Which Waterman?

[Nick7]

After I mentioned I started using fountain pens once again (and spending quit some money on it ), my grandparents told me they once got a fountain pen, and if I would like to have it. Ofcourse I replied positive, and after a short search they came up with this pen. It appears to be a Waterman with an golden nib, but I'm not sure because I haven't seen this style clip on a Waterman yet, and the top of the cap and the box say CL, and a search on google didn't give any results.

 

I hope that there are some experts here who can help me to identify this pen, and whether it is a genuine Waterman. Thanks in advance!

 

http://i884.photobucket.com/albums/ac48/Quattro7/7339dde5-22d8-462e-9c00-2b8a62679450_zpsc552e59c.jpg\

http://i884.photobucket.com/albums/ac48/Quattro7/bce7f178-5362-4929-ae34-e750754ae3f1_zpsd6053f8e.jpg

http://i884.photobucket.com/albums/ac48/Quattro7/5c8071a4-4750-45bf-8965-f901d7778f6d_zpsb6fb3afa.jpg

 

[RMN]

I am not sure about the model type. I would say from the 80's

 

But that logo is for Credit Lyonais, which is a bank. You can order many pens with a logo. Quite often done by large companies. Today you would get a BP-RB set, many years back it would be a FP-MP set.

These pens were probably used as a gift for new clients or for special occasions for the workforce.

 

D.ick

[WAKER]

Hello Nick7,

this pen is a Graduate.

CL is for CREDIT LYONNAIS,( a french bank),This is a businness gift pen.

[RMN]

Hello Nick7,

this pen is a Graduate.

CL is for CREDIT LYONNAIS,( a french bank),This is a businness gift pen.

It is NOT a Graduate. Wrong clip and section.

 

I think it is a Cotelé

 

 

D.ick

[Nick7]

Thank you for your replies. It's great to know a bit more about the history/ background of this pen. I looked for images of the Cotelé and it looks exactly alike, so I'm pretty sure that it is a Cotelé.

[WAKER]

D.ick,

 

Well observed. Indeed.

[RMN]

D.ick,

 

Well observed. Indeed.

Yeah, well I don't blame you as they often look very much alike, and the number of ridges, or a slightly different ring make all the difference.

I always compare them to CaptainChang to be sure.

 

 

D.ick

[Ernst Bitterman]

Remembering of course that the pen named as Cotelé on Captain Chang's website has been identified as a Super Master; I've exchanged emails with him, and he's apparently not able to update. Notice also that the clip is substantially different; the only pen I've got with that sort of slender clip is a Master (below), but the OP's clip looks even more slender head-on. All of which is to say I don't know what it is, precisely, but it's probably not a Cotelé....

 

http://dirck.delint.ca/beta/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Waterman-0446c.jpg

[RMN]

Remembering of course that the pen named as Cotelé on Captain Chang's website has been identified as a Super Master; I've exchanged emails with him, and he's apparently not able to update. Notice also that the clip is substantially different; the only pen I've got with that sort of slender clip is a Master (below), but the OP's clip looks even more slender head-on. All of which is to say I don't know what it is, precisely, but it's probably not a Cotelé....

 

http://dirck.delint.ca/beta/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Waterman-0446c.jpg

Dirck, your observations are usually valid.

 

But he did update, as the Carene and Edson are now on the page, which were absent AFAIR until recently.

 

Because of the difficulties Waterman is presenting us with, I also took care to say: I think it is a Cotelé.

 

 

D.ick

[Left FPN]

If I may jump in here,

 

[RMN]

Interesting puzzle now.

 

Force, does that enormous library of yours contain an official Waterman picture of the Cotelé???

 

D.ick

[Ernst Bitterman]

Ah. Shows how long has passed since I glanced at his site (and how old our exchange about the Super Master is); I'd best get over there and see how things lie now. {pause...} Say, what I'm seeing shows last update in 2011 and no Edson. Is this the same link as you're going to? http://captainchang.com/pens/waterman.html

 

I'm still nearly religious in my position that Cotelé isn't a model name; I've yet to find it in any of the (very few) post-1970 catalogues I have access to, and "cotelée", appearing twice in that big 2010 Gomez auction listing to describe the sections of a couple of Lady Patricias, is as close as that document gets to mentioning the word. The 1988 catalogue definitely has the Super Master shown under that name.

 

(and here we see why composing messages on the job is so problematic-- I'd started typing this before Force offered his useful picture)

Edited July 16, 2014 by Ernst Bitterman

[RMN]

Sorry Dirck, We have the same link, but I looked crooked. I saw the Ici-et-la at the bottom and took it for the Edson, These caps look similar (not the nib and section so that was really stupid of me).

 

 

But Forces picture does state the Super Master and that really has a different clip and section from the pen above and named Cotele on Changs page.

I claim no expertise myself, having held neither of them.

 

D.ick

[Ernst Bitterman]

And then I looked again-- I'd forgotten that he's got that name hung on a couple of different pictures, and my previous scan missed the lower one. I've got that down as a Master, but my failure to do proper citation has me a little less certain about it. I know I was going by close kinship to the Master BPs in that auction, and the general similarity to the later Super Master, but I thought I'd run across something more definitive.

 

I think it's pretty funny that mine and his have the same discolouration of the section; what was Waterman doing with their plastic then?

[Left FPN]

D.ick, unfortunately it does not. I am always on the look out for Waterman catalogues or brochures but, as you know, they are like hens teeth.

 

If I can add two more pictures from that catalogue showing other SM colours and pen specifications.

 

 

Edited July 17, 2014 by Force

[Abstract]

I have done a review of the waterman carene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_NzX3VJL8c. This is my favourite waterman fountain pen, thank you for watching!

[RMN]

Hi Jacob. Good try. Not perfect yet. You are not yet comfy with the camera, and the lighting on the items you show could be better..

 

The Carene is a very nice pen. I was wondering about the leakage you mention. Where exactly does it leak?

 

 

 

One thing though. It is not polite to jump in someone's topic about a Waterman Cotele pen to promote your totally unrelated Waterman Carene video.

You should have made that a separate topic, and perhaps better in the reviews part of the forum.

But hey, we all make mistakes....

 

 

D.ick

[pajaro]

These pens look so much alike. If I had come across them I would have thought them to be Laureats.

[Ernst Bitterman]

These pens look so much alike. If I had come across them I would have thought them to be Laureats.

http://dirck.delint.ca/beta/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Waterman-0403.jpg

http://dirck.delint.ca/beta/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Waterman-0002.jpghttp://dirck.delint.ca/beta/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Waterman-RG3.jpghttp://dirck.delint.ca/beta/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Waterman-R103.jpg

 

Family resemblance, eh? I wish I had an Exclusive to add to the confusion. It's easy enough to spot the differences when they're all mashed up against each other, but in isolation, it can be a little tricky.

 

Oh, for those who wonder: Executive, Super Master, Laureat, Maestro.

[pajaro]

Thank you for the pictorial comparison. Now I know one of my unknowns is an Executive.