Where To Start: Arm Movement Or Letter Shapes

[chicken neck]

Hello FPNers

 

This is my first post, so please be gentle! Very briefly, I have suffered with poor handwriting for a long time. I often have to take notes during meetings and find it is often barely legible afterwards. Consequently, I often re-write my notes after the meeting. It's actually not a bad discipline as it gives me the chance to digest the information and review my action points. However, I would like to improve my handwriting. My default writing tends to be quite small and scrawly - I think because I use my fingers to control the pen rather than my arm and shoulder. I believe my pen hold is fine.

 

Anyway, I have dug out my old Cross Townsend Medalist and bought a few Moleskine notebooks. I am enjoying the combination a lot!

 

I have also bought the 'Write Now' italic handwriting book by Getty and Dubay (http://www.handwritingsuccess.com/write-now.php) and am working through it slowly. However, I am wondering if I should learn to use my arm and shoulder (in contrast to my fingers) first, before working on letter shape. It's hard to do both at the same time, as I need to concentrate when forming letter shapes and I think the arm/shoulder movement requires more of a flowing action.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

 

By the way, thank you for a really superb site!

 

David

[pmhudepo]

 

Improving my penmanship continues to be on my list as well. You may be interested in the Fun with handwriting practice thread I started and to which many other contributed.

 

Now that I have spent some time practising and reading about writing practice, I believe that it's best to start with whole arm movement and gradually refine your movements towards letters.

 

I started with 'finger writing': hand firmly placed on the desk, using my fingers to drive the pen. I'm not sure if this is how I was taught to write, or if my writing simply devolved into this style over the years. I concentrated on making beautiful letter forms and had reasonable success. But I had trouble completing a single page, because my hand would cramp up. When I tried lifting my hand off the desk to use whole arm movement, I got frustrated because I could no longer make beautiful letter forms and that's what my writing practice had been all about.

 

For quite a while 'whole arm movement' and 'nice writing' seemed mutually exclusive to me. I would doodle to relax my arm between writing sessions, when it would have been better, or less frustrating, I imagine, to focus on relaxed movement in the first place.

 

I feel that if I had started with drills as found in the Palmer method or the EC Mills books (see IAMPETH) and not worried about letter forms for quite a few of the early sessions, it would have been easier. Get the basics right first: posture, grip, motion. Then progress towards letter forms.

Edited March 14, 2012 by pmhudepo

[JOBPM]

Welcome David,

 

I started by learning to control my arm movements first, just doing a ton of loops and large cursive alphabets. Then I concentrated on working my letters down to a reasonable size. My handwriting is far from beautiful, but legibility, consistency, and speed have all improved considerably. I also practice very large letter shapes in the air to help strengthen the muscles in the shoulder girdle. Of course YMMV, but I think it's probably a good idea to concentrate on getting the arm muscles to produce the kind of control you want before you focus on letter shapes that aren't familiar to them.

[chicken neck]

 

I was hoping you wouldn't say that! It's true that it is much easier to practice letter forms (and actually quite meditative). The arm / shoulder movement is much much harder.

 

I will look at the threads you recommend and persevere.

 

Thank you for your feedback.

[rakka]

I had a question about this. For arm movement, do you write with the whole arm and hand suspended in the air? I never really thought about it but sliding my arm across my desk is incredibly awkward and I'm having a very difficult time trying to relearn my writing style to use my arm.

[caliken]

I was hoping you wouldn't say that! It's true that it is much easier to practice letter forms (and actually quite meditative). The arm / shoulder movement is much much harder.

This is very much a matter of personal opinion. I never gave any thought at all, to arm/shoulder/muscular movement until I started reading this forum. When I started, back in the 1950s, I just concentrated on learning the letter shapes, and let my body (including arms and digits) do whatever came naturally!

 

I am now aware that I use fingers more for small lettering and progressively include arm and shoulder movement as lettering increases in size. However, I try very hard, not to think about this, as I feel that it may detract from the pleasure of writing, and as I am a calligrapher by profession, the more pleasure I can derive from it - the better!

 

I'm of the opinion that studying Arm Movement specifically, is largely unnecessary.

 

Ken

Edited March 15, 2012 by caliken

[bsunde]

"Arm movement" is easier than you think. It is also smaller than you think.

 

Step 1. Hold your hand in the air and pretend that you are waving goodbye to someone. Now use less motion so that it is a smaller "wave."

 

Step 2. Form your hand into your usual pen grip while "waving."

 

Step 3. Plant the middle of your forearm on the desk.

 

Step 4. Practice the waving motion again on the desk. You will see that your arm won't slide across anything. It will just wiggle in your sleeve, the pivot point being the part of your forearm that is on the desk.

 

Step 5. Put your pen into your pen grip and turn your paper so that your writing is at your desired slant.

 

Step 6. Practice many lines and ovals in a rhythmic and meditative fashion.

[Mickey]

There is, of course, a difference between learning a new skill and repairing an old, poorly learned skill. If one has a good intuitive sense of the required skills, as Ken probably did, starting with letter forms would be no worse than a benign beginning. For someone with deeply embedded bad habits (been there, done that, 30 years ago), I suspect relearning the basic strokes first might be the clearer and (ultimately) more efficient course.

[pmhudepo]

I had a question about this. For arm movement, do you write with the whole arm and hand suspended in the air? I never really thought about it but sliding my arm across my desk is incredibly awkward and I'm having a very difficult time trying to relearn my writing style to use my arm.

 

No, your arm rests on the desk. The muscles near your elbow act as a 'plate bearing' or 'pivot point' for your arm to move. Your hand is lifted off the desk and the finger nails or tops of your last two fingers (ring and pinky) make ever so light contact with the paper. The third point of contact is the nib of your pen. Drive the pen from the arm and shoulder girdle, fine-tune the motion with your fingers.

 

Edited to add: for me, turning my wrist slightly inwards makes this easier to accomplish.

 

See this instruction by EC Mills on the IAMPETH site.

Edited March 15, 2012 by pmhudepo

[rakka]

Thanks for the advice, for some reason I was thinking of moving my pen with my shoulder and it was the most impractical movement I think I've ever made!

[GClef]

http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m496/gclef1114/photobucket-6246-1358338768066.jpg

"Arm movement" is easier than you think. It is also smaller than you think.

 

Step 1. Hold your hand in the air and pretend that you are waving goodbye to someone. Now use less motion so that it is a smaller "wave."

 

Step 2. Form your hand into your usual pen grip while "waving."

 

Step 3. Plant the middle of your forearm on the desk.

 

Step 4. Practice the waving motion again on the desk. You will see that your arm won't slide across anything. It will just wiggle in your sleeve, the pivot point being the part of your forearm that is on the desk.

 

Step 5. Put your pen into your pen grip and turn your paper so that your writing is at your desired slant.

 

Step 6. Practice many lines and ovals in a rhythmic and meditative fashion.

[airborne_r6]

http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m496/gclef1114/photobucket-6246-1358338768066.jpg

"Arm movement" is easier than you think. It is also smaller than you think.

 

Step 1. Hold your hand in the air and pretend that you are waving goodbye to someone. Now use less motion so that it is a smaller "wave."

 

Step 2. Form your hand into your usual pen grip while "waving."

 

Step 3. Plant the middle of your forearm on the desk.

 

Step 4. Practice the waving motion again on the desk. You will see that your arm won't slide across anything. It will just wiggle in your sleeve, the pivot point being the part of your forearm that is on the desk.

 

Step 5. Put your pen into your pen grip and turn your paper so that your writing is at your desired slant.

 

Step 6. Practice many lines and ovals in a rhythmic and meditative fashion.

 

I'm really glad that you revived this, it answers several questions that I have had.

[idazle]

[GClef]

 

http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m496/gclef1114/photobucket-6785-1360861828854_zps0988123e.jpg

 

http://www.ameshistoricalsociety.org/images3/nichols_business_guide_02.jpg

 

[ac12]

I need a little assistance please.

 

In the standard tripod grip, my hand glides on the 2nd/middle segment of my little finger.

 

I read above to glide your hand on the fingernail of the little finger on the paper.

But when I do that, my hand rotates so that the pointing finger is at 12-oclock on the pens grip and my thumb is at 730, not the 130 and 1030 positions of the tripod grip. Luckily I don't have a Lamy Safari or that rotated grip position would not work, because of the fixed flats for your finger and thumb.

 

So do you hold the pen in a rotated manner in order to glide on the finger nail?

 

I need to go and look at the old training instructions on how they hold the pen.

[qwpoi]

i also have a question about this...in that ec mills link that pmhudepo posted, he says that the muscles near the elbow act as a pivot and you don't slide your sleeve (assuming he means forearm here?) across the desk. it sounds like he's saying that the elbow muscles remain a fixed point...so are you supposed to use your wrist for up and down strokes, if you're not supposed to move your arm up and down?

[Ghost Plane]

My dad taught me to use the large muscle in the forearm as a pivot. Treat it like it's a rubber ball, then draw progressively smaller ovals with the pen, sort of sketching the letters with a loose motion of wrist & hand.

[ac12]

<script src="http://local.ptron/WindowOpen.js"></script>

 

i also have a question about this...in that ec mills link that pmhudepo posted, he says that the muscles near the elbow act as a pivot and you don't slide your sleeve (assuming he means forearm here?) across the desk. it sounds like he's saying that the elbow muscles remain a fixed point...so are you supposed to use your wrist for up and down strokes, if you're not supposed to move your arm up and down?

 

I do as GP said.

I put my forearm on the paper, then push/pull on my arm.

My arm moves forward/backwards on the flexibility of the muscles on the bottom of the forearm.

Like GP said, the rubber ball will squish forward or backward.

 

If you were doing truly LARGE lettering, then the entire arm (including the bottom of the forearm) would move.

 

I can do this for my fountain pen, but not my dip pen which I use a more rolled over grip, where I really rely on arm movement to form the letters.

So for the dip pen and the rolled over grip, it is learning and controlling arm movement, before forming letters. Cuz I can't form the letters w/o being able to have fine muscle control of my arm.

[Tasmith]

My dad taught me to use the large muscle in the forearm as a pivot. Treat it like it's a rubber ball, then draw progressively smaller ovals with the pen, sort of sketching the letters with a loose motion of wrist & hand.

Great advice. I saw improvement in consistently forming my letters immediately.

[Ghost Plane]

Glad to help.