Montblanc Ef Nib

[max dog]

I notice on my MB 145 EF nib, the side strokes are broader than the down strokes. On the Richard Binder site, it identifies nibs like these as "Arabic Italic" nib. Is this characteristic of all Montblanc EF nibs? MB EF nibs = Arabic Italic?

 

When I got my MB 145, I utilized the nib exchange program and sent my pen to Montblanc to get the medium nib exchanged for an EF, and this is what I got. Not complaining as it is a delight to write with as it adds character to the writing like most stubs or italics do.

 

Exerpt from Richard Binder site re Arabic Italic:

An Arabic/Hebrew italic is a special nib designed to make it easier for ordinary people to write scripts in which the horizontal strokes are broader than the vertical strokes. (it is not a calligrapher’s nib.) This nib is best adapted to Arabic and Hebrew, which are written from right to left; but it also works well for many left-to-right writing styles.

Edited February 10, 2013 by max dog

[Pen Nut]

Never noticed or heard of this. Interesting though. I have recently bought a 146 tester box so will dip the extra fine nib later and see how it writes.

[Keyser]

nonsense.

 

I write a lot in Hebrew, and there is no difference between strokes. and also, there are no Hebrew or Arabic italic. you have calligraphy for both languages, sure, but no italic.

what you do have, is day-to-day letters, like script or joint-letter writing in English, but still - what he says is not true at all. at the most you will have some difference in letters' writing direction - imagine you write the letter R, so you have a semicircle, a down stroke and a side stroke - but that's it.

 

p.s: the best selling nibs in Israel (for MB, anyway) are B. I had a discussion with the boutique manager, and apparently i'm one of the very few people who buy EF nibs. She told me that for every order they send out, they request for 5-10 EF top, in comparison to other nibs.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Keyser

[Chrissy]

Montblanc do sell Arabic nibs in some Countries. However, their EF nibs aren't Arabic nibs and they don't write similar strokes to Arabic nibs.

[Pen Nut]

nonsense.

 

I write a lot in Hebrew, and there is no difference between strokes. and also, there are no Hebrew or Arabic italic. you have calligraphy for both languages, sure, but no italic.

what you do have, is day-to-day letters, like script or joint-letter writing in English, but still - what he says is not true at all. at the most you will have some difference in letters' writing direction - imagine you write the letter R, so you have a semicircle, a down stroke and a side stroke - but that's it.

 

p.s: the best selling nibs in Israel (for MB, anyway) are B. I had a discussion with the boutique manager, and apparently i'm one of the very few people who buy EF nibs. She told me that for every order they send out, they request for 5-10 EF top, in comparison to other nibs.

 

Thats what I like ! A straight, no grey area, answer.

[smk]

Arabic writing is done with left-oblique nibs.

 

I have an MB 145 Chopin with an EF nib and it produces an even (albeit thicker than I would like) line in all directions.

 

I have also had the opportunity to try out all the MB nibs in various boutiques and have never found that kind of line variation in any of the nibs.

 

I don't know of anyone who writes Arabic with the cut described by Richard Binder as Hebrew/Arabic. I have tried to grind one of my nibs that way and found it hard to use for Arabic/Urdu (same script) writing.

 

Salman

[max dog]

Arabic writing is done with left-oblique nibs.

 

I have an MB 145 Chopin with an EF nib and it produces an even (albeit thicker than I would like) line in all directions.

 

I have also had the opportunity to try out all the MB nibs in various boutiques and have never found that kind of line variation in any of the nibs.

 

I don't know of anyone who writes Arabic with the cut described by Richard Binder as Hebrew/Arabic. I have tried to grind one of my nibs that way and found it hard to use for Arabic/Urdu (same script) writing.

 

Salman

 

That's interesting. The side strokes are defintaely broader than down strokes on my 145 EF from Montblanc. I'd post a writing sample to illurate this but I just cleaned and stored my 145, as my new 146 just arrived!!! From the replies thus far it seems mine is the exception then, but here is a link to another thread at FPN that supports what I found with my EF. Perhaps it's not accurate to call it an arabic italic, but rather "stubbish with arabic characteristics".

MB EF

Edited February 10, 2013 by max dog

[Dillo]

nonsense.

 

I write a lot in Hebrew, and there is no difference between strokes. and also, there are no Hebrew or Arabic italic. you have calligraphy for both languages, sure, but no italic.

what you do have, is day-to-day letters, like script or joint-letter writing in English, but still - what he says is not true at all. at the most you will have some difference in letters' writing direction - imagine you write the letter R, so you have a semicircle, a down stroke and a side stroke - but that's it.

 

p.s: the best selling nibs in Israel (for MB, anyway) are B. I had a discussion with the boutique manager, and apparently i'm one of the very few people who buy EF nibs. She told me that for every order they send out, they request for 5-10 EF top, in comparison to other nibs.

 

I also write a lot in Hebrew, and I also use regular nibs all the time. I use everything from extra fine to medium, and I like the way it looks better if I use a regular nib.

 

Anyway, some extra-fine nibs have this characteristic. I usually regrind them to make them have the same stroke width in any direction.

 

Dillon

[smk]

Arabic writing is done with left-oblique nibs.

 

I have an MB 145 Chopin with an EF nib and it produces an even (albeit thicker than I would like) line in all directions.

 

I have also had the opportunity to try out all the MB nibs in various boutiques and have never found that kind of line variation in any of the nibs.

 

I don't know of anyone who writes Arabic with the cut described by Richard Binder as Hebrew/Arabic. I have tried to grind one of my nibs that way and found it hard to use for Arabic/Urdu (same script) writing.

 

Salman

 

That's interesting. The side strokes are defintaely broader than down strokes on my 145 EF from Montblanc. I'd post a writing sample to illurate this but I just cleaned and stored my 145, as my new 146 just arrived!!! From the replies thus far it seems mine is the exception then, but here is a link to another thread at FPN that supports what I found with my EF. Perhaps it's not accurate to call it an arabic italic, but rather "stubbish with arabic characteristics".

MB EF

 

The EF nib on my MB turns up very slightly at the tip. It might be that you hold the pen at a low enough angle to cause the variation you are noticing. I tried it out with mine and I do get a little of what you see if I hold the pen fairly low i.e. letting it drop to the web at the base of the thumb. (I normally hold the pen so the body is resting at about the base of the forefinger.)

 

S.

[Keyser]

we need to distinguish between changes that are caused by the nib's shaps and characteristics, and those that are caused just by the way nibs work. when you do a down-side stroke, the nib opens a bit more than in a side-stroke thus enabling a bit more ink to follow. it's not something that is caused because the nib was made for this and that use; it's just the way it is. it's also depends of material the nib is made of and it's level of yielding. in another pen, which have a very very inflexible nib you'd get the same lines no matter what. in another, with a more flexible nib it's possible that writing pressure is not equal in all directions, so you get finer line there and bold here. be that as it may - it's not a special feature of the nib, not a special purpose the nib was made for. this is just how nibs work.

 

i write in a mild pressure, and i get equal line all around. if what is claimed was true, than i should have different lines regardless.

[max dog]

Arabic writing is done with left-oblique nibs.

 

I have an MB 145 Chopin with an EF nib and it produces an even (albeit thicker than I would like) line in all directions.

 

I have also had the opportunity to try out all the MB nibs in various boutiques and have never found that kind of line variation in any of the nibs.

 

I don't know of anyone who writes Arabic with the cut described by Richard Binder as Hebrew/Arabic. I have tried to grind one of my nibs that way and found it hard to use for Arabic/Urdu (same script) writing.

 

Salman

 

That's interesting. The side strokes are defintaely broader than down strokes on my 145 EF from Montblanc. I'd post a writing sample to illurate this but I just cleaned and stored my 145, as my new 146 just arrived!!! From the replies thus far it seems mine is the exception then, but here is a link to another thread at FPN that supports what I found with my EF. Perhaps it's not accurate to call it an arabic italic, but rather "stubbish with arabic characteristics".

MB EF

 

The EF nib on my MB turns up very slightly at the tip. It might be that you hold the pen at a low enough angle to cause the variation you are noticing. I tried it out with mine and I do get a little of what you see if I hold the pen fairly low i.e. letting it drop to the web at the base of the thumb. (I normally hold the pen so the body is resting at about the base of the forefinger.)

 

S.

 

 

I see what you mean. The shape of the nib tip is such that the higher the angle I hold the pen up, the contact footprint becomes more even between the side and up strokes. When I hold it at a lower angle which I naturaly tend to do, the contact footprint is broader in the side stroke. It behaves a bit like a "zoom" nib too! Thanks for the observation. Learn something new every day.

 

PS:

I also now notice, the higher the angle you hold the pen, the finer the line with more feedback, like a true extra-fine point. At the lower angle, it writes like a medium line with a smoother feel too like a medium point. That's pretty nice. I can almost go between EF and M by varying the angle of the pen.

Edited February 12, 2013 by max dog

[Keyser]

Could you please reference the angles to something? I want to write like you didDo I hold the pen so the nib is closer or further from my fingers?

[smk]

The angles are with reference to the horizontal plane i.e. the paper. A lower angle hold means the top end of the pen is closer to the paper than for a higher angle hold.

 

When I hold the pen in a normal tripod hold, the body of the pen rests at about the base of my forefinger. This is the 'high' angle.

 

For a lower angle, I let the body drop to the web at the base of my thumb. This is not very comfortable for me but there's nothing wrong with holding a pen at this angle.

 

I notice only a slight variation with the lower hold and that only because I'm looking for it. MB nibs are individually finished so there might be more variation in other nibs.

 

Salman

[Keyser]

Thank you very much! I started to write as you have said, and although I will have to get used to a new writing position, my arm doesn't feel tired and I can produce hair-thin, dense letters like I like

[smk]

The discovery was pure chance for me too. I would never have noticed it if max dog had not brought it up. Cool how things work out sometimes :-)

 

S.

Edited February 12, 2013 by smk

[max dog]

The 145 EF nib is versatile. I like my 145 even more now.

Here is a picture to illustrate the line variation by varying the angle of the pen relative to the paper.

 

At the higher angle it lays down a fine line, and lower angle a medium line.

 

Edited February 13, 2013 by max dog

[hari317]

nonsense.

 

I write a lot in Hebrew, and there is no difference between strokes. and also, there are no Hebrew or Arabic italic. you have calligraphy for both languages, sure, but no italic.

what you do have, is day-to-day letters, like script or joint-letter writing in English, but still - what he says is not true at all. at the most you will have some difference in letters' writing direction - imagine you write the letter R, so you have a semicircle, a down stroke and a side stroke - but that's it.

 

p.s: the best selling nibs in Israel (for MB, anyway) are B. I had a discussion with the boutique manager, and apparently i'm one of the very few people who buy EF nibs. She told me that for every order they send out, they request for 5-10 EF top, in comparison to other nibs.

 

Thats what I like ! A straight, no grey area, answer.

 

Arabic writing is done with left-oblique nibs.

 

absolutely. that is the way it is done here too. Devanagari script is best served with a round nib or to make it more stylish, a Right oblique nib.

 

At the higher angle it lays down a fine line, and lower angle a medium line.

 

your EF nib writes way fat IMO.

Edited February 13, 2013 by hari317

[max dog]

The 145 EF nib is versatile. I like my 145 even more now.

Here is a picture to illustrate the line variation by varying the angle of the pen relative to the paper.

At the higher angle it lays down a fine line, and lower angle a medium line.

 

[Mickey]

I don't think this is limited to MB nibs by any means. Most of my pens are EF or finer and all display similar behavior. I suspect it is because for strokes in line with the slit, the width of the slit dominates* line width whereas on side strokes the contact patch dominates. It's only on pens where the combination of wetness, slit width, and grind are in tune that you get perfectly omnidirectional performance.

 

Also, consider that the slit is tapered. When you lower the pen angle, you expose a slighter broader segment of the slit to the page, a segment which is not only broader but also closer to the ink reservoir. The pen writes wetter and thus broader. (Dip pens, which have no tipping, exhibit much the same behavior.)

 

* n.b. dominates line width not dictates, but on very fine nibs it is much the same thing. Flow trumps grind. For F and broader nibs, this phenomenon is less noticeable.