Dating Parker 75 Pens

[mitto]

wow these pens look so good i defenetly want to buy one are they good reliable daily writers ? im not much of a collector i enjoy writing with my pens

i found some pictures with sexy red "body" is it the same model or are those custom ?

http://penpenpen.weebly.com/parker-75-burgundy.html

http://vintagepencollectibles.com/Parker_Pens.html

Perhaps P75 prototypes. Especially the ones with red and blue sections.

[gregglee]

also

http://www.parker75.addr.com/Reference/Sections/Section.htm

http://www.parker75.addr.com/Reference/Sections/Colored_sections.htm

 

From http://www.parker75.addr.com/index.html This site has been mentioned already in this topic

It includes http://www.parker75.addr.com/Reference/Parker75_Ref.htm

[shinigami]

also

http://www.parker75.addr.com/Reference/Sections/Section.htm

http://www.parker75.addr.com/Reference/Sections/Colored_sections.htm

 

From http://www.parker75.addr.com/index.html This site has been mentioned already in this topic

It includes http://www.parker75.addr.com/Reference/Parker75_Ref.htm

I wish i had the red one looks really cool

[jmccarty3]

wow these pens look so good i defenetly want to buy one are they good reliable daily writers ? im not much of a collector i enjoy writing with my pens

 

 

 

P75s are excellent daily writers. The interchangeable nibs are particularly useful--I have a fine, a medium, and a stub for mine.

[idazle]

Hello all,

 

I have produced a new version of the initial chart after checking for consistency with gregglee's chart. In general terms both charts were consistent with each other, although whereas greeglee's chart sets a relative time sequence without providing specific years mine takes the risk of providing an absolute temporal sequence.

 

In at least one specific instance when both charts were not consistent (i.e. the relative date for the introduction of the broad cap band), I've adopted gregglee's result. The reason for this is that with regard to that particular attribute I was perhaps relying too much on information from ads. Ads might be a good source to set the earliest date of introduction of a given pen characteristic, but less so when discussing when that trait was phased out. Sometimes ads keep being used for a while after small changes in a pen are introduced.

 

Other changes in the chart are: 1.) variations are now shown sequentially according to the year we estimate they were introduced; 2.) sources for ads are quoted more accurately; 3.) the legend under the pic of the different clip types has been ammended as there was a mistake in the previous one; and 4.) price information has been added for the Vermeil.

 

Overall the chart is consistent with the Parker75.com web site's assertion that the transition period from flat to dished tassies and small to large arrowhead clip is estimated to be from 1970-71. However thanks to gregglee's and others' contributions, in this thread we provide some additional insight, such as setting the date for the transition from long to short gripping section somewhat earlier than the 1970-71 turning point, and the transition from narrow to broad cap band somewhat later than that.

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2015 by idazle

[idazle]

Concerning dating early USA Parker 75 there are at least a couple of issues we have not dealt with in length in this thread. Both have been mentioned by gregglee in a previous post. One concerns the Vermeil Parker 75 and to what extent the chart is to be applied to this model. The other is related to the designation code used for nib size on the back of the nib unit.

 

In the Parker 75 site, Lih-Tah Wong provides some useful insights to date Vermeil Parker 75 pens, apart from the attributes they share with the standard sterling silver production, such as tassies, cap bands, etc. which followed the same temporal pattern in both models.

 

1. Apparently Vermeil Parker 75 pens were not produced beyond 1974 (based on the fact that no advertisement can be found after that year).

2. Early models (years?): 14K gold over sterling + flat tassies + old style clip + cap band with inscription "Sterling & 1/20 14K G.F." (earliest) or "Sterling & 14K G.F"

3. Late models (years?): 22K gold over sterling + dished tassies + new style clip + cap band with inscription "Sterling Vermeil Cap & Barrel".

4. Some transition specimens with mixed attributes (e.g. early flat tassie zero-mark models with new style clip or late dished tassie models with old cap inscription).

 

I would also add that Vermeil fountain pens were priced at $50 (twice as much as the standard sterling silver) as late as 1972 (according to information from ads), but my own collection's Vermeil pen (late production) has a price tag of $65 (1973? 1974?).

 

What I haven't been able to ascertain is if all Vermail pens came with a letter only designation system for the point size and, if so, whether this was due to the fact that they were sold in standard nib sizes only which did not require an extended numeric system. Mine comes with an "M" engraved on the back of the nib unit and it is clealy a late model, with dished tassies, broad band cap with late Vermeil inscription, late slim aerometric ink convertor, etc.

 

I attach some pics.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2015 by idazle

[gregglee]

My two 14K over sterling pens are

================================

plastic short zero flat narrow

Nib size 67

Cap Inscription: ($ used for the arrow-through-oval parker mark.)

Parker under clip

 

$ PARKER STERLING MADE IN U.S.A.

& 14K G.F.

================================

plastic short blank dish wide

Nib size F

Cap Inscription: ($ used for the arrow-through-oval parker mark.)

Parker opposite clip

 

$ PARKER U.S.A

STERLING VERMEIL CAP & BARREL

 

Also the cap band on this one, to the right of the inscription, has an impressed flattened hexagon with raised text inside "483 FI"

The long axis of the hexagon and the text inside run at right angle to the inscription text. I need to take a picture.

[gregglee]

For what it's worth, another variation of the crosshatch pattern is the gold fill or gold plate over brass model called the "Insignia." Crosshatch spacing, cap band width and band engraving (minus the precious metal labels), clips and tassies seem to be the same as the sterling crosshatch. On the earlier version the crosshatch lines are not as deep.

[idazle]

================================

plastic short blank dish wide

Nib size F

Cap Inscription: ($ used for the arrow-through-oval parker mark.)

Parker opposite clip

 

$ PARKER U.S.A

STERLING VERMEIL CAP & BARREL

 

Also the cap band on this one, to the right of the inscription, has an impressed flattened hexagon with raised text inside "483 FI"

The long axis of the hexagon and the text inside run at right angle to the inscription text. I need to take a picture.

 

Are you sure this Vermail is a 14K over sterling? According to Lih-Tah the characteristics and inscription corresponds with a 22K over sterling electroplated pen.

 

It'll be interesting to see a pic of that hexagon. Mine has the same attributes as yours but no hexagon beside the inscription.

[gregglee]

Careless wording on my part. I should have said "gold over sterling."

 

I remembered that I bought the pen through eBay from someone located in Italy. Pen is marked entirely made in USA. Parker75.com mentions "485 FI" as belonging to Parker's Italian importer and distributor.

 

http://www.parker75.addr.com/Reference/Special_markets/Italy.htm

 

Text is the same but no star as shown in the picture, and there may be a rectangle around it rather than a hexagon. The picture shows a pen made in France, so perhaps the mark for USA origin was different, or the mark was changed at some point.

Edited November 15, 2015 by gregglee

[mitto]

For what it's worth, another variation of the crosshatch pattern is the gold fill or gold plate over brass model called the "Insignia." Crosshatch spacing, cap band width and band engraving (minus the precious metal labels), clips and tassies seem to be the same as the sterling crosshatch. On the earlier version the crosshatch lines are not as deep.

 

Yes, I have both the earlier and the later versions. The earlier one has the '14k GF' marking on the cap band while the later one with the deeper crosshatch lines doesn't have the precious metal labels.

[Starguard]

This is so useful, but it's getting harder to find, is there any way to make it a sticky?

[mitto]

Edited

Edited May 7, 2016 by mitto

[mitto]

Further food for thought:

 

 

 

 

From left to right:

1)Flat, long, thin, front engraving, 0 mark

2)Flat, short, thin, front engraving, 0 mark

3)Dish, short, thin, front engraving, blank

4)Dish, short, broad, back engraving, blank

5)Dish, short, broad, back engraving, blank (sterling vermeil)

6)Dish, short, broad, front engraving, blank (Made In France).

 

I have observed differnce in the back engravings of the thin band flat tassies and the thin band dish tassies pens. (The front engraving is the same).

 

 

 

The first two pens (in the following picture) from left to right are flat tassies, front engraving, thin band (first one long and the second one short section ridges), 0 mark while the third is dish tassie, blank, short, thin, front engraving.

 

The back engraving pattern is the same on the flat tassies pens regardless of the section ridges whether short or long. But it is different on dish tassies, thin band, blank and short section ridges pen.

 

Just wanted to share.

[mitto]

Sorry, the pictures somehow couldn't be attached.

Here is the first picture (of the 6 pens):

 

 

 

 

 

 

And here is the 2nd pictures showing the back engravings on three thin band pens:

 

 

 

 

[alexwi]

Hi,

 

This is an old but very relevant discussion.

 

I found a bit of interesting trivia (some of which I didn't know) about early 75's:

 

This pen has all the right LATE First Year Production stuff:

"0" Marking on the Section Ring

Clip Recessed into the Cap End and Not the Barrel

Flat Cap and Barrel Ends

Large Two-Section Squeeze filler with Grooved Band

Numbered Nib with ***Numbering on the slope of the feed not on the flat hub*** This is the earliest of the Parker 75 numbered nibs. The "66" is for "Medium"

It's from listing #273257821864 from seller hodibabu

I'm curious also about why numbers on the nibs, as opposed to letters, to designate their size, wasn't included in the table, as that's a pretty well known clue to help narrow down the manufacture date.

Alex

[Addertooth]

Here is a picture of a Parker made (according to the Manual) 1992. I am not sure it is a 75, I wouldn't mind some input on this.

 

[thx1138]

It is indeed a 75. Very nice too.

What grade of nib does it have?

Date code is 1991. Towards the end of 75's production fun in 94.

[Addertooth]

Thank you THx1138, it is a "M" medium Nib in 18 carat gold. I was just confused because it lacked the silver ring at the nib which was in other pictures.

Edited June 13, 2019 by Addertooth

[thx1138]

7that is a mark 3 nib and section. The ring was made smaller because of corrosion issues with the original style.

The Mk3 nib also is completely different to the two early styles.