Vintage (celluloid) 144, 146 vs their modern versions?

[RevAaron]

Hi! I've a few vintage MBs, including a celluloid 146 M and 144 OB. I've been wondering about size differences between the 1950s celluloid Meisterstruecken and the modern ones.

 

Folks who have both a 1950s 144 and a modern 144 and/or a 1950s 146 and a modern 146: would you be willing to take a few side by side photos to show general size differences?

 

I ask because the modern MB 144 always looks so skinny, at least in the photos I see online, and it seems to be thought of as a small pen, as something for a day planner. My celluloid 144 is definitely not a "lady's pen," but rather a standard size- it's the exact same size as a M200/M400. The modern one looks more like it's as thick as a Reform 1745.

 

Not to get all OCD, but at work I've a digital caliper. I put in the measurements below in case someone doesn't have one of modern and vintage to compare photo-wise.

 

As an aside, the celluloid 146 is, for me, the perfect pen- handily beats any modern MB. Heck, it beats any modern pen, period! So far as I'm concerned at least. That said, I'd also recommend the 1950s 144 to folks who want a first-class vintage MB but don't want to pay the premium for a 146 or 149- vintage 144s on eBay go typically sell for $100-200 less than a 146 w/ the same nib.

 

Aaron

 

1950s MB 144 (mm)

mid-barrel diameter 12, section diameter 9.6

length to end of nib 120, length to end of barrel 97

capped 130, posted 153

 

1950s Pelikan 400NN (mm)

mid-barrel diameter 11.6, section diameter 9.5

length to end of nib 123, length to end of barrel 103

capped 131, posted 145

 

1950s MB 146 (mm)

mid-barrel diameter 12.5, section diameter 11

length to end of nib 110, length to end of barrel 97

capped 134, posted 160

 

 

[talkinghead]

Hey Rev..

 

I've been playing lately with my camera and a homemade light tent and "Pen portraits"...actually Niksch and I are trying to out do each other..eh Niksch

 

Anyway I have the models you're looking for and will take side by side pics this weekend for ya..

 

Rick

 

 

[RevAaron]

Anyway I have the models you're looking for and will take side by side pics this weekend for ya..

 

Awesome! Can't wait to see.

[talkinghead]

Awesome! Can't wait to see.

 

Ok Rev..got home and went to work...married, two kids..what else am I gonna do on a freezing Friday night!!

 

50's celluloid 146G>>80's 146>>50's celluloid 144G>>80's 144 Classique

 

The 146's..

 

The 146's

 

The 146's

 

The 144's

 

The 144's

 

The 144's(sorry about the "tacky" tac..the pens kept rolling..)

 

All together with a 60's #149 for comparison

 

 

Hope that helps

 

Rick

 

 

[niksch]

what else am I gonna do on a freezing Friday night!!

 

 

I can think of about two things. One, you cannot say in Ohio, and the other...well, you figure it out.

 

Eric

[talkinghead]

what else am I gonna do on a freezing Friday night!!

 

 

I can think of about two things. One, you cannot say in Ohio, and the other...well, you figure it out.

 

Eric

 

 

Ahh the jokster...I think that long drive made your head fuzzy :ltcapd:

 

Check the time stamp Col.....the night was young!!

 

Oh...watch your email today..that "surprise" pen arrived yesterday..I'll send the pics along with the story.

 

Rick

[RevAaron]

Thanks Rick! :clap1:

 

Ah, so the modern 144 is a lot skinnier! In some ways, it's good- I think it has to do with why you can get a celluloid 144 for less than a 146, and even a 142, 244, or 246. The imprint of the modern 144 must be that strong.

[MicheleB]

Outstanding comparison and very helpful for me. Thanks.

[niksch]

Hey Rick, That 146 in the center of the last photo...it's ink window is long. Is it an early model 146?

 

Eric

 

 

[talkinghead]

Hey Rick, That 146 in the center of the last photo...it's ink window is long. Is it an early model 146?

 

Eric

 

Yeah 1949-1950 I've been told..146G with the more rare long ink view...I tried to send you pictures of it months ago when I first got it..but you couldn't open the jpegs..Probably my most prized pen..until I get a 13x or a 1950's 149 ...

 

Rick

[RevAaron]

What other ink window lengths were there? That is, most of the 50s 146Gs and 146s I've seen have their ink windows covered up when capped. I just got my first 146, and there are a few mm left of ink window past the end of the cap- not an actual long ink window, but long enough that you can tell if you're out of ink when the cap is off.

 

Is that useful in dating the pen?

 

Aaron

 

 

[niksch]

Is that useful in dating the pen?

 

 

Yes it is. The ink view, or ink window, changed in 1953 or so to reflect the pen that you have wiht the shorter ink window.

 

Eric

[talkinghead]

Sorry people, needed to delete the pictures as my attachments have met their max.

 

The photo's can be seen here at Picasaweb:

 

http://picasaweb.google.com/rvobmd/Compare...feat=directlink

 

Rick

[RevAaron]

Thanks Rick!

[FredRydr]

And I thought I'd resolved not to look for one of those. <sigh>

 

Fred

[georges zaslavsky]

They are very nice pens but too expensive and too delicate for my own liking. I prefer the 60's-70's and mid80's plastic models, less problematic to repair in case of trouble and spare parts have a better availability.

[niksch]

They are very nice pens but too expensive and too delicate for my own liking. I prefer the 60's-70's and mid80's plastic models, less problematic to repair in case of trouble and spare parts have a better availability.

Actually, I find the 1950s 14x celluloid to be more durable and better writing that the current models. And I don't know that they are any harder to repair. The most likely part that would need to be repaired or replaced on a vintage 14s pen is the cork piston seal. While not as easy to swap out as a modern elastomeric seal, cork seals are not diffucult to fashion and fit to the barrel. It does take to time to properly do it, but that is part of the fun...at least for me.

[Darius]

I have very little knowledge about vintage MB. I have a question about the seals; would the current elastic seal fit in an equivalent vintage model instead of a cork seal? Because, if I am not mistaken, the cork seals need replacing more often. Am I right?

[niksch]

I have very little knowledge about vintage MB. I have a question about the seals; would the current elastic seal fit in an equivalent vintage model instead of a cork seal? Because, if I am not mistaken, the cork seals need replacing more often. Am I right?

 

Darius;

Cork seals need to be replaced if they dry out and shrink. This happens if they are not used frequently, or if they are not stored with a small amount of water in the barrel. I've got a couple of pens that I only recently changed the cork seal from what was probably the original because of the dry climate where I live. The modern elastomeric seals typically do not fit into celluloid 146 barrels because of celluloid shrinkage, and celluloid shrinkage, not matter how small, is what requires cork seals to be hand fashioned for each barrel since they will all be a little different in size.

 

I'd say that elastomeric seals are more durable or longer lasting than cork seals. I've been trying to find a material (for badrsj) and me that might replace cork as an alternative for vintage 14x pens, but have been unsuccessful so far.

 

Eric

[Darius]

I have very little knowledge about vintage MB. I have a question about the seals; would the current elastic seal fit in an equivalent vintage model instead of a cork seal? Because, if I am not mistaken, the cork seals need replacing more often. Am I right?

 

Darius;

Cork seals need to be replaced if they dry out and shrink. This happens if they are not used frequently, or if they are not stored with a small amount of water in the barrel. I've got a couple of pens that I only recently changed the cork seal from what was probably the original because of the dry climate where I live. The modern elastomeric seals typically do not fit into celluloid 146 barrels because of celluloid shrinkage, and celluloid shrinkage, not matter how small, is what requires cork seals to be hand fashioned for each barrel since they will all be a little different in size.

 

I'd say that elastomeric seals are more durable or longer lasting than cork seals. I've been trying to find a material (for badrsj) and me that might replace cork as an alternative for vintage 14x pens, but have been unsuccessful so far.

 

Eric

Thanks for the information Eric. This issue about the cork seal is what's keeping me away from the vintage pens. But if storing the pen with water in the barrel would solve or reduce the problem, I think I would venture in that territory.