Waterman 92 Herpetology (Lizards And Snakes?)

[Estragon]

I was thinking about letting go of my 1930s Waterman 92 in the pattern commonly called "lizard skin" when I stumbled across another 92 in a similar, albeit more snakelike pattern. Suffice it to say I'm now having second thoughts!

 

http://i.imgur.com/BC7KXcQ.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/0zq34P6.jpg

 

I'll have to shoot a better photo of the green pen once I've cleaned it up. But if you look closely, you can make out flashes of red running through the celluloid, giving it a distinctly venomous appearance!

 

After realizing I know next to nothing about these pens (aside from what I already know of the 92), I turned to pen forums, PCA's archive, and Google in search of answers. Yet there's scarcely any info about these variants online. From what little I was able to piece together, I gather that these were made in the vestpocket size as well (92V), that some have barrel bands and others don't, and that there's at least one more color in lizard skin (grey):

 

http://i.imgur.com/yCl7TZv.jpg

 

Can anyone tell me more about these pens? I've been given the impression they're rather scarce – especially stateside. But relatively how scarce they are is difficult to determine. Is the conventional name for the pattern of the brown (and grey) pen "lizard skin" and that of the green/red vein pen "snakeskin"? Are there any catalogued examples that correspond to this nomenclature? And do we know of any other colors made in either pattern? According to a couple posts from years ago, they were presumably manufactured abroad. This is confirmed by my brown pen, which has a "Made in Canada" barrel imprint and "England" marked on the nib (a delightfully flexible left-foot oblique!). Yet my green pen seems to tell against the assumption, having a "Made in USA" barrel imprint and typical US Ideal #2 nib.

 

Any Waterman's mavens out there who can shed more light on these?

Edited August 31, 2017 by Estragon

[Estragon]

Also, kinda interested in how you define "stumbled across".

 

Better said: 'stumbled upon', as in not hunting for one but couldn't pass it up once I happened to see it.

[gregamckinney]

I can't add any more wisdom about the background for these. However, they definitely were made in V lengths.

 

http://www.gergyor.com/images/waterman_92v_lizards_s.jpg

 

* Bought the silver pen and pencil separately. Don't know if the original matching pencil would have had two bands or not.

* Far right is missing clip, not naturally clipless.

 

Best Regards, greg

[Estragon]

Thanks for chiming in, Greg. I thought you might have a couple of these! So it appears that the V lengths were also available with or without barrel bands (perhaps a generational transition). Where were the 2 on the ends made according to the barrel imprints? Canada? USA? England?

Edited September 1, 2017 by Estragon

[gregamckinney]

Thanks for chiming in, Greg. I thought you might have a couple of these! So it appears that the V lengths were also available with or without barrel bands (perhaps a generational transition). Where were the 2 on the ends made according to the barrel imprints? Canada? USA? England?

 

Both in the USA- quite surprising to me.

 

greg

[Estragon]

 

Both in the USA- quite surprising to me.

 

greg

 

Interesting! From just our small sampling, then, one might be led to conjecture that barrel-ringed pens are Canadian manufacture, whereas those lacking barrel rings were made in the USA. Anyone seen any other examples, adverts, or books that confirm/disconfirm this?

[Diabolical_Engineer]

I haven't had the good fortune to come across the green snakeskin in Waterman guise, but it does certainly pop up on other American pens from the same time period. Conklin called that celluloid Reptilian Foliage Red Vein and offered in in both lever filling and Vacuum filler forms under their All American subbrand. I've also seen it on Canadian made Epencos and some other lower tier pens.

[Creakyknees]

The only 92 Lizard I have at the moment is of Canada manufacture.

 

http://i67.tinypic.com/250umb8.jpg

 

Back here in the U.K. Mabie Todd made some very nice Lizards and Snakes under the Swan brand name.

[Left FPN]

That's one model I must add to my display.

[Creakyknees]

For those wishing to have non brand specific theme based collection, you could do a lot worse than looking for snakes and lizards. [summit is another lizard manufacturer]

 

Then if you are into reptilian pens, why not add crocodile? I think I would be tempted add Caviar as well - the pattern is not too dissimilar to lizard!

 

http://i66.tinypic.com/20400l.jpg

 

Note - the other 92 lizard shown is also made in Canada. The non Waterman lizard is a M.T. Swan.

[Estragon]

I haven't had the good fortune to come across the green snakeskin in Waterman guise, but it does certainly pop up on other American pens from the same time period. Conklin called that celluloid Reptilian Foliage Red Vein and offered in in both lever filling and Vacuum filler forms under their All American subbrand. I've also seen it on Canadian made Epencos and some other lower tier pens.

 

An example of the vacuum filler All American, which Jim Mamoulides recently posted in another subforum:

 

http://penhero.com/Temp/ConklinAllAmerican_1280_06a.jpg

 

It is very similar at a glance. On closer scrutiny, however, the pattern is slightly different from the Waterman 92 Snakeskin, having bright green veins in addition to the red (the red is also perhaps more generous and splotchy/marbled by comparison).

 

Regardless of the source for the celluloid, it appears the 3 band(Canada)—1 band(USA) hypothesis for the manufacture/assembly of the Waterman 92 is being increasingly confirmed by the replies in this thread.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Estragon

[christof]

Recently I was able to catch this nice Waterman's #92:

 

 

Does anybody know what is the (Waterman's-) correct term for this pattern and color?

 

Thanks in advance.

Christof

[Left FPN]

That is nice and well photographed.

 

I have seen them called Lizard, Brown Lizard and Snake Skin.

[christof]

Thank you Force.

[christof]

Here's another recent #92 find:

 

 

Both, pen and nib were made in U.S.A.

 

And here, an older picture of a 92V:

 

 

The only information the Waterman's book does provide about these models is that they were made in early 1930's.

 

There is also a variant of the #92 with rivet clip:

 

 

...but not in lizard pattern.

 

C.

Edited December 22, 2017 by christof