Show Us Your Oblique Penholders!

[MusinkMan]

Thank you so much for the nod of approval, Ken. Means a lot. I sure do wish I could make my holders perform like that. Ahhhh, a guy can dream can't he?

 

Here are some more...several are commissions and ebay sales that I have to mail off tomorrow, some you guys have probably seen but some are fresh off the spindles. Mickey has helped me solve the Zanerian flange-making riddle, and that's how I'm doing them now rather than the epoxy & brass pin method. You guys should see my shop...hahahaha....it's all tailored to making custom oblique pen holders.

 

Edited June 14, 2013 by MusinkMan

[caliken]

Beautiful work as before, MusinkMan.

 

Ken

[smk]

Look what I found hiding inside a wood block

 

 

This is reverse view - here's what it looks right-side-up:

 

 

It turns out to be well balanced and is quite light. I don't know what kind of wood that is but it was quite soft so couldn't do anything too intricate with it.

 

There is no finish on it and the flange is 'borrowed' from another holder - I have just moved and don't have my tools and supplies. this was made with a utility knife, some sandpaper and the smallest screwdriver in my Leatherman :-)

 

Salman

[MusinkMan]

I want it back now that you've turned it into art!!!! hahaha. It didn't look like that when I sent it to you, Salman!

 

That is reclaimed red cedar that I got from an old fence someone was tearing down. About 35 yrs. old. I had already planed the boards, so that's why it looks like new wood.

 

Verry verrrrry nice. How you found that nice sculpted holder in that old piece of fence is beyond me. Michaelangelo R U!

[MusinkMan]

Salman, what kind of brass do you use to fabricate your flanges? .010? .008?

[smk]

I really don't know how thick it is, I chose it by feel and stiffness from among some salvaged material from an old building. In fact I got two sheets and this is the thinner of the two - I know that doesn't tell you much :-) It is quite stiff though, just what I was looking for. I have enough for 10-15 more flanges and then I'll need to start looking for more.

 

Thanks for letting me know where the wood came from. I started carving my holders from wood salvaged from an old shelf I made from some left over walnut when I was in my teens. It seems like old wood talks to me :-)

 

S.

[MusinkMan]

Mickey and I have been experimenting with various metals to fabricate our flanges. Mickey has started using phosphor bronze and has had good luck with it. I am currently using .010 sheet brass, just the common variety. It works quite well. I have ordered some .008 "half hard" brass (also known as H02 brass). Mickey researched this and taught me about these different classifications, as I certainly didn't know what they were. The hope is that although a bit thinner than the common brass I was using, the thinner brass will have more "stiffness". We are ordering these materials from Amazon, so if you run out you might try them as your source. I'll let you know how the H02 brass works out. Meantime, the .010 "regular stuff" really works fine. Here is the link if you want to order some of it. It's not expensive.

 

http://www.amazon.com/16402-Brass-Sheet-6x12-010/dp/B004AFA9CA/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1371273566&sr=8-8&keywords=.010+brass

 

 

Here is the source for the H02 brass:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Unpolished-Finish-Temper-Thickness-Length/dp/B00CNM221I/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1371273685&sr=8-4&keywords=H02+brass

 

 

And the phosphor bronze that Mickey is using:

 

http://www.amazon.com/K-S-Engineering-16053-Bronze/dp/B000SZNGRQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1371273761&sr=8-1&keywords=phosphor+bronze+sheet

 

 

I hope that helps, in case you run out of your current stash.

[smk]

Thanks for the sources Musinkman - they'll come in handy when I need to order some.

 

It looks like the sheet I have is 0.010 as it seems to be the same thickness as the one on your holder - this is just a guess though, I don't presume to be able to tell a difference of 0.002 inches just by looking at it :-)

 

Salman

[MusinkMan]

Oh, but you can, believe it or not! I had some .015, and it was unmaleable; too thick and far too rigid. If you look at the edge, you can see the difference. If you have a Century holder, compare the flange thickness on the edge to the stuff I used. The Century is (I believe) .008. However, if .008 is used in the same hardness/temper as the .010 I used, it will be too flimsy. That's why I'm hoping that the H02 will be the ticket. Mickey is having great luck with the phosphor bronze, I'm thinking of ordering some. It also seems to be a very classy and attractive "rose" color.

[smk]

The concern I have with the more rigid alloys and/or tempers is that they might not last long with adjustments for different nibs and pressure from the shading - especially with the stiffer nibs.

 

I am most interested in seeing how Mickey's experiments turn out in the long run.

 

Salman

[MusinkMan]

I know what you mean, Salman. I have the same concerns. The H02 brass will be ok though, because it is not an alloy; it is pure brass. It is simply tempered to be a bit stiffer. Mickey was schooling me on all of this (he is some kind of genius, that guy). Brass seems to be the metal of choice for flanges these days, and .008 is used in all of my Century holders. I know that they are using a "stiffer" temper than the .010 we are using, because .008 would not be stiff enough; it would yield to pen pressure when lettering and would have too much "give". I have some .010 which I have been using and it really has given me zero problems. I'm just curious to see if the H02 will be just as stout in a thinner gauge. I'll let you know how it fares when it arrives.

 

The phosphor bronze...I am very curious about that. Mickey loves it so far, and I'm about to order some myself. Nothing ventured, nothing gained I guess. :-)

[Mickey]

  On 6/15/2013 at 6:30 AM, smk said:

The concern I have with the more rigid alloys and/or tempers is that they might not last long with adjustments for different nibs and pressure from the shading - especially with the stiffer nibs.

 

I am most interested in seeing how Mickey's experiments turn out in the long run.

 

Salman

 

regarding phosphorous bronze: I don't think metal fatigue (the result of work hardening) is going to be an issue. Once set, the flange doesn't tend to drift out of adjustment through use. The springiness also makes fit less critical: shifting between similar size nibs doesn't require nearly as much tweaking as with the softer brass. Copper alloys, like brass (and bronze) work harden (temper) when bent (plastic deformation) and for reasons I won't go into, it's probably better to have a flange which starts off uniformly harder than one which which is soft and gets chaotically hard only in the regions where it is repeated worked (bent).

 

The phosphorous bronze flange I'm using now is stiffer than its brass predecessor, less prone to flexing, and when it does flex, it snaps back faster. In other words, it acts more like an extension of the nib.

 

regarding HO2 (half hard) brass: I believe this is what is being used in most commercial flanges, though I wouldn't be surprised if harder tempers haven't been used. The flange on the Zanerian holder (available from John Neal and PIA) is made from a .008" brass that is much harder and stiffer than the 'dead soft' brass available in most hobby and hardware stores.

 

Addendum: as Musinkman has discovered, HO2 is not particularly hard, and may be what is generally available in hobby and hardware store. This suggest that the stiffer flanges are made of full hard (H04), extra hard (H06) or even spring (H08) temper brass.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Mickey

[MusinkMan]

OK, here's an update on the H02 .008 sheet brass. It's too soft, don't get it. I have a huge roll of it if anyone wants a good deal. LOL!

 

It just came in today, I made a flange from it and before I even installed it, I could tell that it was much too flimsy.

Will have to go to a hardened temper or stick with the .010.

 

I also received a new sheet of .010 last week...this one is noticeably stiffer than the first sheet I was using. I don't know the temper designation of it, it was just "generic" sheet brass that I ordered from Amazon.

 

But again...don't invest in any .008 at the H02 temper...it is too flimsy for oblique flanges.

[caliken]

  On 6/15/2013 at 3:35 AM, smk said:

Look what I found hiding inside a wood block

 

 

This is reverse view - here's what it looks right-side-up:

 

 

It turns out to be well balanced and is quite light. I don't know what kind of wood that is but it was quite soft so couldn't do anything too intricate with it.

 

There is no finish on it and the flange is 'borrowed' from another holder - I have just moved and don't have my tools and supplies. this was made with a utility knife, some sandpaper and the smallest screwdriver in my Leatherman :-)

 

Salman

This intrigues me, Salman. Do you have a basic plan before you start out, or does the shape evolve through creation? Either way, it's most impressive and a unique approach as your holders vary considerably. I expect that this is as close as you can get to the feeling of the holder being an extension of the hand.

 

Ken

[smk]

Ken - I usually have a general idea of what I want to make. In this case, I knew the wood was not suitable for fine carving so I stuck with large shapes. The two sections were originally one but I felt like exploring a step and this is where it got me.

 

This is another case of just getting started on something when you have a rough idea rather than figuring it all out first. This method, if we can call it that, has given me the best results with holders. I am exploring it more with Calligraphy now.

 

What I enjoy most is that once you are engaged it the process, you sometimes surprise yourself with the results. I'm making something but I don't know what its going to look like :-)

 

I think it would be hard for me to make two of something.

 

Salman

[Anne-Sophie]

Salman, the first time I saw the new and so unique holder, the name that came to my mind was dorsal fins.

 

I have tried to think of another name but I find this is apropriate.

 

When I first read Gordon Turner, I was quite irritated by his choice of wasting pages away from calligraphy and letter forms to the obscure making of oblique nib holders.

 

Little did I know how much fun I will have later, discovering the wonderful creations of our forum members.

 

Thank you for sharing the beautiful pictures and the creative process that goes into making those beauties.

[smk]

The name certainly fits Anne-Sophie.

 

I haven't read Gordon Turner's book but now that you have mentioned the instructions on oblique holders I'll see if I can get my hands on one.

[Anne-Sophie]

  On 6/15/2013 at 11:31 PM, MusinkMan said:

OK, here's an update on the H02 .008 sheet brass. It's too soft, don't get it. I have a huge roll of it if anyone wants a good deal. LOL!

 

It just came in today, I made a flange from it and before I even installed it, I could tell that it was much too flimsy.

Will have to go to a hardened temper or stick with the .010.

 

I also received a new sheet of .010 last week...this one is noticeably stiffer than the first sheet I was using. I don't know the temper designation of it, it was just "generic" sheet brass that I ordered from Amazon.

 

But again...don't invest in any .008 at the H02 temper...it is too flimsy for oblique flanges.

 

You might want to go on Etsy and check artists who do brass sculpting/stamping.

They would be grateful for the bargain as art supplies are so expensive.

[thang1thang2]

I was finally able to find your Etsy page, Musink! I love looking at your works of art. I'll be sure to buy one when I have some spare cash.

 

By the way, I chuckled a little when I saw your sign; I think I recognize who made it... Just a hunch

[MusinkMan]

Thank you, Thang1,2. I will refrain from commenting on Etsy because I don't want to violate anything on the forum. But I'm glad you found it! You like the banner/sign on the page? The "Great One" is incredible isn't he. Absolutely incredible.