Crystals And Crud

[DrCodfish]

Earlier this summer I searched for an ink that would 'go' with a Pelikan Toledo which I purchased in the spring. I tend toward earth tones so I focused my attention on greens, browns, and reds. I got a lot of great suggestions here and members graciously sent me many samples. As a result my meager ink collection expanded by three. I purchased Sailor Jentle Epinard, Stipula Verde Muschiato, and Diamine Ancient Copper. After some use, I settled on Ancient Copper as the primary ink for this pen. It looked great on paper and performed well as I have come to expect from the Diamine inks I have, ...but. (there is always a but, isn't there?)

 

After a week or two I noticed something like crystals or sludge developing on the feed and nib. This was very disturbing so I emptied the ink out of the pen and thoroughly cleaned it. The pen is now filled with Diamine Syrah and working flawlessly.

 

I sent a note to one of the members here who has helped me in the past asking if he had had a similar experience. Fortunately he was able to talk me in off the ledge. He said he had not had this experience in his pens but that he had not used Ancient Copper in a Pelikan. He suggested I search the 'Inky Thoughts' forum for 'Diamine' and 'Crud' which I did. I learned that many have used this ink without incident while others have had a similar eperieince. It's great to have this forum to share and learn about these things, I don't feel like I am stuck on an alien planet.

 

Recently I scored another fabulous pen, a Pelikan M800 tortoise with an IB nib. It has been a long time since I have had so much fun with a new pen, this nib is a great writer even if I am not. Once again, I am looking for a 'primary' ink for this pen. I've gone through my meager stash of inks, they are all pleasant enough but I have not seen anything that said "Me, Me, pick ME!". With this broad nib I find that I am more inclined toward an ink that is not too dark but shades well. As I've worked my way through my inks that bottle of Ancient Copper has been sitting at the back of the box, staring silently back at me.

 

Yesterday I buckled and loaded the M800 with Ancient Copper. In two days time I've filled 8 pages in the journal. Partly it's my musings on the govenment shut down (I am a furloughed Fed employee so have time on my hands) but I know also the combination of this ink and this pen has egged me on. My desk calendar has seen a 25% increase of 'doodleage'. If not for that one disturbing characteristic I would say this ink is the perfect match for this pen. So far all is well but I suspect since the Toledo and the M800 are so similar (though the Toledo is 80's vintage I think) that in time I shall see the hideous growth appearing on the IB nib. I'm on the horns of a dillemma and ask your thoughts to help me resolve the situation.

 

If you have used Diamine Ancient Copper with no untoward developments, which pens have you used?

 

If you have had an experience similar to mine, which pens were you using? If you continued to use this ink despite the crud development, were there any long term negative effects, and are you employing any special care and treatment?

 

It must be obvious where I am going with this: I love this pen and I really like the ink but am concerned about long term effects if I continue to use this combination.

 

And finally, do you think I am crazy to be considering using this ink in this pen which has rapidly settled in as a top five pen in my budding collection?

 

your thoughtful comments would be greatly appreciated.

 

[DanF]

It will form crystals after a while, but they easily wipe off or dissolve in water, so no problem. I don't think it would get into the depths of a pen and do any damage. I've never had any trouble of that sort. Just a drop of water on the nib will take care of it.

 

Several other orange based inks behave similarly.

 

Dan

[mhosea]

I agree with Dan. Not sure what it depends on (I have only seen the crystals on the neck of the bottle, not in a pen), but the resemblance to biological growth is superficial. It's just ink. I recently conducted some ink dry-out experiments, and some inks really seemed to want to wick out onto the nib and dry up there while others seemed content to loiter in the pen's ink reservoir.

[Paddler]

I have had similar problems with some brown and orange colored inks (Levenger's Cocoa comes to mind). I think these colors have to be so saturated with dye that they form crystals and gunk in the pen's feed collector after evaporating even a small amount of water. I have never had a pen become blocked with the precipitate and it has always instantly rinsed away with ordinary cold tap water. In my case, the solution to the problem was to either use the ink more quickly or to dilute it with water.

[swanjun]

I've definitely had some other weird crud develop with orange inks. I'd just wiped it off and keep going.

[Centopar]

It's a characteristic of something in a lot of orange-toned inks. It seems to precipitate out especially if you're in a very dry climate (or somewhere with air conditioning). And it looks *awful*, but it's not damaging and is easy enough to rinse away with water.

[thedeacon]

I've had the same experience with some orange and brown inks. It's never caused any damage, just a minor inconvenience. It only happens to me when I leave the pen unused for a few days. (Maybe I need to ink fewer pens? Who knows?) Like others have said, I just wipe it or rinse it off and keep going.

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

From my experience, it is related to the allura red dye that is typically used. It is used in Pelikan Brilliant Red and Diamine Orange for instance. It is a red/orange color, and it collects like this:

 

 

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2893/10158669164_2b04c648f0_b.jpg

 

 

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7369/10159027286_226c889042_b.jpg

It dissolves in water generally, but sometimes, it makes off with the plating on gold plated steel nibs where the crystals sit. It also sometimes causes some rainbowing on the parts it touches in the 14K gold nibs. It also stains converters at least temporarily. It is possible to remove the staining with a very weak solution of citrus detergent (I usually use 1 part to 50 parts water). Don't use the citrus detergent in polycarbonate pens since they are sensitive to many detergents, and I've done tests that seem to show that acrylics, hard rubber, and many other materials are unaffected by the detergent at levels that would cause polycarbonate to craze. As for the pen in the picture, it's been cleaned, and there isn't any more Diamine Orange in it.

Dillon

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

Apparently it is a cosmetic / aesthetic problem only - your pens are not fodder for DAC.

 

Bye,

S1

__ __

See also https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/213095-oh-no-diamine-ancient-copper-problem/?p=2227326

[DrCodfish]

Thanks for the responses. I feel better (though still a bit skittish) about using this ink in my expensive (for me) pen. for now I will continue to use it. I will keep an eye on the nib and I'll monitor he pens perfirmance. if the pen develops the crud I'll clean the nib and feed. if performance is compromized I may elect to discontiue use of this lovely ink.

[pen2paper]

Crystals formed at the top of my bottle of Private Reserve Buttercup Yellow.

 

As this bottle was not new, and there was no actual sludge, I took this as an evaporation issue, rather than contamination.

 

Makes sense since Buttercup is fairly saturated rather than very pale yellow.

 

Thinking just a step further, seems the colors involved in crystal formation have some yellow content? So, to saturate enough to color adjust darker colors for yellow, might tip the scale to solids/crystalline level after evaporation occurs? (not your chemistry expert here, and we do have a few that visit).

[WaskiSquirrel]

I tried out this ink in a Noodler's Nib Creaper. It developed "crud" within a day, and it really clogged up the pen. In fairness, the "crud" does clean off easily. However, I didn't like the flow of the ink, and I think there is a lot of "crud" in the feed.

 

The pen did clean up easily and now works well with other inks.

 

I did discover that Noodler's Antietam ink has nearly the same color, and it seems to be far better behaved. I'm glad that all I bought was a sample of the Diamine.