Zanerian Fine Arts Oblique Penholder

[picopox]

Does anyone have the equipment to make one of these? The long needle-like shaft seems pretty hard to do but I'm a complete novice to wood turning.

 

 

The details of the penholder is here in this old ad:

 

A actual picture of the holder is here:

 

http://www.zanerian.com/ZanOblique12.html

 

Obviously I don't need the ivory. =)

[Inspector]

What you are looking for are the same methods used to turn Trembleurs. They do take skill to make but with practice you should be able to do them on your lathe. I haven't done any turning like that yet.

 

http://www.woodturningonline.com/Turning/Turning_projects.php?catid=63

 

http://www.lavieenbois.com/html/trembleur_eng.htm

 

 

Pete

[picopox]

Thanks for the info, Pete!

 

I didn't even know things like trembleurs exist and the steady rests with strings is an ingenious idea!

 

I would totally make one but I don't have a lathe because they cost too much and I don't have space for it. =(

[Inspector]

I took your statement about being a novice to mean you had a lathe or at least access to one. Depending where you live there are lots of small inexpensive lathes that can be set up on a kitchen table or as some have done, make a closet into a little workshop that pens through pepper mills can be made on.

 

Pete

[Mickey]

Here's a strategy which doesn't require a lathe.

 

1. Purchase a Carrot (a holder available from Paper and Ink Arts), a length of dowel (wood of your choice), and a small disk of something which resembles ivory.

 

2. With a razor saw, cut the Carrot at a place where the holder is somewhat larger than the dowel. (How much larger depends on your skill for the next step.)

 

3. Drill a hole down the center of the Carrot equal to the diameter of your dowel. It would probably be a good idea to reinforce the skinny end of the carrot with a few wraps of tape. Drill the same sized hole in the disk.

 

4. Cut the Carrot again, just above where you intend to grip. Save both halves.

 

5. Glue up Carrot, plastic disc, and the just severed piece of carrot, inserting the dowel down the center.

 

6. Allow the materials to harden, then file and sand to the desired size, shape and smoothness. Seal and finish.

 

As Porky would say, th th th th that's all folks.

[watch_art]

I can't picture this for the life of me. Anybody got pics?

Sounds very cool.

 

Here's a strategy which doesn't require a lathe.

 

1. Purchase a Carrot (a holder available from Paper and Ink Arts), a length of dowel (wood of your choice), and a small disk of something which resembles ivory.

 

2. With a razor saw, cut the Carrot at a place where the holder is somewhat larger than the dowel. (How much larger depends on your skill for the next step.)

 

3. Drill a hole down the center of the Carrot equal to the diameter of your dowel. It would probably be a good idea to reinforce the skinny end of the carrot with a few wraps of tape. Drill the same sized hole in the disk.

 

4. Cut the Carrot again, just above where you intend to grip. Save both halves.

 

5. Glue up Carrot, plastic disc, and the just severed piece of carrot, inserting the dowel down the center.

 

6. Allow the materials to harden, then file and sand to the desired size, shape and smoothness. Seal and finish.

 

As Porky would say, th th th th that's all folks.

[Mickey]

I can't picture this for the life of me. Anybody got pics?

Sounds very cool.

 

Here's a strategy which doesn't require a lathe.

 

 

My concept was to make something that looked a bit like the Zanerian holder pictured at the top of the thread, but which did not require a lathe to produce. So far, it exists only as a construction plan, which was to cut down a short slightly fat oblique holder, splice a long tail into it (along with a decorative ring), and sand until graceful. The really difficult thing about the sort of lathe work required for long pen shafts is removing all the wood from the skinny end of the shaft. In my conception, most of that material would be gone before you start.

 

Added: I recent tried whittling a Skeels style holder. My first attempt is a real ugly spud and not a joy to use, but it works, I learned a lot from the exercise, and will probably try again, maybe in a few weeks.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Mickey

[smk]

I don't have a lathe but gave it a go anyway to see what I could manage with a bit of elbow grease and careful measuring. Here's where I'm at:

 

 

Actually I'm a bit ahead of this point but haven't taken pictures yet. I managed to get the shaft a bit thinner than it is in this picture.

 

It took patience and not a little luck to get it right. The overall length is just a tad over 12". A technique I 'invented' for sanding down the shaft helped a lot: I split a 2" length of bamboo along the length and sandwiched a rough grit sandpaper between the two halves padded with some foam. The shaft went in the middle of the sandwich. the curve in the bamboo allowed me to slide the thing up and down the shaft keeping it straight while the foam provided gentle and uniform pressure along the 2" length.

 

I like the end the way it is and decided to leave it for now. I can always take more off and make it look closer to the real thing.

 

More pictures tomorrow with some finish on it and the flange attached.

 

Salman

Edited May 8, 2012 by smk

[picopox]

That's actually very impressive, Salmon. With the tooling you have made it is actually quite simple to duplicate. Given enough time and patience, replicating a Zanerian pen is suddenly very possible without a lathe.

 

Can't wait to see how it looks when finished. Flourish something for us when it's done to inaugurate it or something haha

[smk]

 

My concept was to make something that looked a bit like the Zanerian holder pictured at the top of the thread, but which did not require a lathe to produce. So far, it exists only as a construction plan, which was to cut down a short slightly fat oblique holder, splice a long tail into it (along with a decorative ring), and sand until graceful. The really difficult thing about the sort of lathe work required for long pen shafts is removing all the wood from the skinny end of the shaft. In my conception, most of that material would be gone before you start.

 

Added: I recent tried whittling a Skeels style holder. My first attempt is a real ugly spud and not a joy to use, but it works, I learned a lot from the exercise, and will probably try again, maybe in a few weeks.

 

Your plan for grafting a dowel into an existing is pretty smart - I'm going to keep an eye out for a dowel in an appropriate wood.

 

I have a question about the Skeels style holder - where do you grip it and what does the curve in the shaft do? I can't figure out what problem this style solves.

 

Edit: Thanks picopox. The holder is surprising well balanced. The extra long shaft doesn't feel as unwieldy as it seems. I will upload more pictures tomorrow.

 

Salman

Edited May 8, 2012 by smk

[Mickey]

I have a question about the Skeels style holder - where do you grip it and what does the curve in the shaft do? I can't figure out what problem this style solves.

 

Salman

 

Here's my best guess, judging from my experiment and the photo on the Zanerian web site.

 

http://www.zanerian.com/Skeels.html

 

Let the flange be your guide. As the holder sits on the table, the flange appears to be turned out, rather than in, as would be normal.. Mentally turn the holder about 45 degrees into the plane of the photo, such that you can comfortably put your index finger between the two bends. This, I believe also puts the flange (and nib) in the correct position. If you can see a little dark pit in the wood between the bends, I believe that is where the tip of the index finger should rest.

 

Here is my theory of the design, derived solely from looking at the photo and attempting to whittle one. I can't attest to its validity. The purpose of the two curves is to effect the angling normally effected by the flange (this is a safe assumption), provide a right-hand favoring grip (an hourglass shape is equally friendly or unfriendly to left and right handers), and (possibly) shift the shaft and it's mass toward (or even past) the first knuckle. This final conjecture (shifting the mass) could do a few things: counter-balance the flange and nib (and thus reduce the tendency for some holders to roll in that direction) and bring the center of mass for the holder and nib in line with and over the index finger, rather than being offset toward the web side. Theoretically, this would make the pen feel more like an extension of the index finger, but who knows?

 

As I said, I learned something from the exercise, but other than the importance of sharp tools, I can't vouch for any of it. (BTW, lovely job on the Zanerian holder and a very clever idea for the bamboo sanding jig.)

Edited May 8, 2012 by Mickey

[smk]

Mickey - thanks for the detailed explanation. I think I can understand the reason for the design as you explain it. I don't think I have experienced this rolling moment though, even when using fairly stiff nibs like the Nikko G or Gillot 404. I'm sure it was useful for some people and I'll probably experiment with the shape to see if I can feel any difference.

 

On to the Zanerian replica I have been toiling over. Here's the completed article:

 

 

And the detail of the 'working parts':

 

 

While its not as unbalanced as it might appear I feel that shorter holders work better for me. It might just be that I left a bit too much weight 'up top' but mass is mass and will make itself felt however light it is.

 

So there it is - a Zanerian replica holder made entirely by hand.

 

Salman

[Mickey]

Mickey - thanks for the detailed explanation. I think I can understand the reason for the design as you explain it. I don't think I have experienced this rolling moment though, even when using fairly stiff nibs like the Nikko G or Gillot 404. I'm sure it was useful for some people and I'll probably experiment with the shape to see if I can feel any difference.

 

 

I don't think the effect is very pronounced, but I noticed my grip is more relaxed with the one holder I have which doesn't tend to roll flange side down when simply resting in the notch between my thumb and 2nd finger.

[caliken]

Beautiful work, Salman. You are a true artist!

[smk]

Beautiful work, Salman. You are a true artist!

 

Thank you Ken - I have to say I wasn't sure if this one will come out all right. This holder is growing on me. So much so that I have been thinking of making another one with a bit of flair to it - thoughts like these can land one in trouble!!!

 

Salman

[ljkd13]

That's fantastic work, Salman. Where do you get the metal piece for the nib holder? Or do you make those as well? Is it brass?

[smk]

That's fantastic work, Salman. Where do you get the metal piece for the nib holder? Or do you make those as well? Is it brass?

 

Thanks ljkd13. I make the flanges from brass sheet. It takes a little bit of practice but is not all that hard to master. I usually polish the brass up but left it with the patina for this one as I think it lends the holder a period look.

 

Salman

[peggo]

Mickey - thanks for the detailed explanation. I think I can understand the reason for the design as you explain it. I don't think I have experienced this rolling moment though, even when using fairly stiff nibs like the Nikko G or Gillot 404. I'm sure it was useful for some people and I'll probably experiment with the shape to see if I can feel any difference.

 

On to the Zanerian replica I have been toiling over. Here's the completed article:

 

 

And the detail of the 'working parts':

 

 

While its not as unbalanced as it might appear I feel that shorter holders work better for me. It might just be that I left a bit too much weight 'up top' but mass is mass and will make itself felt however light it is.

 

So there it is - a Zanerian replica holder made entirely by hand.

 

Salman

 

You done a really beautiful job here Salman!

It's looks well proportioned and so fine crafted, I just wish get an original one or at least know how could I make one.

 

Kind regards

Pedro

[smk]

Thank you Pedro.

 

Here are the dimensions I estimated from a picture. I got these by comparing the various dimensions with the length (which I took to be 12" exactly).

 

I did try to estimate the dimensions by comparing the various sizes with the length (which I took to be exactly 12 inches).

 

Starting from the nib end, here are the estimates I came up with:

 

1. Thickness at the flat (i.e. nib) end: 0.455" (I guess 0.5 " is good)

2. Thickness at the narrow part just short of the end (where the forefinger would rest): 0.325"

3. Distance of the narrow part above from the end of the holder (i.e. b/w 1 & 2): 0.55"

 

4. Thickness at the thickest part: 0.455" (0.5" would be good)

5. Distance from the narrow part to the thickest part (i.e. b/w 2 & 4): 1.2"

 

6. Thickness of the stem: 0.14"

7. Distance between the thickest part to the start of the thin part (i.e. b/w 4 & 6): 1" (approx. since)

 

8. Thickness of the bulb at the end: 0.2"

 

I used the highest resolution picture I could find but it still had a some blurriness when enlarged enough to do the estimates so there must be some discrepancy in these numbers - which is why these are only 'estimates' :-)

 

I hope it makes sense.

 

Salman

[Bruno]

I have an identical pen to the one pictured. If precise measurements are needed, contact me back channel and I'll measure with my calipers and micrometers.

 

-Bruno