Sailor Nib Comparison...

[BaaadSheepie]

So,

 

After buying, begging and... begging some more (and then begging even more)... I had a selection of 5 different Sailor pens on hand at one time, and thought I'd do a bit of a comparison between their nibs. All of the samples are on a Rhodia dot notebook.

 

Here's the pens in question...

 

From left to right:

 

Pro Gear special model, Mocha brown Hemingway with a hard medium fine, 21K nib

Profit 21 with a MF Naginata togi nib

Red Koshu Inden with a hard medium fine, 14K nib

Profit 21 with a Naginata Concord Emperor nib

Nagasawa Apricot (Pro gear slim) with a hard fine 14K nib

 

 

 

 

 

When I was writing with them, I went... in a totally different order, but since I have writing samples I'll describe them in the order I wrote with them...

 

Nagasawa Apricot

 

So, the picture I took of writing sample was so fuzzy that it isn't really worth including.... oops. But overall it has a quite fine nib that isn't too wet. It's quite smooth to write with, but it does have a bit of 'feel' to it. When I first got this pen it was quite dry and didn't flow that well, but after sticking with it for a bit the flow is consistent and even. I think if I was taking notes, I'd use this pen. It also cured me, however, from wanting to spend money on a UEF or sabi-togi nib anytime soon... I think for me even an EF would be the lower limit of practicality.

 

 

 

 

Profit 21 - Naginata Togi

 

So you can see on the three lines I wrote that I gradually tipped the pen upwards so it was getting closer to be at right-angles to the paper. At a low angle, the naginata togi writes a lot like a B or BB nib and a very smooth one at that. Of course the line profile is sort of different because the nib is long, rather than broad. I can see that when writing characters that this would be an incredibly functional and artistic nib. The only issue I would perhaps have is that in a default writing position (at least my default writing position), it does write bold. I can see using this for correspondence, because you could actually take the time to play around with the line thickness and depth of colour that you can achieve. But I did find that it takes a while to get used to the nib, and it would take even longer to 'get the most' out of the writing experience with it. Still, facilitating the variation in line thickness that this nib does in everyday use on one pen is a work of genius.

 

Pro Gear Mocha

 

This is a beautiful pen, more transparent than the Earth special edition, and more transparent... and a darker brown. It's a 'Wancher' collaboration, but I think I'll stick to calling it 'Mocha' or 'Hemingway' as they do. Anyway! The nib itself is large, 2 tone and nicely decorated. When I started trying it out, it did have a few issues with evenness of flow, but that soon solved itself, and it ended up being smooth, and fairly wet. I think that the thickness of the line and feel mean that at least for me, this nib size (ie MF) is the best daily writer for me. It's not too thick, as I do write fairly small... but yet it's still quite fine. It's very relaxing and easy to control. One thing that I would say is that the nib is in comparison to the other MF nib, which is smaller and 14K. It MAY just be psychosomatic, but I do feel that this nib is slightly smoother and springier than the 14K version... it has a bit more feel as you write, and a bit less 'tooth'.

 

 

 

 

Koshu Inden

 

This is the most different feeling PEN out of this lot for sure. First off, the barrel is slightly broader. The pen is much, much heavier because the leather covering is over a metal base... so it's more similar in weight to an enamel coated barrel. The weight is also increased by the fact that I would say it's really intended to be used with the cap posted (and has a special clip mechanism to encourage you to do it)... but posted I do feel that the balance is pretty perfect, so I don't think your hand would get tired writing with this pen. And the feel of the barrel... is... warm and fluffy. It's sort of like writing with a security blanket!

 

I was worried at first about getting ink stains on the leather, and leaving grungy marks on it with sweaty hands, etc. etc. but in the end, I figured that more importantly, it's a joy to write with and it's meant to be written with... so there's no point stressing about keeping it pristine. After all, I'm not leaving it in the box, un-inked for investment purposes... (an investment... ... isn't that when the enemy surrounds your fortress and starts to lay siege to it?).

 

Anyway! The nib (ie the point of the comparison...) is a great daily writer for me at the size I write at. It does have a bit more tooth than the larger 21K version on the Mocha Pro Gear... so choosing between the two is largely a matter of personal preference, I would think. But to be clear, both of them are wonderful nibs.

 

Profit 21 Naginata Concord Emperor

 

So, I have to admit that before I started off, I felt that this beaky looking nib was... a bit... more show than function, shall we say? Maybe a bit of a gimmick?

 

The nib itself has had low use, but it's apparently about 10 to 15 years old. I know that overfeeds have been around for a while on other pens, but given that none of the other Sailor nibs have issues with flow, is it really needed here? Doesn't it just sort of cover up the design on the nib (which is 21K but single tone, so not like the 21K on the Mocha pen)?

 

I've attached a pic of the nib itself, where I tried to take a pic through a magnifying glass, because the macro function on my camera... is not awesome.

 

 

But my first thoughts about the nib changed as I started to write with the nib. It's basically exactly the same pen as the other Profit 21 above, and it's pretty standard for a resin pen. But the nib feels totally different. First, in a regular writing position (ie beaky bit down) it's about the thinkness of a Sailor Medium nib... or a European fine. It certainly doesn't have any flow issues... it feels a bit weird because the nib is about 2 or 3 mm higher off the paper than you expect it to be? So that takes a bit of getting used to. But it's a quite usable daily writer in that position. Not butter smooth... it does have a bit of 'tooth'... but it doesn't really have any flex. Of course if it did, then it would just be pushing the nib up, rather than introducing any line variation.

 

And then you flip the pen over. Technically, it's a lot like writing with fude nib but even broader (if you choose to write with the whole thing). It's like writing with a brush... that's the nearest I can get to describing it. This isn't a 'hard' edged calligraphy nib, even if it produces a similar breadth of line. It's wet, but the ink flow is well controlled so that it's not like you're going to have issues with the ink bleeding through the paper (at least not on Rhodia or 20lb printer paper... on something super cheap then it may be an issue...). Also because of the emperor over-feed, I didn't ever experience any issue with limited flow.

 

My writing (aka printing) obviously need work, and I'm probably one of the least artistic people in the universe. Ever. But I have to say that writing with this nib makes me feel artistic. Somehow, it's soothing and expressive to use at the same time. If I didn't have a lot to say, but wanted to say it really, really nicely, I would write it with this nib.

 

I can absolutely see how Mr. Nagahara is referred to as legendary.

 

Now, to win that lottery so I can go and try all the other nibs as well!

[Barry Gabay]

Thank you, BaaadSheepie, Very comprehensive report on the various Sailor nibs. Thank you very much for adding to our knowledge. I have several Sailor nibs, but they are limited to fairly conventional ones: M, B, one NM, and one custom ground XXF by Mike Masuyama. The time & attention you took with the report is much appreciated. Thanks again for sharing & educating us. Enjoy the rest of your weekend. Best wishes, Barry

[strelnikoff]

I am planning to buy my second Sailor pen today. I had one but gave it away as a present, without having the time to write with it.

 

I am curious about non-hard fine or medium nibs - 14K or 21K. Do they have any springiness? I like writing with flexier nibs.

 

I've seen some example (on youtube) of King of Pens - normal 21K F or MF nib - it is a big nib and it has some "flex" or softness or whatever it can be called. There is some line variation with some pressure.

But KoP is not cheap in the USA, so 1911 Large would be my choice for now.

 

Any thoughts on this?

[Bluey]

I am curious about non-hard fine or medium nibs - 14K or 21K. Do they have any springiness? I like writing with flexier nibs.

 

I've seen some example (on youtube) of King of Pens - normal 21K F or MF nib - it is a big nib and it has some "flex" or softness or whatever it can be called. There is some line variation with some pressure.

But KoP is not cheap in the USA, so 1911 Large would be my choice for now.

 

No springiness whatsoever in the standard, mini, or slim, PG or 1911, 14k or 21k. The only one with any springiness at all is the KoP.

 

You can buy the KoP for typically around $500 from Japan.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Bluey

[jar]

I am planning to buy my second Sailor pen today. I had one but gave it away as a present, without having the time to write with it.

 

I am curious about non-hard fine or medium nibs - 14K or 21K. Do they have any springiness? I like writing with flexier nibs.

 

I've seen some example (on youtube) of King of Pens - normal 21K F or MF nib - it is a big nib and it has some "flex" or softness or whatever it can be called. There is some line variation with some pressure.

But KoP is not cheap in the USA, so 1911 Large would be my choice for now.

 

Any thoughts on this?

What you see on YouTube is usually called abuse. The Sailor nibs are not meant to be flexed.

[minddance]

Line variation on Sailor pens are achieved with the different nib grinds and shapes, not from flexing the nib

[strelnikoff]

Thank you all for clarifying this for me. So - it's KoP then

It's just not worth 780 plus USD or 860 plus for ebonite version. Great nib, but... age old complaint by an engineer - going that far with pen and nib - and price - and then no piston filler...

 

Then again, if the price in the USA was 500ish USD, I wouldn't complain

[Tseg]

FYI, depending on the KoP you are looking for, I've seen some lately on line from that auction site under $500. Mine is en route to me. But only an M or B nib.

[strelnikoff]

Does it comes from Japan?

[Tseg]

Does it comes from Japan?

Yes (mine). And one from Taiwan is listed out there.

Edited March 17, 2018 by Tseg

[strelnikoff]

On Saturday I have "replenished" my Sailor numbers... from 0 to 1. Again I bought 1911 Large with HM nib. Store owner was at pen show, so most of the Sailors went with him.

If there was a broad nib - I would go for that one. Medium is still fairly fine for my taste.

On Wednesday KoP is arriving too. So I'll try one first...

[strelnikoff]

And I got the Sailor KOP with M nib.

 

I still have to test it on various papers, but initially it was working great, then I've noticed some railroading... perhaps even dryness. My nib may be an issue - it seems slightly misaligned (w. respect to the feed). And I can see (I'll have to use magnifying glass later today) one time is bit higher than the other one. THis is minimal and it's not supposed to be an issue.

 

 

Have anyone ever had issues with this pen/nib - out of the box?

 

 

Thanks!

[Inkyways]

I love sailor pens and I have already 5 pens with different nibs. They are fine and medium and one pen have a Fine flex which is for me says nothing.

I don't like flex writing on FP. Recently I have ordered another 1911 standard pen with a Music Nib which interests me as it writes like a Stub nib and border .

I thought to have a try on this pen.

[BaaadSheepie]

So, I have some more nibs now, so I thought I'd add to the comparison!

 

 

14K Soft MF Emperor Nib

 

This one is on a 1990's Tortoiseshell Magellan. I actually did some 'blind' testing and the nib really is a bit more springy and feels a bit different to write with than the current hard nibs. It's more springy than a modern 21K H-MF nib for sure, but still certainly not a 'flex' nib. One thing that did strike me was that it's a pretty noisy nib to write with, but it's a nice noise. It's sort of like how companies spend 100's of hours tuning the sound that the car door makes when you shut it...

 

Also, it's a minor point, but it seems like the line this MF nib writes is a tiny bit broader than the other MF nibs that we have.

 

H - EF Nib

 

I know that everyone has their own individual taste and some people just aren't into really fine nibs. However, using the H-EF nib I was impressed by how usable it really was. Laying down such a fine line, it still wasn't scratchy, and didn't catch on the paper... although that may partially be due to the paper itself, which is really nice.

 

The H - M and H - B nibs feel pretty close to the same, just with an increasingly wide line. The H - B nib is fairly close to a European medium nib.

 

Music Nib

 

This nib was actually the biggest surprise to me. Based on other descriptions, I was expecting the Sailor Music nib to basically be a big, blobby bold nib. I don't know if they've altered the shape of their music nibs recently, but the one on the pen I have has a very 'sharp' edge to it, capable of very crisp and very narrow strokes. If anything (as I noted in the sample) I feel that it's closer in feel to a 1.1 stub italic nib. I'm sure that other people will have different impressions of it, so I wouldn't want anyone to go and get one based on my impression alone, but when I compare it to other pens I've used recently I feel it's much more similar to a TWBSI 1.1 stub, and a Reform 1.1 caligraphic nib than anything else.

 

I had intended to get just the one Music nib to sort of 'fill out the collection' but now I'm actively looking into other possibilities to get one. One of the advantages at this point is that you can get them on a wider selection of new Sailor pens than other funky nib types, so you don't have to just get a plain black pen to get one at a reasonable price. Not that I have anything against black pens! But once you have 2 black and gold full size Sailor Profit pens... it's a bit more interesting to get something in different colours or something if you want to get a different type of nib.

 

Rewinding quickly to the first nib comparison, the more I use the Naginata-togi, the more I enjoy it. Unfortunately, the more I enjoy it, the more expensive they seem to get to buy... ... .

 

Will add another post to this sometime in 2019 when the Zoom nib arrives!

[mke]

What do you actually use these specialized nibs for? Sometimes I think, people are just writing the "the fox jumps over the lazy fox" sentence with these nibs. And that's it.

[BaaadSheepie]

Well, some of the more common nibs I fill and use in rotation at work - I have about 3 or 4 pens there that get switched up as they run out of ink, etc.

 

The less common nibs and pens that would be trickier or more expensive to replace, well, they get used when I journal. Just about every night I'll dip and write with two or three pens, then flush them when I'm done. That gives me the chance to actively use more of my pen collection on a regular basis without risking them outside the house.

 

Also, for letters or greeting cards, it's a lot of fun to use the specialty nibs.

 

At least that's what I find, but that's just speaking for myself!

[BaaadSheepie]

So, to finish up the summary of nibs.

 

Here's a writing sample for a Zoom nib, and the pen in question...

 

 

 

 

So, from what I'd read, the Zoom nib is supposed to be sort of a chunky and unrefined version of the naginata-togi. I have to admit, I sort of got it because there's apparently a lot of options for having a Zoom nib custom ground to another profile, but now I have it, I don't think I'll take that option with it.

 

You can see three samples of the line variation using the nib... the thickest is in a normal writing position, and it is quite thick indeed... sort of a european B, I would say? Holding it more upright, you get the thinner line, and the finest line is actually written with the back of the nib.

 

While I don't think the naginata-togi is especially usable upside down (I find it quite scratchy, as I think I said in an earlier post in this thread) the Zoom nib writes a smooth F or MF and is very usable indeed.

 

As I've spent time writing in a journal with this pen, I've found it engaging, and very nice to introduce and emphasize different points or thoughts as I'm writing. It's become one of my daily users at home that I've had consistently inked since it arrived.

 

Is the price premium worth it for the naginata-togi? I find it a very involving nib that I have to be focused on my writing to make the most of... it's an elegant writer and it looks elegant as well. Would I recommend it to everyone? I think for a lot of people, I would recommend trying one out before you buy it.

 

The Zoom nib... I think it's easier and more fun to write with. And it looks sorta chonky, to be honest, if you can apply that to a pen nib. Elegant, it ain't. But when I'm writing I'm not always looking for that from a pen. In the end, it's 100% got a place in my collection, and it adds a different, fun dimension to my writing.

 

And it's a chunk of cash cheaper than the naginata-togi, and available on more custom Sailor pens... Again, probably not for everyone, but I'm really enjoying it.

 

(And the ink colour is pretty wild too... such an intense orange... glad I got the box set!)

 

I think that's about it for the nib summary...!

 

Let me know if you have any questions!

[inkstainedruth]

Just the type of thread I've been looking for!

What are your overall impressions between the zoom and the music nib? I'm getting my first Sailor pen (early anniversary present -- YAY!) but I can't decide which one to get. Both have plusses and minuses to them, so I'm happy to find someone who has and used both, in order to get evaluations.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth