Pen Made From Human Bone

[OcalaFlGuy]

 

It's not like your making Soylent Green..... http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-scared001.gif

 

BWAAHAAHAAHAA!

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

[Vendome]

It'd be even scarier if the 'Bone pen' started writing by itself.

[hoppes no9]

Surprised nobody has suggested using blood as ink in a bone pen. But I guess now somebody has.

[MisterBoll]

[The Grim Sheaffer]

In my country it is illegal to trade in any human body parts, bone gallstones ect. Does the US not have a similar law ?

[sitnstew]

In my country it is illegal to trade in any human body parts, bone gallstones ect. Does the US not have a similar law ?

 

I'm sure we do but not sure what type of things it applies to. For example, you can purchase cadaver bones as skeletal models without any problems. I assume this would be in the same class as that... but perhaps not. (ex. http://www.ebay.com/bhp/real-human-skull)

 

My original post was more out of curiosity than anything else. I don't think it's as creepy/disrespectful as other people seem to but perhaps I'm missing something innately disturbing about the human body.... I think the skeletal system is quite amazing and beautiful, which is why I was curious. I agree that it would probably be less than appropriate and ethically questionably to begin mass-producing fountain pens of this type but I'm not sure I see how it would be wrong if someone allowed their remains to be used in that way. I've had more than one patient going into an amputation surgery ask if they could keep their bone. Human remains are kept by many religious and historical preservationists out of respect and reverence.

[sitnstew]

Surprised nobody has suggested using blood as ink in a bone pen. But I guess now somebody has.

 

I actually saw an old post on here before about using blood as ink. Surprisingly, less people seemed offended by the idea.

[WirlWind]

Don't worry sitnstew, I don't think it's that creepy. I can kind of get it. I think I'd be fascinated as well, rather than grossed out.

 

 

But then again, you're talking to someone who has seen some (bleep). I'm not that affected by death anymore.

 

(If you're easily grossed out, don't read the code box below)

When I was 13, I was on the site of a particularly nasty car accident and held someone's hand while they died from being cut in half. After that, nothing really seems macabre like it once did.

I think once you get that switch flipped (something Dr's and Medics etc are likely to have switched) then it stops becoming gross and becomes kind of interesting because you become detached.

Edited December 31, 2013 by WirlWind

[penrivers]

I find it irreverent and profane of the human body and my intuition says that every religion on earth rejects it, of course I am not talking about blood transfusions or organ donations, we should be careful on this, the boundaries of mode, trends and pure evil and madness are as always subtle and foggy.

[AnnieB123]

Have a google around some of the creepy/fascinating/creepily fascinating things the victorians did with/to/etc their dearly departed. I -distinctly- remember reading about someone having a flute from a human femur (I believe it was formerly an egyptian mummy)... I also remember a fair number of other momento mori (and there are certainly cultural/anthropological stories from talismanic to trophy usages for human remains), such as rings etc. (And no, I'm talking about people venerating/caring about the people who had died, not trivializing/desecrating the dead (such as happened during times of war).

 

To answer your question, I doubt the legality and availability of human bone for pens, though there certainly are commercial businesses who will turn reclaimed carbon from a person into diamond and from a strictly philosophical viewpoint, I don't much see the difference... (although especially if one considers using the mail service, they get seriously cranky about that kind of thing).

 

I agree with the distancing thing. I have always found the body and its inner workings utterly fascinating. Bionerd from day 1. I don't find it horrifying (or even particularly creepy) at all. Then again, I spend a fair bit of my working life studying bones at the molecular (and macro) level.

 

From a practical point of view.. I am not sure that human cortical bone is dense enough to make good pen material is it? Cow bone is porous enough to stain pretty much instantly and indelibly when it comes into contact with ink/oils/etc and cow bone is -way- denser than human bone...

 

Oh! I just happened to think.. .might not be as 'cool' (in a weird way) as a bone pen, but one of the surgeons on staff had a spiffy pen (a rollerball, not a FP, so avert your eyes, FP fanatics! ) made of some sort of orthopedic hardware (I didn't get a close enough look to figure out what sort of implant it was...). I keep meaning to ask her when I see her... but they keep us bionerd labrats away from the surgical staff most of the time

[Unky]

I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but I am about 85% sure there are laws in the US preventing the trade of human body parts after a certain year. It might, and I stress might, be legal to own a human bone pen from before and including the Victorian era. You would have to consult with a lawyer to be certain. If anyone could find you one, it would be Obscura Antiques in New York. The specialize in macabre antiques.

[Aquinata]

I find it irreverent and profane of the human body and my intuition says that every religion on earth rejects it, of course I am not talking about blood transfusions or organ donations, we should be careful on this, the boundaries of mode, trends and pure evil and madness are as always subtle and foggy.

 

Ditto that!

[sitnstew]

I find it irreverent and profane of the human body and my intuition says that every religion on earth rejects it, of course I am not talking about blood transfusions or organ donations, we should be careful on this, the boundaries of mode, trends and pure evil and madness are as always subtle and foggy.

 

This statement is pretty melodramatic and simply incorrect. Heck, the Catholic church used the bones of saints as relics to attract worshipers in cathedrals throughout the world. The bones were literally centerpieces in church buildings. Tibetan Buddhists used human skulls in religious ceremony and often wore them as decoration. There are plenty of examples in religion that disagree with your sentiments. Of course, you are entitled to believe that it's not appropriate to use them in this way, but I personally don't feel as passionate about it.

 

An interesting article: http://cabinetmagazine.org/issues/28/taylor.php

[sitnstew]

After a bit of research, I have discovered that there is no law in the US that prohibits the sale or ownership of human bones (with the exception of Native Americans, due to a law that was passed to protect Native land rites for sacred ground). Now of course, you can think it's yucky if you want, however, it isn't illegal. In fact, there is a website called Boneroom that sells pretty much any human bone you could possibly want (for a steep price).

 

Now, clearly this topic has generated some very passionate opinions and I have no intention on making myself a bone pen or finding one of the alleged "devil worshipers" who might have one (I was simply curious) but I still think it's an interesting idea and personally don't think it's morally wrong to own something like this, as others seem to think. Some people could also argue that it is morally wrong to own a pen that costs several hundred dollars yet many of us are probably holding one in our hands right now.

[penrivers]

 

This statement is pretty melodramatic and simply incorrect. Heck, the Catholic church used the bones of saints as relics to attract worshipers in cathedrals throughout the world. The bones were literally centerpieces in church buildings. Tibetan Buddhists used human skulls in religious ceremony and often wore them as decoration. There are plenty of examples in religion that disagree with your sentiments. Of course, you are entitled to believe that it's not appropriate to use them in this way, but I personally don't feel as passionate about it.

 

An interesting article: http://cabinetmagazine.org/issues/28/taylor.php

Of course I knew it. I remember Evelyn Waugh novel 's Saint Helen in which the mother of emperor Constantine devastated Jerusalem in order to find the rests of the Cross. Some rests of Saint Therese de Lisieux crossed my town 4 or 5 years ago among the heat of multitudes in the streets and there are some examples in medioeval stories not sure if in La Comedia del Dante or El Decameron, I am chatolic but certainly I don belive in it, dust to dust.

[Inkling13]

Now, here's a few points that have been brought up, but I'd just like to add my 2 cents.

1: If you were to make a pen, how would you know that you were not disrespecting the individual from whom the bone came from? Especially if you didn't know the person when they were alive, and they didn't explicitly tell you, how could you know exactly if the bone was ethically sourced? I too, am in medical school, and I have handled human bones and while there was a box of them leased to me, and I can tell you that there isn't much bone available to make much of a pen if it was made in one solid piece. I also know that many medical schools' bone collections are very old, and have been sourced from grave robbers. There was a thriving blackmarket for bodies that has fallen by the wayside, but even so, the origins of the bones seemed dubious at best. I can tell you that I didn't get a complete set of anything, and that none of the bones in my bone box were from a different individual.

2: If you were sure that you sourced the bone ethically and respectfully, how will you know that that respect will continue? You too will die, and whether you want to or not, your descendants will most likely go through all your things and let most of it go. How will you ensure that the pen won't be thrown out, or end up in some thrift shop's discount pile?

3: Bone makes for a poor pen body. It's very porous, and stained easily. It checks and cracks, and isn't very stable, compared to plastics and resins today.

 

Final though: while you might not find enough solid bone in a human to turn into a pen, might you try using camel bone? their shin bones are available to work with, and thick enough for someone to turn. BUT! bone stinks something fierce. I can stand most bodily smells but bone dust is something I dislike. If you do find that this might be an option, you will need to find someone willing to work with the material despite the stench.

[MisterBoll]

After a bit of research, I have discovered that there is no law in the US that prohibits the sale or ownership of human bones (with the exception of Native Americans, due to a law that was passed to protect Native land rites for sacred ground). Now of course, you can think it's yucky if you want, however, it isn't illegal. In fact, there is a website called Boneroom that sells pretty much any human bone you could possibly want (for a steep price).

 

I'm not pro-bone but it's good to hear there are no laws on the books. I always find it interesting how threads of this type bring out the self-policing types that like to strike fear in everyone. "You must not deviate from the rules!" said in shrill tones.

 

Rules be damned, I say. Except in traffic!

[Edwaroth]

Sounds like something some Nazi doctor may have done...sick...

[79spitfire]

Being an organ donor, I can honestly say I'm not sure I care what someone does with the leftovers, for me their just 'stuff' and as long as my family isn't offended, have at it! Pay them some money for the materials, I won't be using them anymore, I'll be out circling some great world somewhere else, or I'll be onto my next life...(think I'll be a bear, no one messes with bears, I just have to be smart enough to dodge bullets...)

Edited January 1, 2014 by 79spitfire

[ScottT]

Now, here's a few points that have been brought up, but I'd just like to add my 2 cents.

1: If you were to make a pen, how would you know that you were not disrespecting the individual from whom the bone came from? Especially if you didn't know the person when they were alive, and they didn't explicitly tell you, how could you know exactly if the bone was ethically sourced? I too, am in medical school, and I have handled human bones and while there was a box of them leased to me, and I can tell you that there isn't much bone available to make much of a pen if it was made in one solid piece. I also know that many medical schools' bone collections are very old, and have been sourced from grave robbers. There was a thriving blackmarket for bodies that has fallen by the wayside, but even so, the origins of the bones seemed dubious at best. I can tell you that I didn't get a complete set of anything, and that none of the bones in my bone box were from a different individual.

 

 

This is a bit confusing to me, as if the bones you and your colleagues study are sourced from grave robbers, isn't the same question relevant to you? You cannot tell you are not 'disrespecting' the disturbed remains of some poor soul, as if they are buried, chances are they weren't keen on the idea of being handled afterwards...

 

While there are many ideas and opinions being bandied about, my own opinion is thus: while not something that would interest me, if you are not harming anyone, and can come by the bone honestly (the source either previously said ok or made some notation that they did not care about the treatment of their remains) have at it.

 

Too many people are quick with the banhammer...they do not like something, so "let's make it illegal" because it somehow offends..

Edited January 1, 2014 by ScottT