Handwriting Grip/posture

[Wolfkrieg]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post -- glad to be here.
I somehow stumbled into the fountain pen obsession around 3-4 months ago when searching for a new journal and pen to write in it with. Now I own around 7 fountain pens and very much enjoy writing with them. I've been actively practicing my handwriting and trying to improve on a daily basis.

My question is this:

On a day to day basis when most of you are writing, whether for work or at home, are you using the proper handwriting grip that is outlined in PR. Spencers' system of practical penmanship, and various other books, or are you using the more common ( anchor on hand and write with fingers ) grip.

I want to be able to write decent cursive at a relatively quick pace for work and journalling, and I understand that you can achieve more range of motion and therefore add more flare to your writing when using the shoulder ect, but does everyone do this?

I've started the Spencerian guidebooks and am wondering if I should be starting from scratch and learning the described new posture/grip, or use my regular grip and just continue practicing the letters and characters.

Thanks for any and all feedback!

Matt

[ac12]

IMHO, people will have at least 3 different styles/hands.

#1 fast cursive, for note taking, where content is more important than how it looks.

#2 nice cursive, for journaling or other writing where you can take your time writing

#3 print, for those documents and times when instructed to print.

 

I use a blend of finger, hand and arm writing; mostly arm writing, with a small percentage of hand writing and an even smaller percentage of finger writing. I used to be a finger writer, and converted about 3 years ago to arm writing. And yes arm writing does increase the range of movement that your pen has. The choice to arm write or finger write is yours to make.

 

On the grip, you need to be careful of what you are reading.

 

However posture is IMPORTANT, so pay attention to that.

Also important is the seat to writing/desk surface distance. This distance is not universal, as it is highly dependent on your body. You need to be high enough to give your arm freedom to move. If your seat is too low, it is hard to move your arm freely.

 

gud luk

- The grip in the old docs are meant to use a straight dip pen holder, where the axis of the nib is in line with the down-stroke.

- Rather than a straight dip pen holder, I use an oblique dip pen holder. This allows me to use my standard 'tripod grip' with my dip pens, and have the correct nib to down-stroke alignment.

- If you are using a fountain pen with a standard ball tip and not doing flex writing, then the tripod grip is IMHO a better grip to use.

- If you are using a fountain pen with a flex nib, then you should be following the old grip, as a fountain pen is very much like a straight dip pen holder.

 

I do not know what grip or pen you are using, so I cannot make any recommendation on keeping or changing.

 

But, since you are overhauling, if you want to change your grip, do it now.

[Wolfkrieg]

Thanks for the feedback ac12 -- it is very much appreciated and utilized.
The pens I use most often are Lamy 2000/TWSBI 580AL/Karas Kustom Ink -- as well as a few other lamy and pilot pens.
As far as my grip -- i've attached an image for your reference. This is the "worst case scenario" grip that I use when really trying to
accurately write letters carefully. It's definitely too tight and I try to catch myself and relax, but still end up writing this way 75% of the time.http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o707/Wolfkrieg90/Handwriting%20Grip_zpsjvpfdorf.jpg

Any other tips / advice on how my proper hand grip/form should be adjusted are greatly appreciated. The only illustration that i've seen is from the Spencerian Theory book.

Thanks!
Matt

[ac12]

Try this

1. Hold your hand out in front of you
2. Close your fingers and thumb together, but do NOT bend the fingers/thumb. What we are after is to see how the thumb and fingers meet without tension. In my case, my thumb meet the index/pointing finger at the 1st joint.
3. Slide a pen into your hand as in #2. You may have to adjust the fingers slightly.
4. Grip the pen LIGHTLY. You should be able to easily pull the pen out of your hand.

This is basically how I hold my pens.

 

Try backing off from the front of the pen.

I hold my pen with my fingers about 3.5cm from the tip of the nib, and my thumb about 5cm back.

 

See attached pix.

 

If you write with your fingers, that tends to cause you to grip the pen TIGHT. Though, if you practice, you can finger write with my light grip.

I generally write with my arm, so a light grip is not a problem.

 

Because this grip is further from the tip of the nib and is not as tight as your present grip, you do need to practice this grip, until you have control of the pen.

[Inky.Fingers]

How do you practice writing with such grip?

 

May I interject to first warm up with some form of exercise to get used to writing with the new grip. Light and delicate before doing any writing exercise.

 

This is to train your hand to have new muscle memory. Don't write before exercising , warm up first.

 

 

Edited April 1, 2017 by _InkyFingers

[Rednaxela]

Consider switching from Spencerian to Business Penmanship. Books on the latter are IMO much more technique oriented, plus the absence of shading makes it suitable for a wider range of writing implements.

 

On your original question, I fingerwrite at work, as arm writing requires a certain desk/paper setup that is often not in place. At home I usually arm write. When I practise I always do.

[Wolfkrieg]

Rednaxela -- I've just purchased the "American Cursive Handwriting" book, and will start practicing with this book after I finish the Spencerian Guidebooks. What would you recommend as the best resource/book for Business Handwriting?

Essentially i'd like to know the most efficient grip for handwriting for long periods of time, not necessarily the best grip for embellished or fancy handwriting.

[ac12]

A LIGHT grip, and writing with your arm.

• The LIGHT grip prevents you from getting a hand cramp from a TIGHT grip.
• Arm writing uses the larger arm muscles, which have more endurance than the smaller finger muscles.

I've written up to 3 hours, with short breaks, with a light grip and arm writing, and my hand and arm felt just fine afterwards.

In college with a TIGHT grip, I got a hand cramp after only 20 minutes. And after than I was constantly shaking my hand to keep the cramp from getting worse.

[NinthSphere]

+1 what ac12 says. We have essentially the same grip, although I tend to write with some combination of finger, wrist, & arm movement, depending on the pen & I would probably be holding a hair higher up, also depending on the pen.

[Rednaxela]

What would you recommend as the best resource/book for Business Handwriting?

I practise from a couple.

 

E.C. Mills - Modern Business Penmanship

C.P. Zaner - The Arm Movement Method of Rapid Writing

H.P. Behrensmeyer - Lessons in Practical Penmanship

F.W. Tamblyn - Home Instructor in Penmanship

 

Magazines:

The Penman's Art Journal

The Business Educator

 

All except Tamblyn can be found on archive.org.

 

Essentially i'd like to know the most efficient grip for handwriting for long periods of time, not necessarily the best grip for embellished or fancy handwriting.

Note that Business Penmanship is an evolution of Spencerian, trying to offer a simplified, more efficient, yet elegant alternative for the business person, who often wrote for multiple hours a day, every day. The technique developed for this is very much targeted at efficiency and stamina. However it covers more than only the grip, it's also about posture, paper position, and most importantly: movement.

 

For what it's worth, there's still a video somewhere on Vimeo showing me writing and holding my pen pretty much like you. That was February last year. Since then I've gone from Spencerian via Ornamental Penmanship into Business Penmanship, in a quest for improving my handwriting. I'm currently halfway the BP capitals, and with hindsight I am convinced I should have started with this script. I still have a long way to go, but so far I've come to understand that movement is what you should focus on, not letter forms. And there is no better place to learn that than with Business Penmanship. Hence the suggestion.

 

I don't know the American Cursive Handwriting book very well, sorry. But I'm sure it will be a very interesting read, coming from Michael Sull.

 

Hope this helps.

[Wolfkrieg]

Thanks everyone for the feedback so far.
I've decided to slow down and focus more on developing the necessary muscle memory for writing the proper way. Even practicing just lines and circles is way less stressful on the hand/fingers compared to using my death grip as I have been. It feels very different, but i'm sure through repetition that writing with the arm will become natural soon enough.

I just hope that I am practicing the right grip and not exercising even more bad form.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Wolfkrieg

[Inky.Fingers]

Did I just win something?

[ac12]

Wolf,

 

Hang in there.

When I converted from finger writing to arm writing, it took me THREE months of daily writing before I could write with my arm, without having to constantly check that I was not regressing back to finger writing. This was the training of my arm to do something that it had never done before, writing. After that it was another THREE months to continue to work on my writing itself.

 

Try to do a 30 min drill/practice every day, 2x a day if you can. The more you practice the faster the muscle memory develops.

And when you are not practicing, but writing, try to do what you were practicing. IOW integrate your practice into your daily routine. The more you do this, the more practice you get and again muscle memory develops.

I used to sit down after dinner and WRITE in my journal/notebook. I would typically write for about 2 hours, sometimes 3. What really surprised me was that my hand and arm did not hurt, unlike in college where my hand cramped after 20 minutes. BTW, those 2 hours came from what used to be TV watching, so just making better use of my time to do something I wanted to do.

 

Remember, practice makes perfect, ONLY if the practice is perfect.

[Bookman]

I'm sure you've taken care of this, Wolfkrieg, but others might not think of it. If a pen requires a little downward pressure to get an ink line going and, worse, to sustain it, the hand will unconsciously apply whatever downward pressure is needed; so make sure the nib is adjusted in a way that the pen will lay down a solid ink line even when no downward pressure is applied at all. (My test: I set the nib on writing paper while keeping two fingers under the end of the barrel, prop the pen at a 45° angle, and, without actually gripping it, pull the pen, thus dragging the nib across the paper with only the weight of the pen applying any downward pressure.)