Moonman M2 Successor Coming Soon?

[JollyCynic]

  On 5/18/2019 at 11:23 AM, mke said:

As long as I can't determine the color of the grip section, I will not buy it. The description says the color of the section depends on the side of the section, but I do not think that to be all. There seem to be at least three differently colored sections.

 

From some of the pictures I saw, it looks like it's a marbled blue and red effect, with one half being blue, and one half being red, and the two mixing a bit where they meet.

 

I agree with this sentiment, though, as well as Penzel's, that for $25, I'd like to see one "in the wild" to be sure before spending money on it.

[Antenociticus]

Hmm. One of the great things about the M2 is the bang for the buck. They're simple and functional and look cool and do their job. I have a bunch of them for different purposes.

 

$30 seems a bit much for an update with a huge step, that doesn't post, and has a rather weird-looking non-demonstrator section. I'll probably get one if the price dips somewhat.

Edited May 18, 2019 by Antenociticus

[stephenchin]

Yes, this is a direct copy of Shawn Newton's Shinobi, which was designed by one of his customers. https://newtonpens.com/shinobi-clear-and-vintage-celluloids-small/

 

The Shinobi is made in several sizes, and many materials (disclosure, Shawn built one for me). It can cost upwards of $300 depending on your choices.

 

However, the Shinobi is machined and polished by hand from acrylic or ebonite rod stock--so the strength and thickness is considerably greater than injection molded polycarbonate, which I believe my M2 is.

 

At 10mm diameter this new Moonman is akin to the very smallest Shinobi made--two sizes down from the Small size. And considerably smaller than the M2, which is almost 14mm at the widest point of the barrel (and not the hugest pen itself). 10mm is the size of those small Sheaffer $1 student cartridge pens from the 60's--an extremely small pen to use unposted. I think the Shinobi works much, much better in oversize models.

 

While a popular design--and every elegant--I should also warn that the Shinobi flat edge is not quite as effective a roll-stop as a clip would be--especially in a smaller size. In a pen of 10mm, I'm not sure that the flat edge would do much.

If someone orders this, can you please post whether the diameter spec of 10mm is correct?

 

Also--Moonman claims this is their nib--but note that crescent breather hole. Are they rebranding nibs from the Chinese maker of new Conklin nibs? I can't say I've been impressed by the new Conklin steel nibs. The great nibs on the M2 were a breakthrough; let's hope it wasn't a fluke for Moonman.

Edited May 18, 2019 by stephenchin

[Mech-for-i]

The Mfr specified its PMMA turned, not molded, I do agree its very much a copy of the Shinobi, and just like the original Shinobi this really do not interest me , not one for demonstrator and the straight cylinder, well its a style used by all pen Mfr since what pre 1900 and even the flat surface its a feature already seen then ( first seen in dip pen ) so I hardly called that any styling innovation; the Shinobi though do come in variety of material / color option. Personally I am more interested in how Moonman and others can take advantage of the new No.6 nib unit now that they have one , it opens up possibilities really

Edited May 18, 2019 by Mech-for-i

[stephenchin]

The mfr can say it is turned, but I'm a bit sceptical: machining PMMA requires considerable polishing to remove the machining marks. Even high-end makers like Pelikan use moulding rather than machining for their high end, limited edition clear transparent demonstrators. Can the miracle of Chinese manufacuring really machine and polish PMMA at the M2 price point, including the internal threading and the three-piece nib assembly? That would be truly amazing.

 

 

Also, can you confirm that this is it really only 10mm in barrel diameter? with a #6 nib?

 

and who makes the feed? I assume the great flow of the M2 was due to the German-made feed. I hope they continue to use the same maker.

Edited May 19, 2019 by stephenchin

[sdbruder]

I think the bigger question here is who is https://www.suiyipen.com ?

 

They design pens? They make them for other brands?

 

I’ve seen references of Moonman, PenBBS and Namisu.

[IndigoBOB]

  On 5/18/2019 at 6:02 PM, stephenchin said:

Yes, this is a direct copy of Shawn Newton's Shinobi, which was designed by one of his customers. https://newtonpens.com/shinobi-clear-and-vintage-celluloids-small/

 

 

 

Thank makes sense, lol.

[Mech-for-i]

  On 5/19/2019 at 12:17 AM, stephenchin said:

The mfr can say it is turned, but I'm a bit sceptical: machining PMMA requires considerable polishing to remove the machining marks. Even high-end makers like Pelikan use moulding rather than machining for their high end, limited edition clear transparent demonstrators. Can the miracle of Chinese manufacuring really machine and polish PMMA at the M2 price point, including the internal threading and the three-piece nib assembly? That would be truly amazing.

 

 

Also, can you confirm that this is it really only 10mm in barrel diameter? with a #6 nib?

 

and who makes the feed? I assume the great flow of the M2 was due to the German-made feed. I hope they continue to use the same maker.

 

These days its only tedious, not really difficult work and the machine can do almost entire polishing job ( mostly involve periodic manual checking ) and PMMA used in household item is the key in industrial implementation of the material , from the look of it it do look like more than 10mm so I go back and check, and in fact the Mfr spec the section is 10mm , not the pen , the section it seems is cast and then turned parts of art acrylic mix of Purple and Red so it might come out red or purple or a mix swirl of such and anything in between .. and that step up to the barrel look to me a concern ; actually from the photo shown I can see very apparent turning and polishing mark still on the barrel particularly the inside, no idea with the feed, but in any case I have had no real issue with their own ( and pretty much also other Chinese ) feed so I am not too concern about that, though in general Chinese feed tend to sway towards constrained and controlled flow where German Feed tend to sway towards the smooth and wet

[drathbun]

Bobby now has this new Moonman C1 on his Etsy store site for $20.98 US. It comes with either the red or purple sections (you can't choose - he will send it randomly) and a converter. But it is an eyedropper fountain pen. It is hard to tell, but it looks like a #6 size nib. I'm getting one!

 

Moonman C1 on Etsy

 

EDIT: I got one!

Edited May 19, 2019 by drathbun

[penzel_washinkton]

Now that is a far much better deal and makes it easier to stimulate any itchy trigger-fingers!

[Helen350]

I took a serious look at the new Moonman C1, and the step down appears rather sharp. Will await a FPN review before I make that decision.

[stephenchin]

On Bobby's Etsy listing, diameter is now listed as 14.7mm. Office-Product on Ebay has revised their listing to 14mm after my query.

Edited May 20, 2019 by stephenchin

[Newton Pens]

Does this mean I've made it? That they love me? They really love me??

 

Yeah looks like the Shinobi with the flat on the side. There's a company in India copying the Prospector I make, too.
Oh well. Flattery and all that.

 

It's not just me though - Pen BBS copied one of Ken Cavers pens with the taper in and out barrel shape. (the left 3)

 

And Ken's pen before Pen BBS was a thing -

 

 

I don't mind it too much though. I don't think they're going to put me out of business. At least I hope not.

 

[Mech-for-i]

I would not disagree, but then I would also say that classic shape is very much Dip Pen first ... I would term it that they copy the design, design is specific, and styling is too generalized a term and in any case these style(s) are pretty much generic too

Edited May 22, 2019 by Mech-for-i

[stephenchin]

come on--really? Generic styles?

 

these are direct rip-offs.

 

The Shinobi is very distinctive: cylindrical but with one flat facet, clear acrylic, flat ends, eyedropper, section in a marbled, rich contrasting resin, flush fit barrel with large step down, non-posting design.

 

I think that's pretty specific. Nobody looking at the new Moonman can doubt where the design came from. It's not a generic or a classic design: it's unique.

 

At least Frank Underwater is honest enough to express his disappointment at the shameless stealing of other company's designs by Chinese manufacturers.

 

To be fair, truly original and innovative Chinese designs in other centuries have been shamelessly ripped off by Western factories and individuals. But let's call it for what it is.

Edited May 23, 2019 by stephenchin

[Mech-for-i]

  On 5/23/2019 at 7:25 AM, stephenchin said:

come on--really? Generic styles?

 

these are direct rip-offs.

 

The Shinobi is very distinctive: cylindrical but with one flat facet, clear acrylic, flat ends, eyedropper, section in a marbled, rich contrasting resin, flush fit barrel with large step down, non-posting design.

 

I think that's pretty specific. Nobody looking at the new Moonman can doubt where the design came from. It's not a generic or a classic design: it's unique.

 

At least Frank Underwater is honest enough to express his disappointment at the shameless stealing of other company's designs by Chinese manufacturers.

 

To be fair, truly original and innovative Chinese designs in other centuries have been shamelessly ripped off by Western factories and individuals. But let's call it for what it is.

 

What I mean is the straight cylinder , that's the way I see it as the style part, the cut flat surface part is the specific design and I do not disagree with your assertion .. might be its my profession but my definition on style and design might be a bit more leaned towards generalized loose form as style and specific cue and features ( like profile and size ) being a design .. take many a custom made fountain pen had the same ( general ) straight cylinder ( no step down when capped ) design but they might differ a lot in size, profile ( say length to girth ratio, finale, material choice ) .. and that's why I say I consider such style generic ...

 

I did say I do think they copy the design, it is a copycat no doubt about it ; which is what you've mentioned, the very specific parts which is tailored specific to the Shinobi, the use of said material in such sizing and form and giving it the specific flat surface, specific type of filling etc ..

 

If we go back to the old days like say 1910's we can see this style of straight cylinder design is pretty common and even a single ( or a couple ) of flat surface to made the pen not roll on desk is also already there , in fact it was there even before that existing on dip pens then so again that's a style, but its not the particular or a design , its just like a fastback coupe is a common style used on automobiles , but that does not mean each and every fastback coupe had the same design

Edited May 23, 2019 by Mech-for-i

[penzel_washinkton]

All aside the topic of originality, I think the Moonman C1 might be good in the foreseeable future for people that want more #6 nibs.

Currently I see #6 nibs (from China) predominantly coming from Jinhaos and PenBBS and they don't really write a fine line.

 

Hopefully if this become a hit like the M2, more affordable #6 EF / F nibs will be coming into the market!

[Mech-for-i]

The vintage Wing Sung 2XXX series that use the larger 35mm nib ( mindful , that series had at least 4 different nib type used ) write really really EF , and the nib is somewhat a no.6 ( actually a bit larger and wider at the wing )

[penzel_washinkton]

While I'm sure there are vintage Chinese pens that release their pens in a large #6 nibs, currently the aftermarket nibs are mainly sold by Jinhaos and they are only available in M nibs. Probably I need clarify a little bit more, hopefully with the release of the C1 there will be more options to inexpensive aftermarket #6 nibs at the market.

[drathbun]

  On 5/24/2019 at 12:44 PM, penzel_washinkton said:

While I'm sure there are vintage Chinese pens that release their pens in a large #6 nibs, currently the aftermarket nibs are mainly sold by Jinhaos and they are only available in M nibs. Probably I need clarify a little bit more, hopefully with the release of the C1 there will be more options to inexpensive aftermarket #6 nibs at the market.

 

When my C1 arrives, I'll have to experiment with it to see if a Jinhao #6 will fit. I have a couple of x450's I can swap.