Help Beginning Ornamental/spencerian Script?

[Apprenti]

Hi guys!

I'm Joe, a student from the uk, and I'd like to learn some fancy writing. I've seen examples of copperplate and it's beautiful, but Ornamental Penmanship is just amazing IMO. I'm completely new to this, so I don't REALLY even know the difference between spencerian and ornamental, but I'm eager to learn both these styles (based on examples I've seen) and I'd like some help educating myself on the styles and on improving my handwriting. Exercises, alphabet studies, external resources are all much appreciated.

 

Also, what type of pen is ideal for this? I have dip pens and nibs and a couple of flex fountain pens so is it alright to practice with a fountain pen and produce more finished work with a dip pen?

 

Thanks in advance,

Joe

[mvarela]

Here you go: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/206198-learning-spencerian/

 

You'd do well to get an oblique holder, and a few pointed, flexible nibs (Gillott 303, 404, 170, Leonardt Principal EF, Nikko G)

 

Have fun!

[Apprenti]

Thank you I have a couple of straight pen holders and a ton of flexible pointed nibs that produce hairlines. What's the purpose of an oblique holder? Is it to do with how your wrist angles in that it straightens the nib out when you bend your wrist?

 

Thanks,

Joe

[Randal6393]

If you are right-handed, an oblique nib makes it much easier to pull the nib straight down the slant-line of the writing. This allows for easier, more robust flexing of the nib and a surer line. Of course, if you are a left-handed writer, your writing naturally aligns.

 

Enjoy,

[Apprenti]

Is it ok to use a straight one and to tilt the paper? Or at least until I can get an oblique one?

 

Also, are there any examples of ornamental or spencerian alphabets that I could work on?

Thanks a lot,

Joe

[deathbringer1128]

Is it ok to use a straight one and to tilt the paper? Or at least until I can get an oblique one?

 

Also, are there any examples of ornamental or spencerian alphabets that I could work on?

Thanks a lot,

Joe

It is totally fine to use a straight holder, but an oblique holder is easier to use.

 

http://www.iampeth.com/books/sull_volume_I/sull_volume_I_page131.html

 

^That page and the next two pages are full of Ornamental Capitals you can use.

 

http://www.iampeth.com/lessons/spencerian/Real_pen_work/real_penwork_index.html

 

^That links to a book for actual Spencerian handwriting, which has lighter shades and is much easier to pull off than OP.

 

http://www.johnnealbooks.com/prod_detail_list/133

 

^That links to a page where you can buy oblique holders. I would recommend the Century Oblique Holder.

 

If you are left handed and want to use an oblique holder, as I do, then I'm pretty sure you can ask JNB to make the Century Holder into a left-handed one. Or, if you want to fit multiple kinds of nibs in one holder, then try the PIA oblique holder.

 

http://www.paperinkarts.com/calligraphy-pens-oblique-pen-holders.html

[Iso*]

Hi there,

 

My first alphabets started in ornamental. I have a slight disinclination to call this script Spencerian, but I guess either is suitable.

This is the book I printed out and bound into a binder. It was worth the time.

 

http://www.iampeth.com/books/bloser/bloser_index.php

 

It has guides for every letter, capital and lowercase. I still refer back to it frequently as it also has examples of the finest penman at the end.

 

As for materials, I suggest that if you are right handed, do use an oblique holder. the angle in which the nib is held will help to align your point to the slant of the letters. In this way, you can get the finest hairlines. I am left handed, and I use a straight holder, and I tend to rotate the paper clockwise, opposite of those who write right handed... a bit strange, but then again, left handed people never really took off in OP.

 

In regards to practice, the biggest thing I wish to emphasize that so far (IMO, I don't see people on FPN discussing) I have observed is that people just go STRAIGHT to the letters... I say no to that, mainly because I really believe that you should practice the arm before you get into the letters. Many courses in ornate writing generally advocated that you would need to take business handwriting or cursive. This is to force you to use your arm. Do not use your fingers.

 

Although this is a view that I hold, I believe so because in using your arm, you have a much greater degree of movement and freedom. The fingers should only hold the pen, and nothing else. The arm does all the work. I suggest you practice your arm movements by practicing the ovals and push-pull exercises. Indeed, there are exercises in the link I have provided.

[Mickey]

As for materials, I suggest that if you are right handed, do use an oblique holder. the angle in which the nib is held will help to align your point to the slant of the letters. In this way, you can get the finest hairlines. I am left handed, and I use a straight holder, and I tend to rotate the paper clockwise, opposite of those who write right handed... a bit strange, but then again, left handed people never really took off in OP.

 

Oh really?

 

 

Edited January 21, 2014 by Mickey

[mvarela]

Hi there,

 

My first alphabets started in ornamental. I have a slight disinclination to call this script Spencerian, but I guess either is suitable.

This is the book I printed out and bound into a binder. It was worth the time.

 

http://www.iampeth.com/books/bloser/bloser_index.php

 

 

 

Seconded, that book is awesome!

[MusinkMan]

Hi guys!

I'm Joe, a student from the uk, and I'd like to learn some fancy writing. I've seen examples of copperplate and it's beautiful, but Ornamental Penmanship is just amazing IMO. I'm completely new to this, so I don't REALLY even know the difference between spencerian and ornamental, but I'm eager to learn both these styles (based on examples I've seen) and I'd like some help educating myself on the styles and on improving my handwriting. Exercises, alphabet studies, external resources are all much appreciated.

 

Also, what type of pen is ideal for this? I have dip pens and nibs and a couple of flex fountain pens so is it alright to practice with a fountain pen and produce more finished work with a dip pen?

 

Thanks in advance,

Joe

 

 

Yes, Joe, you can use your flexible nibbed fountain pens to do ornamental pen styles. They won't have the ultra fine lines of a dip pen, but even so you can produce very nice specimens of writing with them. Just make sure that you have a decent flex nibbed fountain pen...I would stay away from things like the Noodler's Ahab (for example). Instead, get a vintage flexible nibbed pen, preferably with a 14k gold nib. And make sure that it is a flexible nib...not all vintage/gold nibs are flexible.''

 

As for oblique holders, they are not a necessity but they sure do make life a lot easier for pointed pen writing. They hold out the nib at an angle which approximates the slant of the letters. That means that when the nib is flexed, the nib is in position to fully flex for the downstroke when making slanted letters (which is just about 100% of the time). For styles such as Spencerian, it is especially useful.

 

I'm sticking a couple of examples of some writing I did with a flexible fountain pen vs. an dip pen with an oblique handle. This is just schlock practice stuff, so don't judge it too harshly. I also stuck a putrid example of Spencerian at the bottom so that maybe you could spot the differences in the two styles. Anyway...good luck to you, and I hope this helps to answer some of your questions. :-)

 

[Apprenti]

Thanks everyone, I won a set of Spencerian copy books and I was reading on IAMPETH this morning about writing with a straight pen, and there's a couple of pages in a book on how one should hold a straight pen for spencerian writing. I'd like to get an oblique later on though, perhaps even one of yours musicinkman? Beautiful writing samples by the way, I've been offered a flex-nibbed 1910's-15's pen and I've accepted it.

Cheers,

Joe

[Apprenti]

How does one know where to shade in spencerian?

[MusinkMan]

How does one know where to shade in spencerian?

 

Ha! A while back, that was the same question I asked. The shaded lines don't follow the same "rules" as copperplate and most other forms.

 

The answer is, you simply have to learn each letter from an exemplar. Most letterforms, you can figure out where to shade because the thick and thin lines conform to the principles of a broadnib's thick and thins. Not so with Spencerian. It takes a bit of practice time, but soon shading in the right places becomes automatic.

 

And thank you for the nice words about my writing. Looking forward to seeing your progress!

[Apprenti]

Ok, so just study what other people are doing?

 

I had a look at your online shop by the way, and I must say, I'm very impressed! The craftsmanship is very clean, and your wood choice is great! I'm studying to be a violin maker so your curly maple ones appeal to me a lot, but the holders with a burl tail are very nice too! Maybe someday I'll be able to afford one

 

Thanks a bunch,

Joe

[MusinkMan]

Ok, so just study what other people are doing?

 

I had a look at your online shop by the way, and I must say, I'm very impressed! The craftsmanship is very clean, and your wood choice is great! I'm studying to be a violin maker so your curly maple ones appeal to me a lot, but the holders with a burl tail are very nice too! Maybe someday I'll be able to afford one

 

Thanks a bunch,

Joe

Thank you for those kind words Joe! Yes, I did acquire some very excellent fiddleback maple lately. It's some luthier wood, 5AAAAA grade. The best I've ever gotten.

 

Anyway, yes...look at what the old Spencerian masters did. For a good beginning, get Michael Sull's book "Learning To Write Spencerian Script". http://www.amazon.com/Learning-write-Spencerian-script-Michael/dp/B0006R2AY6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1390382358&sr=8-1&keywords=Michael+Sull

 

It's clearly written, is short and concise, and has good instructions to get you off and running quickly!

 

Good luck!

[Apprenti]

Thanks why does the nib snag when I write? It only catches on the up-stroke, is it because of cheap paper or because it's a pad or what?

 

Joe

Edited January 22, 2014 by Apprenti

[MusinkMan]

Thanks why does the nib snag when I write? It only catches on the up-stroke, is it because of cheap paper or because it's a pad or what?

 

Joe

 

OK, you have arrived at the common Achilles heel of the pointed pen. LOL! Every one of us has faced this demon (and still it rears its ugly head occasionally), but I assure you that it is surmountable. Your paper is definitely one component of the problem.

 

There are actually 3 major components to getting good results...the nib, the ink, the paper. I'll say it again because it's so important that all 3 of these work in harmony. The nib, the ink, the paper.

 

For paper, make the investment and buy some Clairefontaine or Rhodia paper. You will be assured that your paper is adequate if you use that.

The ink...well, that takes a little experimentation and experience...but if you get some Higgins Eternal or some Tom Norton Walnut ink, those should work fine (although I know that the Higgins recommendation will probably garner some dissention). You can also get McCafferey's, etc. I get very good results from the Tom Norton Walnut ink, it works well with most all of my nibs.

 

Now, the "catching" of the nib...it is especially aggravating with sharper nibs. To begin with, try using a Zebra G nib or a Nikko G nib. Those are not so needle-sharp and are much easier to use. They will be fine for your purposes as you are early in the "learning curve". Once you get accustomed to them, you can move up into more "temperamental" nibs such as the Leonardt Principal, etc. So with that...try this combination:

 

the nib: Zebra G or Nikko G

the ink: Tom Norton Walnut or Higgins Eternal (both should work well)

the paper: Clairefontaine or Rhodia

 

Go to Paper and Ink Arts website or John Neal Booksellers website and you should find all of those items available to order online.

Or try Amazon, I often buy Clairefontaine paper there. Get the lined paper in a pad. It's great!

 

Good luck, Joe!

[Iso*]

Mickey, LATE response, yes I am aware of M.P. DeCollibus' scripts. I say in the past... sorry sorry.

 

As for regarding the nib catching problem, you just have to use a really, really ,really light hand, so that that nib barely touches the paper. Your fingers can do most of the work regarding adjusting altitude so that the nib doesnt catch. But then again, use your arm! I find most of my catching problems to be in the skill of the penman. My paper is Target Brand drawing paper, which really isnt that smooth, but I don't catch much. I can even write on 100% cotton resume paper. When I am not using 100% arm movement, I will catch... thats what I observe

 

And also for shading, Mr. P.Z. Bloser and Lupfer have stated that your shades should be controlled. Letters such as

 

d f p t - are generally shaded at the top otherwise bottom if necessary

 

a b c g h l m n o q r v x y - can be shaded, check the manual I have posted earlier. But then again these letters can omit the shades depending on how you want it to look.

 

e i j k s u w z - are less shaded than other letters. You can forcefully add a shade onto these letters, but its not to common to see these letters with shades on them. Maybe a small shade on k, but nothing too big here.

 

In the end, the shading techniques for each letter generally heuristic. You can learn where you want to put your shades, and each shade has an effect on the reader. Generally, as a rule of thumb, not more than every other letter should be shaded. Bigger shades will have a greater contrast on the lighter lines, but larger shades will make your script bolder, but may be a bit stranger to the eye. Personally, I like to have lighter, medium-ish shades.

 

As for practice, shading can be very difficult when you learn to control them. For me, what I have been doing is writing all the letters with shades without shades. This helps me to gain an understanding of where the lines should be, before I apply the shades into their locations. If you apply the shades as you work, it may be harder to establish the groundwork, i.e. where the lines should be.