Writing Speed.

[ragpaper1817]

I was writing last night and my Son asked why I write slowly. I have always written slowly and methodically as that is the way I was taught to write American Cursive. I was lucky to have a teacher who thought it was important for us to learn cursive and made us practice continually. I know when in school, I would sometimes struggle to keep up taking notes but still wrote legibly. Is it really that important to work on speed when writing? My Son thinks so but I say write to make it easy for everyone to read it.

[Ted F]

I just bought a book called "F.W. Tamblyn's Home Instructor in Penmanship". It's a newly printed version but it was written before fountain pens. In it he gives the typical exercises but two things stand out. One is that you write with your hand, not your fingers, and with your arm firmly planted on the desk. The other is speed. He is very forceful about gaining speed in writing. He says that to write a straight, smooth line you need speed. If you're slow you have a wiggly line. His focus in on Business Writing which I assume requires speed of writing for your job at that time. All this was written before typewriters and computers. I'm going to try and modify the instructions and not write any where near as fast as he proposes, but the exercises are useful. He makes another point that someone who normally writes slow will not be legible when they try to write fast. I agree with you and I don't feel the need to write fast at any time.

[Notgatherox]

I don't think there is necessarily a conflict, ie you can write fast and legibly.

 

I usually write at a normal speed, not what you'll call fast. When I have to take notes, my handwriting goes a little haywire, but it's still legible.

 

 

 

~Epic

[cellmatrix]

 

The other is speed. He is very forceful about gaining speed in writing. He says that to write a straight, smooth line you need speed. If you're slow you have a wiggly line. His focus in on Business Writing which I assume requires speed of writing for your job at that time.

 

I have been practicing business writing from the book by EC Mills for the last year and I noticed much improvement recently in writing at a faster pace (less wiggly of a line), and using the arm shoulder more in this process. I think these two points are really key in getting consistent results with your business style writing.

[ragpaper1817]

Interesting,I find the faster I write, the less destinctive my lower case letters are.Maybe what I consider slow may not be slow at all.

[Randal6393]

As handwriting is very personal, so is speed in writing. One of the reasons for keeping with a pen instead of a keyboard is to contemplate your words more carefully. My work is deliberate and carefully paced. If I deviate from my practicesed speed, my writing suffers.

 

Enjoy,

[HDoug]

Different people write at greatly varying speeds but the primary "speed bump" among all is legibility. Practicing to increase speed can help. We also write for different purposes. I started reforming my handwriting by being impressed by the journals and logs of bygone eras that were so legible. Logs have to be legible, after all — else they'd be worthless —and they have to be written quickly because the writer is supposed to be engaged in the doing the stuff he's writing about, not just the writing about it. You can write a note meant for your eyes only (e.g. grocery list) with less legibility and greater speed than a letter to a prospective sweetheart... And the grocery list can include abbrevs and codes of ones own devise to increase speed. And incomplete sentences.

One thing I noticed is that when I first started working on my handwriting, I couldn't write a coherent sentence because I couldn't write fast enough to keep up with my thoughts and the last part of the sentence would evaporate before I got to the writing of it. Or so I thought. What happened after practice is that my brain seems to retain the sequence of words and thoughts much better than before. What started out as an effort to reform my handwriting has improved my thinking. Or at least, that's the way I like to see it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that practice toward a goal — in this case speed — can only help. (Duh!)

 

Doug

[Dronak]

Is it really that important to work on speed when writing? My Son thinks so but I say write to make it easy for everyone to read it.

 

IMO, it depends. I think there is a general tendency for hand writing to become less legible as the writing speed increases. So writing faster may lead to less legible writing. But if you're writing just for yourself, I think that's fine. As long as you can read it, write as fast as you like. If other people are going to be reading what you write though, legibility is more important because not everyone is going to be as familiar with your handwriting as you are. If you can write quickly and still have a result that's easily readable by others, go for it. If not, you may have to slow down a bit and take a little more time to ensure your writing will be legible to others. But writing speed may also depend on the time you have. For example, taking notes in a meeting might have to be done quickly in order to keep up with what's going on, while writing a letter or card while sitting at home might give you plenty of time for slower writing, making things easily readable for others. I think ideally you'd be able to write quickly and legibly, as Lord Epic says, but if you have to make a trade-off (and I'm guessing most of us do), do the best you can for the given situation. I hope this helps.

[ragpaper1817]

My Son and I thank you for the input.

[ac12]

My normal writing is at an easy pace.

The faster I go, the worse the handwriting gets, until it is just plain UGLY and difficult to read. That is when I've pushed past my ability to write.

The problem is I was not taught short-hand, so everything gets written in long-hand.

[richiwalt]

I am reading the Spencerian correct way to hold a fountain pen, and I am intrigued to know if speed can be obtained, as well as better consistency of the letters. This would seem to be a MAJOR undertaking as it's very unnatural.

 

Basically, I would have to re-learn to write all over again if I decide to retrain myself to hold a pen this way.

 

Currently, I "plant" my hand on the side - from the little finger's outer edge all the way to the wrist. I "draw" letters - and my handwriting looks nice - but only if I am seated, and am able to take my time - there is not a flowing line movement to my writing ... but I do have control of the letters.

 

However, I am wanting my writing to be more "natural" and fast. If I stuck this out, say from 6 months to a year, would I be faster and more natural?

 

The Spencerian book says that the nails of the third and fourth finger should be "movable sliding brace", curled underneath the palm, with the fountain pen pointed directly at your right shoulder. They also recommend tying your fingers at first until the position starts to feel more natural - it's not a natural position right now.

 

Below is a sample of my slow, controlled handwriting, after relearning more correct forms from what I grew up accustomed to ...

 

 

http://www.richimages.net/Penmanship/IMG_7031%202.JPG

 

http://www.richimages.net/Penmanship/IMG_7123.JPG

 

I am early on (three weeks or so) into relearning Spencerian (without shading for now) cursive form. But I would like to write faster. Is there a better thread to address these questions? Has anyone else stuck it out to readjust holding the pen in this manner with success ?

Edited August 5, 2015 by richiwalt

[akustyk]

I am early on (three weeks or so) into relearning Spencerian (without shading for now) cursive form. But I would like to write faster. Is there a better thread to address these questions? Has anyone else stuck it out to readjust holding the pen in this manner with success ?

 

You are doing great! I have seen several calligraphers write a Spencerian hand or a business hand, and every single one of them used a different technique, different pen angle, different paper angle, different pen/nib/holder, wrote at different speeds, yet they all had one thing in common: beautiful penmanship.

 

My advice would be to use what feels right to you. In time, your speed will increase, but ask yourself why you need to increase your speed. Is it to save time? Is it to improve the appearance of your letters? As long as you're comfortable, relaxed, speed doesn't matter as much.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that those penmanship manuals were written at the time when writing speed, much as typing speed, was valued for business reasons. One's ability to get/keep a job would depend on the speed of their writing. There's no requirement of that kind for writing as a hobby.

[richiwalt]

akustyk,

 

First off, thanks so much for the encouragement. I am having a ball (since discovering fountain pens just around a month ago) with something so simple as writing - but then again, I've always loved handwriting.

 

I'm very pleased with how well my handwriting has improved - but I guess I am wanting that elegant look incorporated into my daily use - during note taking sessions at meetings and such. I've yet to hear of anyone who has learned Spencerian in the strictest sense - and was just wondering if I set myself back 6 months - if the speed with consistence would be available. I do fight with the "planted hand" thing during longer words.

 

Regardless, I am loving Spencerian ... glad I decided to give it a go ... and have already made it much farther than I thought I could. :-)

 

Below is just a sample ... playing around with some experiments on "d" and "g" ... not sure I like it ... but, having fun nonetheless. Pilot Metropolitan Fine nib,

 

http://www.richimages.net/Penmanship/IMG_7137%202.JPG

Edited August 5, 2015 by richiwalt

[cellmatrix]

I am reading the Spencerian correct way to hold a fountain pen, and I am intrigued to know if speed can be obtained, as well as better consistency of the letters. This would seem to be a MAJOR undertaking as it's very unnatural.

 

Basically, I would have to re-learn to write all over again if I decide to retrain myself to hold a pen this way.

 

Currently, I "plant" my hand on the side - from the little finger's outer edge all the way to the wrist. I "draw" letters - and my handwriting looks nice - but only if I am seated, and am able to take my time - there is not a flowing line movement to my writing ... but I do have control of the letters.

 

However, I am wanting my writing to be more "natural" and fast. If I stuck this out, say from 6 months to a year, would I be faster and more natural?

 

The Spencerian book says that the nails of the third and fourth finger should be "movable sliding brace", curled underneath the palm, with the fountain pen pointed directly at your right shoulder. They also recommend tying your fingers at first until the position starts to feel more natural - it's not a natural position right now.

 

Below is a sample of my slow, controlled handwriting, after relearning more correct forms from what I grew up accustomed to ...

 

 

http://www.richimages.net/Penmanship/IMG_7031%202.JPG

 

http://www.richimages.net/Penmanship/IMG_7123.JPG

 

I am early on (three weeks or so) into relearning Spencerian (without shading for now) cursive form. But I would like to write faster. Is there a better thread to address these questions? Has anyone else stuck it out to readjust holding the pen in this manner with success ?

Yes, I had the same problem as you did, I firmly planted the side of my hand and wrist on the paper. Probably because thats because I originally did my fountain pen writing using a cursive italic style, sort of like Doug and Randall above, and this style does not seem to emphasize keeping the hand placement off the paper.

 

However once I started writing business cursive I became aware of the recommendations to keep the hand off the paper and use the nails of the 4th and 5th finger for support instead. At first this was difficult for me to do and it seemed unnatural. However what I did was adjust to this gradually.

 

Instead of all at once taking your whole right side of your hand and wrist off the paper, just learn to lighten the pressure a little, and put just a little more pressure on your 4th 5th fingers, and less on the hand. Then after a while use even less. At some point after that start applying all the pressure on the lower part of your 4th 5th fingers. Then start trying to place the pressure on the upper part of your 4th 5th fingers. As a final move, switch to placing the pressure on the 4th, 5th finger nails.

 

I suggest taking at least a week for each step, until it seems natural, then move on to the next step. After a couple months, you should be completely switched over. At the same time, you should try to lighten the pressure a bit, so your fingers and nails can glide over the paper surface as you apply the force to your wrist from the arm and shoulder.

 

EC Mills, who is probably the best authority of business spencerian, at least in my opinion (and I think Ken Fraser thinks so too) wrote the manual I used "modern business penmanship" and has said that if you don't keep your hand off the paper, this is going to significantly limit your progress.

 

I totally agree. Keeping your hand off the paper is really helpful for this style of writing and I think you will like it once you do it. You will find you do not need to pick up your pen off the paper so often, and even long words can be written continuously without lifting the nib.

 

Also as a benefit, when using your fingernails as support, you'll avoid getting oil from your hand on the paper and you will find less skipping of your pen towards the bottom of the page.

 

Good luck!

Edited August 5, 2015 by cellmatrix

[richiwalt]

Cellmatrix,

 

Wow! Practical ... and hopeful ! :-)

 

I kind of started doing something like that already ... I was starting to only touch the second knuckle on the fourth finger on the page and let it glide over the paper. (In fact, - my wife laughing at me all along - I took a very small sticky note and stuck it to that knuckle so that paper glides on paper. LOL)

 

I believe I will take your advice and do a gradual switch over to see if I can glide on the fingernails.

 

How well did you convert ? Still feel the least bit un-normal to you at all ? Do you have any youtube (or other) vids of you writing ? I'd love to see. Did it help your speed and consistency at all ?

Edited August 5, 2015 by richiwalt

[cellmatrix]

well its

 

How well did you convert ? Still feel the least bit un-normal to you at all ? Do you have any youtube (or other) vids of you writing ? I'd love to see. Did it help your speed and consistency at all ?

I converted fine after a couple months, and you can too. Sorry I don't have videos, but I think its best for you to just go by what feels best for you as long as you end up in the same position as on the diagrams in the business writing manuals. These manuals have exercises, like making up and down lines, figure eights, overlapping circles etc. At least that is what is contained in the beginning of the EC Mills manual. As you go thru these hand position changes first practice going thru the exercises thoroughly before writing letters. It will help you to feel more comfortable about it. I can't overemphasize going back to the exercises from time to time, they are extremely helpful.

Edited August 5, 2015 by cellmatrix

[richiwalt]

well its

 

I converted fine after a couple months, and you can too. Sorry I don't have videos, but I think its best for you to just go by what feels best for you as long as you end up in the same position as on the diagrams in the business writing manuals. These manuals have exercises, like making up and down lines, figure eights, overlapping circles etc. At least that is what is contained in the beginning of the EC Mills manual. As you go thru these hand position changes first practice going thru the exercises thoroughly before writing letters. It will help you to feel more comfortable about it. I can't overemphasize going back to the exercises from time to time, they are extremely helpful.

 

Thanks much ... you offer much hope for me, Sir. :-) Thanks so much for sharing ...

 

So, other questions: I was thinking of joining IAMPETH ... Are you a member there ? If so, do you know if there are other good resources there for this sort of thing ?

 

Right now, all I have is the Spencerian Theory book with the 5 copy books. I'm Xeroxing the copy book pages to get more and more practice so I do not have to purchase any more of them ... I think this alone is probably enough - but if there's something else helpful out there, I'd like to know.

Edited August 5, 2015 by richiwalt

[cellmatrix]

I have heard some people say the paper is not so good in those copy books, so if you xerox using good paper that would be helpful. If you want to go to using flex and full spencerian this is a good manual. Also, there is a manual by Michael Sull "Learning to write Spencerian" which is supposed to be pretty good.

 

As for me, I've only used the EC Mills Manual "Modern Business Penmanship", and found it excellent. Ken Frasier says its the best resource for learning business (monoline) spencerian. You can find it on the IAMPETH website I believe.

 

I am not a member of IAMPETH, but I suppose I should be .

[richiwalt]

 

 

As for me, I've only used the EC Mills Manual "Modern Business Penmanship", and found it excellent. Ken Frasier says its the best resource for learning business (monoline) spencerian. You can find it on the IAMPETH website I believe.

 

I am not a member of IAMPETH, but I suppose I should be .

 

Nice ... added this to my Penmanship bookmarks ... although it looks nearly the same ... just a different book - but nice to access this from a webpage. I will look up Michael Sull "Learning to write Spencerian" as well.

[Inky.Fingers]

I have heard some people say the paper is not so good in those copy books, so if you xerox using good paper that would be helpful. If you want to go to using flex and full spencerian this is a good manual. Also, there is a manual by Michael Sull "Learning to write Spencerian" which is supposed to be pretty good.

 

As for me, I've only used the EC..I should be .

 

i am into my 3 months of Spencerian...and found it still difficult to transition to the correct writing position but i found a comfortable position to write with. but... i think it is hindering me to do flourishes

 

 

as a two cents on paper...use hp 32# copy paper for your practice. you can print the writing guides from Iampeth as suggested by a good gentleman aaandrew on fpn. i think any paper above 28lbs is good for this fountain pen business.