My First Waterman - Ideal #5?

[gweimer1]

Well, another new pen for me. It's my first Waterman fountain pen. I'm not completely sure what I have, but I've narrowed it down to and Ideal #3 or #5. I got it non-working. The sac was actually gooey inside. I replaced it last night, and inked it up today. It's REALLY wet. Too wet, in fact. The nib is a 14K, and is marked Ideal Rigid, and has the number 5 stamped on it.

So, what do I have? And, despite the flood, and a fairly loose fitting nib, it writes really nicely.

 

 

[ralfstc]

Hi,

 

That's a Commando, model number I believe is 515? I have one made in Montréal. It's a nice wee pen, but mine is pretty wet too!

 

Se Richard's page on the model: http://www.richardspens.com/?page=ref/profiles/commando.htm

 

Ralf

[gweimer1]

Oh, cool! And....I really should look at the barrel stampings closer. LOL. It's a nice little pen, and I have all of $14 invested in it at this point.

 

It also just so happens that I have a pencil that may go with it. The cap is a little different, but it matches the pen pretty closely.

[sidthecat]

I bought a 515 some weeks after I bought a Commando and it's interesting to compare the two. It appears that the 515 is slightly older in design than the Commando; almost a demonstration of conservative and progressive approaches to design.

[Left FPN]

so technically the 515 is not a Commando.

[domnortheast]

So, side by side what is the difference in design between the Commando and the 515? From the pictures they look very similar.

 

I have a Commando, it looks the same as the pictures you posted Gweimer1. It also has a wet wet wet nib - or at least it did have before I had a bit of an accident (ahem! ) with the feed a few weeks ago. The nib is currently on a Waterman Thorobred where it continues to be wet wet wet while I find a replacement feed.

[brettttt]

Here's what I *believe* to be true:

 

1. "Commando" is the model name and "515" is the model number for the same pen.

2. In the US Waterman's tended to use model names, whereas in the UK (and to a lesser extent Canada) they tended to use model numbers. These tendencies are reflected not only in the ads, but also in the fact that, as far as I know, US models never had "515" stamped on them and UK models never had "Commando" stamped on them.

3. The single wide bands version is later than the two thin bands version.

4. The model lingered longer in the UK than in the US. I don't believe I've ever seen a wide banded US-made pen. (They might well be around, though.)

 

Herewith some documentation, mostly because I like old ads. This first one is from the Saturday Evening Post of 23 August 1941 (apparently before Waterman's had decided on the Commando model name):

http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae246/brettttt/Sat_Eve_Post_1941-08-23_p93_zps5e8cd547.jpg

 

From the Montreal Gazette of 13 December 1943:

http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae246/brettttt/Montreal_Gazette_1943-12-13_p7_zps917ff575.jpg

 

From the Ottawa Evening Citizen of 11 December 1946:

http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae246/brettttt/Ottawa_Citizen_1946-12-11_p25_zpsfbb42723.jpg

 

From the 1947 US catalog:

http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae246/brettttt/Waterman_catalog_1947-9_zps7d56813c.jpg

 

From the 7 December 1949 issue of Punch:

http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae246/brettttt/Punch_1949-12-07_pxiii_zpsb7752e27.jpg

[Left FPN]

Compelling evidence Brettt.

 

Can I have 10 off D pens please, no make that 100.

[domnortheast]

Hmm confused now, I have realized the pen I have, which I thought was a Commando, has some differences to those shown. For a start the imprint only says 'Waterman's Made in England', it doesn't include the name 'Commando' also there is no metal housing for the lever, it is let straight into a slot in the barrel plastic.

 

Other than that it appears the same size and shape and has the twin narrow cap bands, the clip is the same style. The cap end is a metal disc / rivet that secures the clip.