered ourselves to be so. (And, I mention these two others and myself because we three have talked about and have discussed these things).

 

And, a closing thought….Some people expect a particular pen with a tuned or customized nib to solve all their writing problems. Pens are only things, tools really. And, it is possible that some people don’t realize that pen-operator problems cannot be compensated for by even the best nib worker.

 

Blessings,

 

Tim

 

 

 

EDITS: Spelling and Grammar

 

 

It couldn't have been said better.

 

 

John

[ethernautrix]

I haven't read Tim's well-received post (I shall - Monday, on a bigger screen), but I will say that a nibmeister can be like designers in general: people have their preferences. I have tried various nibmeistered pens and found them to be... okay, while the owners of said pens praised them to high heavens. That I might find it slightly less than heavenly is not the fault of the nibmeister. Sometimes a nibmeister's exemplary grind is simply not to my taste. I've been able to discern that the grind was done well, though.

[adyf]

 

 

I can't speak for Tim as to how his venture started, but mine did not start with Richard. When I came to Richard, I had already started repairing pens. I was blessed with two fantastic opportunities along my path, the first came through our friendship with, the now departed, Terry Johnson. Like most who get started in repairs, Mike (my husband) and I had been buying up cheap "junkers" to hone our skills on and Terry Johnson jumped in and started handing us pens to repair. Living in Zionsville, we had known Terry for years. Terry was very encouraging to both of us with regards our desire to work on fountain pens and when he learned that I had the opportunity to study with Richard he shared the excitement with me. Terry didn't just hand us a bunch of Esterbrooks or other low end student pens, especially not once I had begun training with Richard - NO! Terry handed us some of his most prized pens, including: several very high end LeBoeuf sleeve fillers, AA Waterman twist fillers, hundreds (and this is not an exaggeration) of snorkels and vacumatics alike, plunger fillers and just about anything he could come up with. Every time Terry handed us a new batch of pens, his manner was the same "Don't worry about it, if something breaks it's ok".

 

You see guys, if you work on pens - YOU WILL BREAK pens. It is going to happen. The same can be said for working on Nibs, you WILL break or mess one up at some point - and it that won't be the last one. We are all Human and all make mistakes.

 

Several of these pens became lessons with Richard, as I communicated back and forth with him or carted the pens to Nashua or the next pen show on the circuit.

 

But I digress, let me back up a minute. When I met Richard, it was because we wanted our own pens to hold his special style of nibs. I couldn't make them at that point, I could just fix some of my pens (and not always with the comfort level I would like to have had). Through talking and expressing the interest in learning the craft and having a truly deep desire to do this - for a long time to come, I was then presented with my second blessing - the opportunity to have training with Richard Binder. I was in the right place at the right time.

 

The training portion of this journey, I'm sure is much the same. Both Tim and I have made multiple trips to both observe Richard at work during pen shows and to learn from him at his pen spa. We have spent countless hours watching his every move while he changes a nib from ordinary to extraordinary in a matter of minutes with his clients chatting happily in front of him in places like Atlanta, North Carolina, Washington DC, and Baltimore. We have made multiple trips to Nashua, New Hampshire to work with him in his work shop where we have done everything from "Binderizing" to fully customizing nibs under Richard's expert tutelage. Most of the early grinding, in my case, was done on old kit pen nibs that I had in the parts bin and brought along for instruction (and destruction if need be). Repairs were made on pens that I brought from home to specifically learn new skills on. At no time did I ever do work on any pens during my training with Richard that were pens from his queue.

 

So, when you ask how did this fantastic opportunity come about ... I can only say that it was truly a blessing that I was at a point where my life's journey led me to cross path's with an unbelievably talented and genuinely gifted individual who has the incredible ability of not only being someone who can and does but who can also teach.

 

Wow, thanks for the detailed reply Linda. I'm pleased to know that I'm in great company when it comes to breaking parts sometimes! Some restoration stuff I managed to learn from great places like this forum, but I think nib work is an entirely different ball game that's difficult to teach yourself.

[Blade Runner]

I recently had a few pens worked on by a nib technician. I tested them extensively. Different positions, papers, and inks. I know how a good nib should write. I had made detailed requests and included writing samples and my stationery. They're simply inferior grinds. It's not a preference thing.

I could have sent them back for readjustment without charge, but my trust is gone. I am sending them elsewhere. Hopefully I won't need re-tipping.