Help For Identify A Possible Fake 149 Nib

[rgarciasandoval]

Hi everybody

 

I just lay my hands on a 149 pen that is supposed to be from the 80's. The pen looks legit to my knowledge, but the imprints of the nib looks odd.

 

I am not sure if is a good fake of a bad original nib.

 

Please could you look at the pict and give me your opinion?

 

Thank you very much in advance and happy holidays in advance

 

Very best

 

Ricardo

Edited December 23, 2014 by rgarciasandoval

[Mister Mont Blanc]

What exactly are you concerned about on the nib? I don't see anything wrong with the imprints and I'm not sure a fake nib would be on a real pen, at least I hope not! lol

[I like mango cheesecake]

No fake 149's on the market

 

Let's just get that straight.

[rgarciasandoval]

Hi there, thanks for answering. Well maybe I am just a bit paranoid, the circle around the M is not complete and the imprint looks not very precise, I mean compared with the other great nib-pictures posted here in the forum. I haven't seen an imprint fading from the nib before

 

Besides that the filling mechanism is resin, and the barrel seams to be one piece as in other pens from the 80's The clip has this just "GERMANY" imprint with a weird Y as in some other pens from those days

 

Thanks a lot for looking

 

Ricardo

[Mister Mont Blanc]

Ahh okay now I see it. Yeah I don't know about that one. My gut is saying it's older and maybe was made at a time when some flaws were in the system, like the "Y" in "Germany" you mentioned. Most of mine were purchased brand new from MB and yet I'm still shocked to see some things here and there from such a "detail oriented" brand. I think some things just slip through (like glue oozing onto the clip ring or an incomplete circle on the nib).

[AndrewC]

Nib looks alright. If you look at the scratch pattern along the outer edge it looks like the pen was filled and then the top of the nib was drawn along the rim of the bottle to get off excess ink, and then wiped with something coarse. Depending on how the pen was held and tipped as it was drawn out that could account for the altered appearance. I have seen nibs where the rhodium masking was worn almost completely off. If that pen is from the 80s, that is when MB was becoming very "hip" and production was ramping up, so it could just be a nib that was made imperfectly and got through QA/QC in the rush. Here in California it seemed like every attorney had to have a MB. Junior partners had 146s and senior partners had the full set and used the 149s. And they all drove BMWs.

 

How does the nib write?

[rgarciasandoval]

Hi again

 

Thanks guys, yes looks like a not very carefully made nib, the circle is in fact incompletely engraved and the rhodiIum mask is falling out (just a bit), but besides that the pen writes great. Supposed to be a F nib it is more like a M, juicy, fast starter a very very reliable pen.

 

This is my second 149, I have a newer one with all the Pix engraving system and you can see the difference

 

Thanks for your post guys!

 

Ricardo

[zaddick]

Looks totally fine to me.

[Chrissy]

The nibs pictured are authentic

[SuziB76]

What about the "18c" versus the "18k"? What does the "c" stand for?

[zaddick]

What about the "18c" versus the "18k"? What does the "c" stand for?

It means exactly the same thing. The pens used to use C for the gold content designation, then switched to K. Note you also see AU 750 for 18K.

[thoppen]

No fake 149's on the market

 

Let's just get that straight.

 

Are there fake 146s on the market?

[Seif]

I was having the same doubts about a recently bought Meisterstück 149. The nib has 14C on it rather than 14K and 585 ( without Au!) engraved under Montblanc instead of Au 585. There is no Stod on the nib nore any serial number on the upper cap ring. Also Pix is missing from the lower cap ring and from the reverse side of the clip.

 

The nib is F point and unusually flex compared with the MB nibs. I bought it from Ebay where it was advertised as New from early 90's.

 

Do these signs indicate a fake MB 149?

 

These are all very different from my new 149's and 146.

I also have a 144 bought sometime in the early parts of the 90's but has all the ring number etc and the nib is 14K rather than 14C.

 

I would appreciate any comments from the experts especially about the unusual nib charaterization, lacking so many of the characteristic marks of the newer Meisterstück nibs. The nib is two tone like the nib of any classic Meisterstück.

 

Many thanks in advance!

 

Seif

 

[______Zaphod_Beeblebrox]

Best way to keep from buying a fake is always buy from an autherized dealer.

 

If you are buying off eBay you are taking your chances and if the price is to good to be true, it probably is.

 

If you are buying used, buy from a reputable dealer.

 

Of course, I know you guys know this already.

[______Zaphod_Beeblebrox]

They should have make a separate forum just for "is this a counterfeit?" and "is this fake?" Questions.

[zaddick]

I was having the same doubts about a recently bought Meisterstück 149. The nib has 14C on it rather than 14K and 585 ( without Au!) engraved under Montblanc instead of Au 585. There is no Stod on the nib nore any serial number on the upper cap ring. Also Pix is missing from the lower cap ring and from the reverse side of the clip.

 

The nib is F point and unusually flex compared with the MB nibs. I bought it from Ebay where it was advertised as New from early 90's.

 

Do these signs indicate a fake MB 149?

 

These are all very different from my new 149's and 146.

I also have a 144 bought sometime in the early parts of the 90's but has all the ring number etc and the nib is 14K rather than 14C.

 

I would appreciate any comments from the experts especially about the unusual nib charaterization, lacking so many of the characteristic marks of the newer Meisterstück nibs. The nib is two tone like the nib of any classic Meisterstück.

 

Many thanks in advance!

 

Seif

 

Sounds like a genuine pen from the early to mid 1980s. You should see black threads when opening the piston, instead of brass threads in the 1990s and beyond.

 

Find the thread on dating 149s. It is a good read with a great chart.

[luckduck369]

Is the nib in question a two-tone 18C nib? I didn't see such nib in the dating chart and a web search didn't show any relevant information.

 

Would someone please shed more light on the nib, such as the era, market, etc?

 

Thanks!

[Seif]

Sounds like a genuine pen from the early to mid 1980s. You should see black threads when opening the piston, instead of brass threads in the 1990s and beyond.

 

Find the thread on dating 149s. It is a good read with a great chart.

 

Thanks!

 

Could you please post the link to this thread?

It will be very useful to me and many others and will be highly appreciated!

[Seif]

Is the nib in question a two-tone 18C nib? I didn't see such nib in the dating chart and a web search didn't show any relevant information.

 

Would someone please shed more light on the nib, such as the era, market, etc?

 

Thanks!

 

 

The nib is indeed two tone and it is F point 14C (and not 18C).

 

Thanks!

[AndrewC]

Not sure if this is the article referred to but...This is from Pentrace and was written by Lex Villines. I should point out that Lex sold all his Montblanc pens after MB sent lawyers after a small pen seller for listing a customized MB pen for sale. Apparently, once customized, MB objected to calling it a MB. The article is a good bit of info however.

My Montblanc 149s - 1952 to 1990 by Lex Villines Article # 405 Article Type: Pen Identification

 

http://newpentrace.com/lex_images/MB149/149%27s1.jpg

Full view of Montblanc 149s

Vintage and less vintage I don't have any 90's vintage 149's
These range from 1952 to about '90, they only come in black

l to r
1. circa 1952 celluloid
2. circa '59 celluloid
3. early 60's
4 & 5 mid 70's to early 80's
6. about '90

http://newpentrace.com/lex_images/MB149/149%27s3.jpg

Same line up but with a vintage 146 first in line to show the size difference

 

http://newpentrace.com/lex_images/MB149/149%27s2.jpg

The stars

I just like this shot, you can see the yellowing on the early celluloid star

http://newpentrace.com/lex_images/MB149/149%27s3.jpg

Filler knobs

The 50's celluloid pens have the model heat stamped on the filler knob, I have yet to see one with the nib style stamped and I believe it's because in the day if you bought one of these the nib of your choice was fitted for you. I think this allowed the store to keep a smaller inventory of expensive pens on hand. Also note the gold band near the filler, early pens have a rounded band and even into the 60's this is true, after about 1972 the band is flat and wide

 

http://newpentrace.com/lex_images/MB149/149%27s4.jpg

The Nibs

The nibs differed, the earliest were 3 tone with the gold/silver/gold and in the later 60's the two tone nibs were produced.

 

http://newpentrace.com/lex_images/MB149/149%27s5.jpg

Ink window

Almost all aged celluloid pens will have some ambering in the ink window

 

http://newpentrace.com/lex_images/MB149/149%27s6.jpg

Ink window

This one shows how the black stripes wear on the early pens

http://newpentrace.com/lex_images/MB149/149%27s7.jpg

Later resin ink window

The resin pens always seem to have nice clear windows

 

http://newpentrace.com/lex_images/MB149/149%27s8.jpg

Filler threads

This is one of the best ways to break down the main era of your pen,
The first pens made from 1952 to 1959 have a telescoping filler and when the knob is back you can see white colored metal, in the 60's to the late 70's you see a black plastic area there. About 1990 the part is made of brass and they're still made that way today.

 

http://newpentrace.com/lex_images/MB149/149%27s9.jpg

The feeds

The first feeds were flat with grooves, mid 50's to late 50's are rounded with full length grooves, 60's is rounded with grooves only on the sloping face of the rounded feed, 70's on have no grooves

 

http://newpentrace.com/lex_images/MB149/149%27s10.jpg

Cap band imprint

Early export pens have a very tiny MADE IN GERMANY stamped in them, this '59 model is stamped on the cap

 

http://newpentrace.com/lex_images/MB149/149%27s11.jpg

Barrel imprint

the circa 1952 PENS have this imprint on the barrel

 

http://newpentrace.com/lex_images/MB149/149%27s12.jpg

Top cap ring

60's and 70's just have GERMANY

 

http://newpentrace.com/lex_images/MB149/149%27s13.jpg

Top cap ring

From 1980's

 

http://newpentrace.com/lex_images/MB149/149%27s14.jpg

Top cap ring

This one is made about '90

http://newpentrace.com/lex_images/MB149/149%27s15.jpg

Cap clips

The clips are probably the least reliable way to date a 149. Early 149s have a short hump in the middle of the clip, later ones have a longer hump and the newest have the short hump again, also as you can see there are about as many different stampings as there are pens

Final text
There you go, just about everything I know about MB 149's.

Most of the info I have about specific dates or era's came from the great Barry Gabay article in the December '02/January 03 and Feb/Mar 03 issues of Pen World magazine. Some of my observations are a little different but that is what I have found on my pens. I tend to think of them as celluloid then early plastic and later plastic with the brass filler. Beyond that it really doesn't matter much as all of them are great writers. You really have to try a BB flex nib to really get a feel for what made these early pens stand out and shine in the ball point era.

Thanks for looking.
lex

Edited January 22, 2015 by AndrewC