Reverse Nib

[transcend]

For some reason, my new broad tip nib (stock, rounded) writes a very nice fine stub holding the nib (face) in reverse. That side of the tip writes a nice italic/stub print with minimal skipping, so I'd just like to confirm that writing this way does not cause damage to the point.

 

Will writing with the nib in reverse cause damage to the point?

 

Assuming pressure is minimal, that is, no flexing in reverse, would this be a fair way to turn my borderline unusable broad tip into a double nib? I only ask because the pen in question is flipping expensive.

[takkun]

Hypothetically so, but you're not working with much tipping material, and it certainly isn't finished, so it can't be a pleasant experience for extended writing. Why not consider swapping it out if possible, or sending it to a nibmeister?

[FoszFay]

Are we talking about a Pelikan? When mine was factory 'medium', it also produced a nice, fine-stubbish line when written with up-side down. It was very smooth as well, which made me send the pen in to get it to write like that all the time.

 

I doubt you would damage the nib by writing with it like you are. Maybe after a year or so of constant use (in reverse) would you possibly see it starting to wear down, but I don't think you'd be using it that much to do anything like that.

 

Tom.

[troglokev]

The only real danger in doing this it that you could bend the tines against the feed. You seem to be aware of the issue, so I'd say go ahead.

 

Several of my nibs are specifically ground to be operated on both sides.

[transcend]

Hypothetically so, but you're not working with much tipping material, and it certainly isn't finished, so it can't be a pleasant experience for extended writing. Why not consider swapping it out if possible, or sending it to a nibmeister?

yea, i don't know. maybe i'm being cheap. yea, probably that.

 

Are we talking about a Pelikan? When mine was factory 'medium', it also produced a nice, fine-stubbish line when written with up-side down. It was very smooth as well, which made me send the pen in to get it to write like that all the time.

 

I doubt you would damage the nib by writing with it like you are. Maybe after a year or so of constant use (in reverse) would you possibly see it starting to wear down, but I don't think you'd be using it that much to do anything like that.

 

Tom.

Yes, an M605. It's exactly how you described--my stock broad writes a smooth and attractive stub/italic in reverse. Slight skipping but different ink can solve that, possibly.

 

The only real danger in doing this it that you could bend the tines against the feed. You seem to be aware of the issue, so I'd say go ahead.

 

Several of my nibs are specifically ground to be operated on both sides.

I think the only issue is going to be twine alignment. But I'm skeptical there is more to this, which is why I posted.

Edited December 31, 2014 by transcend

[Ernst Bitterman]

This is something that Parker and Sheaffer both used to brag about having as a feature of their pens, and it was no more than a little extra attention to the tip-finishing. If it's feeling good and you're attending properly to keeping pressure from building, go right ahead. Someone who knows nibs can turn it into an intended function if you ask nicely enough, too.

 

The only thing I'd watch is that slight skipping-- it might be an indicator of more pressure than the point enjoys. Remember that the slit closes a little under pressure from this angle rather than opening.

[Kuhataparunks]

I can offer no reputable feedback, but I did this for the few months that I had my Lamy Safari EF with good results.

It's funny how a Lamy EF, even upside down, wrote like a Japanese F or even FM, depending upon brand.

it didn't give any problems, but I don't even have the pen anymore; I can't give much oh how it affected its writing right-side up.

[KBeezie]

I see little problem with writing on the reverse side of the nib especially if both ends are aligned for the most part and you're using no pressure at all to write (ie: if the flow is good enough to write with the backside without having to use any pressure then I would say go for it).

 

Also a light press I don't think should be a problem either since it's either less than what the normal side of the nib would take and wouldn't be passing the point of hysteresis (meaning it's well below the amount of force that would be required to alter the nib's shape where it can't spring back to it's original position).

 

A good number of my nibs can be written from both sides, usually the back side tends to be a finer line, sometimes drier (but not always). Some nibs simply can't do it especially with certain inks (my pilot murex for example will write on the back side with a light touch with Noodler's Blue Steel, but not Noodler's Liberty's Elysium). I also have one nib that writes medium~broad on the normal side, but writes a crisp italic stub on the back side.

 

PS: Some nibs are actually designed to do so. For example an ItalliFine grind done on a Vanishing point nib (or any other pre-ground specialty nib that Richard Binder offers such as for Pelikan) will do a cursive italic on the normal side but a round fine on the backside.

Edited January 1, 2015 by KBeezie

[wimg]

Many nibs aren't designed to write on both sides, mainly because of ink flow problems in the first place. As indicated higher up, the nib tends to close on the top side with even the smallest of pressures, especially with the geometry of the slit, which tends to be an inverted V in cross section.

 

However, most nibs can be adjusted, and with some nib smoothing may be made to write as well reversed as when writing normal.

 

I tend to adjust all nibs to write on both sides, and I even do some theoretically 'impossible' nibs occasionally, like double left footed italic obliques .

 

Warm regards, Wim

[migbotero]

For me it is a "plus" for a pen the ability for doing well in reverse writing.

Although you should not choose any pen by this ability, I think it is a good luck to get a pen with these "hidden line" ability.

But always without significant pressure on the nib, and for some specific purposes like sketching, or writing in small areas of your notebook, marginal notes, etc.

[transcend]

I'm currently loving life on the reverse side of the nib.

 

Thank you all for your blessings and notes.

Edited January 11, 2015 by transcend

[balson]

as others have pointed out there have been dual sided nibs from a number of makers. although parker made a more beautiful and effective one, waterman was the first one to patent a dual sided nib.

 

https://www.google.com/patents/US1154498?dq=nib+flexibility&hl=en&sa=X&ei=rOHJU9KEKtavyASO9oCwDQ&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAQ

 

 

the only reference i have seen to nibs being damaged by writing upside down was in this patent by wahl. my guess is that it probably would only apply to flexible nibs

 

https://www.google.com/patents/US2105049?dq=nib+flexibility&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kAPKU5O5CIKKyAS664L4CA&ved=0CEgQ6AEwBg

 

 

edit: here are some photos of a waterman nib and a parker nib with the dual sided tips. the waterman nib is out of alignment and had some bend damage, so there might be something to flexible nibs being damaged by using them inverted.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YU5G5NB6BP0/VLarhL4sG8I/AAAAAAAABaE/aCtb80xMUMQ/s1600/IMG_4776.jpghttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6uFG7uIXykI/VLargB3eknI/AAAAAAAABZ8/2lXbmCV7v6c/s1600/IMG_4784.jpg

Edited January 14, 2015 by balson