Titanium Nib From Bock

[Feanaaro]

Thanks Drone, fantastic help. Thank you so much. I'll let you know when I manage to do this.

[Drone]

  On 11/1/2014 at 3:32 PM, Feanaaro said:

Thanks Drone, fantastic help. Thank you so much. I'll let you know when I manage to do this.

 

Godere il mio amico Feanaaro...

 

N.B. my 'command' of Italian is at-best helped by machines. But I would like to say that your command of English here is very good.

 

Please do let us know if and when you have success with your Mujji nib-swap. By feeding-back you help us to help others.

 

Best Regards, David

[Feanaaro]

I've bitten, and bought both the fine nib with feed unit and an extra fine without unit, so that I can both check whether the entire feed unit fit and whether I prefer the fine or extra-fine size. That's quite a lot of money and effort to spend on a 15.50$ pen, but this little aluminum cylinder feels so nice that I want to try my first DIY on this. (also, now I actually want the aluminum nexus pen that David incidentally linked...).

[Drone]

  On 11/2/2014 at 6:01 PM, Feanaaro said:

I've bitten, and bought both the fine nib with feed unit and an extra fine without unit, so that I can both check whether the entire feed unit fit and whether I prefer the fine or extra-fine size. That's quite a lot of money and effort to spend on a 15.50$ pen, but this little aluminum cylinder feels so nice that I want to try my first DIY on this. (also, now I actually want the aluminum nexus pen that David incidentally linked...).

 

Feanaaro, Where did you find the Bock EF nibs in-stock and how much was the shipping?

[Feanaaro]

Same place you mentioned: The Classic Nib. They appeared to have an abundance of them, maybe they restocked in between your post and my purchase.

Shipment 6.95 total (but would have been the same even while ordering just one, which is part of the reason why I got both the nib and the entire unit).

[Drone]

  On 11/3/2014 at 4:37 PM, Feanaaro said:

Same place you mentioned: The Classic Nib. They appeared to have an abundance of them, maybe they restocked in between your post and my purchase.

Shipment 6.95 total (but would have been the same even while ordering just one, which is part of the reason why I got both the nib and the entire unit).

 

Ah, perhaps you got the polished stainless steel No.5 extra-fine and fine, there seems to be plenty of stock for those. The gold-plated No.5 extra-fine and fine are out of stock. The international shipping seems reasonable though. Probably because it is just a small envelope. That 's important for me, I'm in Indonesia.

[kpyeoman]

hisnibs.com also sells the Stipula T-flex nib independent of a pen (which I believe is the Bock titanium nib with Stipula stamping) for ~$140.00. Pretty big dough, but an option none-the-less.

[Drone]

  On 11/4/2014 at 3:56 AM, kpyeoman said:

hisnibs.com also sells the Stipula T-flex nib independent of a pen (which I believe is the Bock titanium nib with Stipula stamping) for ~$140.00. Pretty big dough, but an option none-the-less.

 

$140 So that's $40 street price for the Bock Ti nib unit, then add $100 to stamp the Stipula logo on it... sounds like Yafa/Stipula all right

[Drone]

You know, if the Stipula T-Flex is in-fact the Bock Titanium triple nib unit, then that does not bode well for the performance. The Stipula T-flex nibs are known for poor flow and railroading when flexed.

 

But to be fair, I don;t remember ever seeing Bock claim their Titanium triple is designed to flex. Maybe that's something a Marketing person at Stipula came up with.

[Tweel]

I think the Stipula nibs are made in-house.

[Drone]

  On 11/5/2014 at 4:49 AM, Tweel said:

I think the Stipula nibs are made in-house.

 

Hmmm... that very well may be true. I don't have a clue at this point. I did a brief Web search and perused the Stipula site to see if I could find anything definitive on the subject, but didn;t.

 

BTW Stipula sells their Titanium No. 6 T-Flex nibs stand-alone for 100 Euros each (ouch). Here;s a link to the T-Flex nib sales page:

 

http://www.penemporium.com/cat_prodotto.php?id_prodotto=1106010

 

Here are all of Stipula's nibs for sale. A Gold nib is 395 Euros (quadruple ouch!):

 

http://www.penemporium.com/cat_famiglia.php?id_famiglia=709190

 

I guess you could try to stick a Stipula T-Flex in a Noodler's Ahab or Konrad. The Ebonite feed when hacked and heat-set might feed the nib well, Or maybe stick the Noodler's Ebonite feed in a Stipula Model-T so it doesn't railroad? Either way I would like to try grinding a T-Flex nib for added flex. I've never hacked on a titanium nib before.

[Tweel]

They don't look like Bock nibs to me, and somewhere on the Web I ran across an interview with the president (I think) of Stipula in which he said they're still working on their fabrication techniques ( I imagine titanium welding techniques) so that they can put smaller pellets on their nibs, allowing a finer point than the current one. I couldn't seem to Google my way back to that interview to provide a link, though.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Tweel

[Feanaaro]

Ok... the Bock nibs arrived and I did it.

Here are some pics, sorry for the crappy quality.

 

Disassembled pen and nibs:

 

 

Close-up of the nibs, the original one, the EF Bock (nib only) and F Bock (nib+unit)

 

It wasn't easy for me, but I managed to get out the old nib and put in the new one. Problem is that while the old one was even too wet, the Bock is a little too dry, to the point of skipping some times. That is not the fault of the nib itself, since I tried to ink the Bock unit and it flows very well. So I guess that either I cannot align perfectly the new nib in the old feed, or I managed to damage the feed while disassembling and reassembling it (I had to use quite a bit of force... maybe because I did not exactly know how to do it better). Or, third possibility, the bock nibs work better with the bock feed than with the original one. Unfortunately the Bock feed is too long to fit in the housing of the original one. The entire unit would fit within the pen, and maybe that would be the optimal solution, but I am unable to remove the entire original unit from the pen – that is to say, the housing of the feed – I don't know if it is glued or what.

So, I don't know if I am happy. Also the difference between the F and EF of Bock is very minimal, and both are only marginally narrower than the original one.

Finally, my previously very white apartment is now mostly of a beautiful midnight blue color.

 

Edit: the links to the pics do not seem to work... is dropbox linking incompatible with this forum?

Re-edit: now the images work. I had the dumb before, sorry.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Feanaaro

[stevesurf]

  On 11/7/2014 at 2:01 AM, Feanaaro said:

Ok... the Bock nibs arrived and I did it.

Here are some pics, sorry for the crappy quality.

Disassembled pen and nibs:

Close-up of the nibs, the original one, the EF Bock (nib only) and F Bock (nib+unit)

 

It wasn't easy for me, but I managed to get out the old nib and put in the new one. Problem is that while the old one was even too wet, the Bock is a little too dry, to the point of skipping some times. That is not the fault of the nib itself, since I tried to ink the Bock unit and it flows very well. So I guess that either I cannot align perfectly the new nib in the old feed, or I managed to damage the feed while disassembling and reassembling it (I had to use quite a bit of force... maybe because I did not exactly know how to do it better). Or, third possibility, the bock nibs work better with the bock feed than with the original one. Unfortunately the Bock feed is too long to fit in the housing of the original one. The entire unit would fit within the pen, and maybe that would be the optimal solution, but I am unable to remove the entire original unit from the pen – that is to say, the housing of the feed – I don't know if it is glued or what.

So, I don't know if I am happy, also the difference between the F and EF of Bock is very minimal, and both are only marginally narrower than the original one.

Also, my previously very white apartment is now mostly of a beautiful midnight blue color.

 

Edit: the links to the pics do not seem to work... is dropbox linking incompatible with this forum?

 

As a fan of Ti nibs, I'd love to see the pictures. You should just be able to simply attach the pictures to the post. If not, I know Google Photos work file, and the links are permanent

[Feanaaro]

It's not a titanium nib, I just bought the regular steel nibs as I wanted a finer line than the one given by the original nib. And did not really got it. Meanwhile, with a little more elbow grease, I think I managed to get the nib into proper alignment, so now the ink flow is good, but the line is still very similar, if not identical, to the one given by the original nib.

[Drone]

  On 11/7/2014 at 2:01 AM, Feanaaro said:

Ok... the Bock nibs arrived and I did it.

Here are some pics, sorry for the crappy quality.

 

Disassembled pen and nibs:

2014-11-06 18.58.31.jpg

 

 

Close-up of the nibs, the original one, the EF Bock (nib only) and F Bock (nib+unit)

2014-11-06 18.59.21.jpg

 

It wasn't easy for me, but I managed to get out the old nib and put in the new one. Problem is that while the old one was even too wet, the Bock is a little too dry, to the point of skipping some times. That is not the fault of the nib itself, since I tried to ink the Bock unit and it flows very well. So I guess that either I cannot align perfectly the new nib in the old feed, or I managed to damage the feed while disassembling and reassembling it (I had to use quite a bit of force... maybe because I did not exactly know how to do it better). Or, third possibility, the bock nibs work better with the bock feed than with the original one. Unfortunately the Bock feed is too long to fit in the housing of the original one. The entire unit would fit within the pen, and maybe that would be the optimal solution, but I am unable to remove the entire original unit from the pen – that is to say, the housing of the feed – I don't know if it is glued or what.

So, I don't know if I am happy. Also the difference between the F and EF of Bock is very minimal, and both are only marginally narrower than the original one.

Finally, my previously very white apartment is now mostly of a beautiful midnight blue color.

 

Edit: the links to the pics do not seem to work... is dropbox linking incompatible with this forum?

Re-edit: now the images work. I had the dumb before, sorry.

 

Hmmm... About the flow issue:

 

Low flow may mean the nib is not clean and/or is not making good contact with the feed.

 

1. Try cleaning the new Bock nib. Really scrub it down with dish washing soap using a toothbrush or similar. You want to be sure all oils and any other manufacturing materials are removed from the nib. Since you already inserted the new nib, try to clean the nib unit in soapy water too, just in-case some residual oils or cooling fluids on the new nib got inside the nib unit.

 

2. Examine carefully how the new Bock nib makes contact with the old feed. It is common for a new (different) nib to not "hug" the feed properly. With the old and new nibs out of the pen, put them on top of each other and compare how the two nibs match each other in shape and curvature. When I see this, I carefully bend the nib so the radius of the nib's curvature is increased or decreased as needed to match that of the feed. The fact that you are having a tough time inserting or removing the new nib may be a result of the nib not conforming to the same shape as the original nib.

 

3. With the nib inserted in the pen, look carefully from the side of the nib and try to see if there is a space or gap between the nib and the feed, especially a gap that widens as you get closer to the tip of the nib. If there is a gap, you can remedy this by bending the nib slightly, which is best done with the nib out of the pen. Again, another way to check the nibs are to put them on top of each other and see if they meet well. Although it is harder to see sometimes, the opposite situation may occur, namely the nib is "humped" and making good contact at the tip but not at the middle of the nib. But this is less common than the nib being bent up away from the nib. Either way, gently bending the nib so it makes full contact with the feed is the cure.

 

One thing that may make inserting the new nib easier - at least as easy as the original nib: Put the old and new nib on top of each other when they are out of the pen. Look carefully at the shape of the nib, especially at the size and shape of the nib near in the area where the nib inserts into the nib unit. If you see that the new nib may be a bit larger than the original nib, you can mark off how much larger with a permanent marker then file it away. Be sure to use a fine file and remove any sharp edges after filing.

 

The most important thing is to not give up! Hacking on your pen and getting it "just right" is all part of the fun :-)

[Drone]

  On 11/7/2014 at 3:40 AM, Feanaaro said:

It's not a titanium nib, I just bought the regular steel nibs as I wanted a finer line than the one given by the original nib. And did not really got it. Meanwhile, with a little more elbow grease, I think I managed to get the nib into proper alignment, so now the ink flow is good, but the line is still very similar, if not identical, to the one given by the original nib.

 

it is disappointing to hear the Bock EF and F nibs are so much alike. You could send an Email to Peter Bock Co. (link in one of my previous posts) and ask them about this. I have heard they sometimes respond and try to help.

 

The other thing you can do is grind the nib down to be finer yourself. You have two spare nibs - so why not try There is plenty of help elsewhere here on FPN and on the web on grinding and polishing nibs, but basically you need some very simple tools like a fine circular jeweler's file, a magnifier or eye-loupe, and some nail polishing sticks that go from course to very fine grit. Personally I use a variable speed rotary Dremel-like tool clamped to my bench for grinding nibs. But for your first grind, I recommend using a fine jeweler's rat-tail or half-circle hand file.

 

A few grinding tips:

 

Remember, go slowly when you file. Don't push on the file! Let the tool do the work, not your hand. When you work, alternate between the left and right sides of the nib to keep it symmetrical. Always pause between grinding in small amounts to carefully inspect the work and nib alignment with the magnifier. When you are done grinding, it is very important to realign the tines of the nib before smoothing the nib with the fine grit nail polisher. Be sure to wet the fine grit nail polishing surface with water (I mild diluted soapy water). A nail polishing stick is good for more than just polishing the tip of the nib, it should also be used to polish and debur the surfaces you filed away when you are done. Thoroughly clean the nib when you are finished grinding and polishing. You want to remove all soapy or oily residues before reinserting the nib so you don't have a flow problem.

 

You can make the nib any shape you like once you are able to grind it yourself.

 

Look in the "Repair Q&A" area here on FPN - or post a question about nib grinding.

[Drone]

  On 11/6/2014 at 9:01 PM, Tweel said:

They don't look like Bock nibs to me, and somewhere on the Web I ran across an interview with the president (I think) of Stipula in which he said they're still working on their fabrication techniques ( I imagine titanium welding techniques) so that they can put smaller pellets on their nibs, allowing a finer point than the current one. I couldn't seem to Google my way back to that interview to provide a link, though.

 

For comparison purposes, side-by-side here are the only two pictures I have of the standard Bock titanium nib and the Stipula T-flex nib. Both were scraped from the Web.

 

It is kind of hard for me to tell, but the Stipula nib looks like it has longer tines. But that doesn't mean it wasn't made by Bock. Bock makes nibs to the customer's specifications when the customer is buying in volume.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2014 by Drone

[Feanaaro]

Thanks. But filing the nib is really to much for the moment. I think I managed to fit the nib properly, as it now the flow is acceptable, even if still drier than the original nib (which is not a bad thing, as that was too wet to be used in quick note-taking. I'll check on the shapes anyway.

 

The strange thing is that the Bock nibs (even if they still are very close between themselves) do in fact write a finer line, even with a more consistent ink-flow, if they are in their original feed unit than in the new one. Still think that the best thing would be to swap the whole unit, but I cannot remove the original one no matter how hard I try (and would not want to try much harder, or I'd fear breaking the plastic).

[Drone]

  On 11/7/2014 at 1:56 PM, Feanaaro said:

Thanks. But filing the nib is really to much for the moment. I think I managed to fit the nib properly, as it now the flow is acceptable, even if still drier than the original nib (which is not a bad thing, as that was too wet to be used in quick note-taking. I'll check on the shapes anyway.

 

The strange thing is that the Bock nibs (even if they still are very close between themselves) do in fact write a finer line, even with a more consistent ink-flow, if they are in their original feed unit than in the new one. Still think that the best thing would be to swap the whole unit, but I cannot remove the original one no matter how hard I try (and would not want to try much harder, or I'd fear breaking the plastic).

 

Hmmm... I seem to remember from one of the pictures of the Muji pens disassembled that the nib unit comes out. Did you try to pull it straight out as well as unscrew it?

 

Sometimes a stubborn nib unit can be stuck for a couple of reasons. One being old dried up ink - which may be loosened up by soaking the section in mild soapy water for awhile (even over night).

 

Another technique is to run the section under warm (or even hot, but not too hot) water. This expands the section so the nib unit is easier to remove. This works best with metal sections (like the Muji pen). Be careful with non-metal pens. Heat and plastics/rubbers don't go together well at all. Never try this (unless you really know what you're doing) with an Ebonite (hard rubber) pen or a pen with an Ebonite feed.

 

I attach a .txt file with some links to pen tuning videos by SBRE Brown. I attach a text file with the links because dumping a bunch of YouTube links in this post would be a mess.

Pen Tweaking Videos by Steven (SBRE) Brown.txtFetching info...

Edited November 8, 2014 by Drone