Secrets To Using Stub And Italic Nibs?

[Vikhalla]

I have had some trouble recently - I ordered a Franklin-Christoph model 27 with a medium cursive-italic nib that has been ground by Mike Masuyama. When I got the pen, it was as smooth as glass...about 1/3 of the time.

 

I couldn't get it to start reliably to the point of frustration so I spoke with F-C and returned it; exchanged it for a new pen with a 18k m-stub (Masuyama ground again) as a stub is supposed to be easier to use with normal handwriting.

 

I received the new pen today and it is the same EXACT issue - so I figure that I must be holding the pen wrong or something. I sat down and told myself, "Ok, I'm not getting up until I can get this pen to START on the first try, three times in a row." I sat for an hour and a half before I gave up (else there would be an hole in the wall the size of an expensive pen right now.) Sometime it would start up butter smooth, scratchy other, and just plain refuse to start still other times - then it would start in positions that make my hands incredibly uncomfortable and demand to stay there.

 

The nib is aligned properly, there's no gap between it and the feed.

 

Before I go through another round of customer support with F-C, I'm still going to assume user error and ask if there are any tricks or tips that I should know when using a stub-nib?

Edited June 12, 2014 by Vikhalla

[Pentulant]

You probably have done these things, but just in case...

 

..be sure to clean/flush the pen

...try different ink

...try different paper

 

If you're a lefty, you may have trouble with some non-traditional nibs and the position of your hand/paper when writing.

 

Sorry you're having such trouble - I have two F-C fountain pens with specialty grinds and adore them.

[Ghost Plane]

Finger writing is not your friend. Let the nib find it's natural position in the page. Sounds like you're shoving the nib up on a corner.

[mbankirer]

Stubs and cursive italics should be held at a constant angle. Usually about 45 degrees so that up-strokes are the narrow and down-strokes show the wide...does that make any sense to you!?

[dms525]

Italic/stub nibs can help you develop more interesting, legible and even beautiful handwriting, but they do require attention to some details that apply much less to round nibs. Italic and stub nibs have a writing surface that is more or less rectangular, rather than more or less spherical. Therefore, for ink to flow at all, one must make sure that the the angle of the pen to the writing surface as well as the rotation of the pen around it's long axis puts the writing face of the nib in contact with the paper. Stubs are more forgiving than cursive italic nibs about this, but the same principle applies.

 

As you write, look at the nib tip. You will see it is squared off, not round. Try to have the entire tip in contact with the paper as you draw a line. Very little pressure should be needed. Try drawing a line at right angles to the nib tip. This should be the broadest line you can make with your nib. Now make some other lines parallel to the nib tip. These should be the narrowest. In general, for most use of italic nibs, the pen should be held so the line of the cut end of the nib is at 45 degrees to the writing line. But that is a secondary concern, after keeping the nib end on the paper.

 

There are lots of other things to learn about using this type of nib to its full advantage, but the above should get you started.

 

Now, if there is a defect in the pen or nib, this won't help. If you have an unusual way of holding the pen, this may not help.

 

Please let us know.

 

David

[dms525]

Take a look at this diagram, made to answer a different question, but, I think it may help you.

 

 

David

[Scrawler]

Finger writing is not your friend. Let the nib find it's natural position in the page. Sounds like you're shoving the nib up on a corner.

wot she sez

[Beckwith]

In addition to being at an angle to the line in order to get "proper" italic writing, the nib also needs to be at a more particular angle coming out of the paper. While regular nibs have a more or less spherical tip that can write at any angle (theoretically), a stub or italic nib does not. Italics and stubs, in my experience, need to be held at a somewhat steeper angle than other pens.

[Ghost Plane]

Italics and stubs, in my experience, need to be held at a somewhat steeper angle than other pens.

This is a function of your grasp and writing style. Those of us who who hold our pens back on the body and almost sketch our letters using shoulder and wrist motions find they perform beautifully at very low angles.

[I like mango cheesecake]

post a pic or a vid of yourself writing. I bet you would get lots of constructive criticism on that.

 

I've home ground about 4 or 5 pens already, and each one is custom ground to my style of writing. I could be that you are subconsciously rotating your pen out of that sweet spot after a few minutes of writing.

 

I don't have enough guts to home grind my 149 though....

[Runnin_Ute]

I use my Lamy 1.1 at an angle shallower than 45 degrees frequently without issues.

[Algester]

or one can probably use the same principles in flex writing I think that will help?

[ac12]

Few ideas

- What ink are you using? And did you match the flow characteristic of the pen with the ink? If not Waterman ink is a good starting ink for a new pen. Pelikan ink can be a hard starter in a dry pen.

- As others have said, check the rotational angle of the pen so the tip of the nib (both tines) is FLAT on the paper.

- As you write, you also have to keep the rotational angle of the pen constant so the tip lays flat and even on the paper. Rotate the pen to lift one side and you loose ink flow. This is a very easy problem to have. I often do this with my Parker 51, and have to check the rotational angle of the pen when it stops writing, and that is always the problem.

- Checking the rotational angle can be difficult, because you are normally looking at the nib from the side, not looking straight down the pen. And what may look correct from the side is obviously not correct when you look down the pen.

[Vikhalla]

Thanks for the help, everyone. I've tried most of the suggestions (angle, ink, writing from the shoulder, etc) and I'm able to get it all to work but it's uncomfortable and it takes a level of concentration that distracts me from the content of what I'm putting down. (It's the starting that really annoys me - I like to gesture with my hands in between words and thoughts, this doesn't work well when you have to maintain correct form.)

 

I've come to the conclusion that stubs and italics just aren't for me right now. I'm just not willing to sacrifice productivity for the sake of learning how to use it, at this time, and I'm going to contact F-C about getting another 18K but with a regular medium nib. I will most likely experiment with less expensive stubs and italics to learn how to use them, I just want my most expensive pen to date to be hassle free.

Edited June 12, 2014 by Vikhalla

[Misfit]

I hope you do get a less expensive pen with italic or stub nib. It does take some time to get used to these nibs. How long depends on each person.

 

If you do get one and find how to make it write comfortably, I think you'll enjoy the result in your writing.

[tinta]

Don't give up on "edged" nibs.

 

As others have said, the angle of your nib to the paper is important. Try also not to rotate the grip of your pen (unless you have an actual oblique nib).

A deliberate, slower pace will help you to keep your italic nib on its "writing edge" when cursive writing or printing.

 

The stainless steel, un-tipped, JoWo 1.1 mm. factory stub that fits your Franklin-Christoph pen is surprisingly well behaved & at 25.00 USD & this German nib-set is not that expensive.

The kind folks at F-C carefully inspect each nib, set it onto the JoWo feed unit, adjust the nib for about a 7/10 flow, then test write with it before shipping it of to you.

 

I'd suggest holding off getting another C-F gold nib.

Take time to practise with a good stainless factory stub/italic before considering expensive customized options.

Italic style nibs are fun to use & can improve the look of your writing.

 

Stubs & CIs are the only style of nibs I use (mostly custom ground, in widths from 0.6 mm. to 1.1 mm.).

I prefer to hold my pens at a steeper angle of about 55 to 60 degrees.

When nearing the bottom of a page (where the nib-to-paper angle starts to become shallow) I slide up the whole page (or the book) to help me keep my preferred writing angle.

 

 

 

.

Edited August 4, 2014 by tinta

[balson]

This is a function of your grasp and writing style. Those of us who who hold our pens back on the body and almost sketch our letters using shoulder and wrist motions find they perform beautifully at very low angles.

 

+1 this

 

i hold my pen somewhere between 15-20 degrees and have no trouble with stubs.

 

to the op,

using a new nib might not hurt. i hated my lamy 1.1 stub nib when i got it. i had used a sheaffer calligraphy pen with a .8 stub nib before that with no problem, but when i was using the lamy nib i had the same problems you did. i put it away for a couple months and when i dug it out i had no problems using it.

[pajaro]

I have several stubs and italics, and I have no difficulty at all writing left handed with them. It takes no special approach other than letting the pen find its sweet spot where it writes. I find obliques far more challenging and annoying to use.

 

As stated before, if a new pen doesn't have good ink flow, clean it to get out the manufacturing residues.

[Oranges and Apples]

For stubs and italics you must have equal pressure through out the nibs plane and it must be in constant contact with the paper.

 

Such as, when you place the nib point (which is flat for the stub and italic nibs) the entire surface must contact the paper at the same time. No problem if you have a round point because well, in a round point, not matter where the nib meets the paper, it'll always be in the correct position.

 

In a stub and italic, if you do not place care on how the nib contacts the paper, an edge might meet the paper first where in fact you want the entire flat surface of a stub and italic to make contact simultaneously.

[islandink]

Take a look at this diagram, made to answer a different question, but, I think it may help you.

 

 

David

Thank you--this is the precise illustration I was looking for. That is the angle I use when writing with cursive italics...and have used for years though it was recently suggested to me by Someone Who Knows More About Pens than I do, that I should use a different angle vis a vis the writing line.