What Is The Most Fade-Resistant Erasable Blue Ink?

[Kira]

I am a student and I’ve been using a Parker Frontier fountain pen with Quink Washable Blue ever since we were asked to use fountain pens whilst learning to write in primary school (in the UK).

 

However, I did a lot of research on this site and am concerned that Quink Washable Blue fades over time. My research told me that all water-based dye fountain pen inks fade over time, and the only non-fading fountain pen inks are carbon-based inks (not for me as high maintenance, having to flush out the pen after a few days of not using it) and Noodler’s Eternal and Bulletproof inks (not for me as they do not come in cartridges).

 

I have experienced this fading occasionally in some of my older notes from secondary school when I wrote in exercise books, but mostly my writing was fine. I now almost exclusively use ‘Pukka Pad jotta’ 80GSM ‘premium quality’ paper, in pads of 200 sheets, and put all my work in plastic sleeves. I am obsessed with neatness and writing perfectly. I take care of my work; all work gets filed away properly and I like to work in my room with my curtains eternally closed, so most of the light in my room is artificial light. But I do like to work at a fairly humid temperature (27.6 degrees Celsius at present (that's 81.68 degrees Fahrenheit).

 

From a practical perspective, I probably will have no issues with fading. I imagine using plastic sleeves helps to protect the ink, too. I would just like to think that when I write something down, it lasts for as long as possible (for all intents and purposes, lasts ‘forever’). I would like to think (although I probably will never will do this) that if I got my schoolwork out in 60 years’ time (think positive!), that I would still be able to read it. That is why this bugs me.

 

So my ideal ink would be:

 

1) Blue. (I just think blue writing is far more welcoming than black.) I am willing to try other shades of blue, but am perfectly happy with the colour of Quink Washable Blue. I would be perfectly happy with an ink essentially identical to Quink Washable Blue, just more fade resistant.

 

2) Comes in cartridges. (Despite being much cheaper, using bottled ink is just too inconvenient for me.)

 

3) Very low maintenance. (I only ever want to have to flush out my pen or squeeze the ink cartridge to get it working again at the end of a holiday period.) I want a pen I can rely on to just work.

 

4) Non-feathering on ‘Pukka Pad jotta’ 80GSM ‘premium quality’ paper. Ideally, it should not feather if I hold the nib stationary on the paper for a second or two.

 

5) Erasable with ink erasers (ink eradicators). (I hate crossing out my work, and believe I make a few too many mistakes for only using correction fluid (Tipp-Ex/Snopake/etc.).) From my research on this site, I believe this means the ink has to be royal blue, and that most European blue inks are erasable, but only some American blue inks are.

 

6) As fade resistant as possible.

 

Things I am not so bothered about:

 

1) Drying times. (I am not the type of person who smudges their work accidentally.)

 

2) Accidents. (I am not the type of person to spill a drink on work or to drop my work in a puddle.)

 

3) Ink bleeding through the paper. (I tend to only write on one side anyway, as I like to be able to see what I have just written on the last side as I write.)

 

4) Performance on papers other than 80GSM paper Pukka Pad jotta paper. I am fine with feathering issues on cheap paper, as I do not use them.

 

5) Darkness of ink. I like Quink Washable Blue, and my research on this forum tells me it is on the lighter end of the blue spectrum. This is not to say I would not be open to trying darker inks, however; just that I have no issues with lighter ink colours.

 

6) Cost.

 

I really like my Parker Frontier, so if I had to switch pens to achieve the perfect ink for me (seeing as Parker pens use proprietary cartridges), I would be looking for a similarly designed pen and nib. Any suggestions for fountain pens that are similar in look to the Parker Frontier? I have multiple Parker Frontiers in resin and full metal; it is more the shape of the pen barrel and nib that I would like to be similar. I like to write in a wide line (about 0.8mm at a guess), and always post my caps.

 

So should I stay with Quink Washable Blue, or is there a significantly better alternative for me?

[DanF]

Most inks that fade do so only if exposed to light for long periods of time. Therefore, your work should be safe for years to come if in a notebook. There are a few that will fade in the dark, but I'm not sure which ones.

 

I would consider using Pelikan Royal Blue, because the Pelican eradicator has a fine tip on the other end that matches Royal Blue for doing the correction with. Once treated, you can't go back and correct with the fountain pen, because the ink will just disappear again. I tried it with Waterman Florida Blue, and it's close, but not an exact match. An email to Pelican should tell you if it's safe for your purposes.

 

My other suggestion is to work on getting over your "obsession" about writing perfectly. Teachers are more concerned with the thought behind the writing rather than how the writing looks. Not to say that you shouldn't use the eradicator, but try to give yourself a break - it will save a lot of time and anxiety.

[Jerome Tarshis]

My own experience, and the experience of several people I know, suggests that exposure to light is only one reason why blue inks will fade. Another reason, and in recent decades it has become a major reason, is lower quality of paper. I have notebook entries dating back to the 1980s in blue ink that hasn't faded. More recently, the same brand of notebook will be made with paper having too much bleach in it, and the bleach will cause my writing to fade while the notebook remains closed. If I want my writing to last for even a short time, I don't write with royal blue ink. (Except Bril, which I cannot easily obtain.) I make my own blue-black by adding black ink to blue, or I use black ink.

 

About the notebooks referred to in the original post I claim no knowledge, so it may be that chemically-caused fading is not an issue. With quite a few kinds of cheap paper it is.

[Laura N]

I'm impressed that you have researched and thought about this enough to know exactly what you want, but I don't think the technology is quite there yet. To my knowledge, washable inks aren't guaranteed permanent. I'm just not sure, as a user of all of them, that Waterman Serenity Blue or Lamy Blue or Pelikan Royal Blue are any more fade-resistant, such that it would be worth changing your pen.

 

By the way, I've not noted any problems when I come across things I wrote in the 1980s, 1990s or early 2000s, using Waterman washable blue or Lamy blue on any random paper. But things change, and you never know.

 

I think you need to decide what aspect is most important to you. If the most important thing is erasability, then keep doing what you're doing. If you can compromise on erasability, because permanence is most important, then I'd suggest a Nano or Carbon ink from Sailor or Platinum, which come in cartridges but would require you to switch pens. Those inks aren't low maintenance; you might have to empty and clean your pen before long vacations, but that really isn't difficult or time-consuming.

 

I studied history in college and did a lot of research on documents that were hundreds of years old. All legible by the way. That experience leads me to be skeptical of the need for special permanent inks for general writing. But it also taught me that the best guarantee of permanence is redundancy. So, perhaps tackle this another way. Stick with your routine but make redundant copies. Either photocopy or scan any important pages, or even just snap a photo with your cellphone. That way, whether your ink fades, or your notebook is lost or misplaced, you'll still have another copy of the pages that are really important.

[myn]

It seems like any suggestions I could make only meet some of your requirements. Perhaps the best solution regarding mistakes is to carry a Pelikan "eradicator" that removes the blue ink error and provides a blue ink at the other end of it that will not be hidden by the eradicating fluid to make your correction with. See here: http://blog.shopwritersbloc.com/ink/ for a much better explanation. Seems like a lot of work for a few mistakes. In my day none of this kind of stuff existed and a single straight line through an error was the proper way to correct it for the teacher.

 

My preference would be more towards non cartridge solutions, such as an eyedropper pen that carries tons of ink. Heck my Platinum Preppy converted to an eyedropper cost me a whopping $5.00 total, writes very well, keeps up with speed writing and sketching. As for cost of blue inks in a bottle, Diamine Registrar's Blue/Black is 100ml for around $25.00 and would last you forever, especially if you decided to save your old cartridges and use a syringe to refill them. I know you want fast but it really only takes about 2 minutes to flush a pen if you are changing ink colours. The Diamine Registrar's and some of the Noodler's inks give you permanency.

[welch]

Try Aurora Blue, if you want cartridges, or Quink permanent blue if the cartridges are available in the UK. Use anything you want, almost, if you have a converter for your Frontier. I grew up using a Parker 45: my daily routine was to fill the converter with Sheaffer Skrip Washable Black (or blue-black?), but to carry a couple of Parker cartridges in case. I never needed them. Using a converter, you have a choice of more blue inks than you will ever sample or need. Just Diamine -- to mention the great ink-maker from the UK -- has more varieties of blue than you could use in a lifetime.

 

Generally, as Jerome suggests, put your writing in a binder or a folder. Inks will bleach-out in sunlight.

 

Quink washable blue fades as it dries, but I don't know if it changes much once dry.

[inkstainedruth]

Another suggestion (if you don't want to forego the cartridge route altogther) is to refill empty cartridges with a syringe with a blunted needle -- I have a Parker Vector and an Urban, so I understand the issue with proprietary cartridges (although I'm not familiar with the Frontier); I also have a vintage 45 with the squeeze converter, which I gather I could also use cartridges with. After the cartridge is refilled, seal off the end -- some people use hot glue guns, but I buy 100% silicone grout, which stays flexible even after it has cured.

Of course, I have mostly switched over to converters, so I have a wider range of inks to play with -- I do have some Permanent Blue cartridges (that I'm sort of hoarding), to keep for emergencies.

I also understand the issues with Quink Washable Blue -- but it's very difficult to get the Permanent Blue (either cartridges or bottles) in the US.

I'm afraid that I can't give you suggestions about specific inks to try (and have no experience with the Pelikan eradicator stuff).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Kira]

  On 9/4/2012 at 7:24 AM, DanF said:

Most inks that fade do so only if exposed to light for long periods of time. Therefore, your work should be safe for years to come if in a notebook. There are a few that will fade in the dark, but I'm not sure which ones.

 

I would consider using Pelikan Royal Blue, because the Pelican eradicator has a fine tip on the other end that matches Royal Blue for doing the correction with. Once treated, you can't go back and correct with the fountain pen, because the ink will just disappear again. I tried it with Waterman Florida Blue, and it's close, but not an exact match. An email to Pelican should tell you if it's safe for your purposes.

 

My other suggestion is to work on getting over your "obsession" about writing perfectly. Teachers are more concerned with the thought behind the writing rather than how the writing looks. Not to say that you shouldn't use the eradicator, but try to give yourself a break - it will save a lot of time and anxiety.

 

Thanks for your reply. I have experimented with ink erasers and found a cheap store one that erases Quink Washable Blue well, with a corrector pen that does not feather if you don't bother to wait for the 'bleach' (I have no idea whether it is bleach) to dry. I'm not so obsessed as to need an absolutely perfect match. Do you know whether the Pelikan Royal Blue more fade-resistant? That would be the reason I would switch to using it if that were the case.

 

I have long thought about just deliberately writing scruffy. At secondary school, it helped me to stand out, and thus was a benefit, but at college this is not really the case any more. But I have been writing neatly for so many years now that I have got fairly fast at it (fast enough for study purposes). I write scruffy when I need to (i.e. exams and lecture notes), but for study you could argue it is beneficial, as it means you spend longer on a piece of information before moving on, and I would assume that this aids retention of information. I also believe that neatness and presentation may elevate my enjoyment of study, which is always a plus, and that notes written neatly are more likely to be read more often. But yeah, I am looking for a proper compromise. Being a perfectionist is always about managing the obsession.

[Kira]

  On 9/4/2012 at 8:26 AM, Jerome Tarshis said:

My own experience, and the experience of several people I know, suggests that exposure to light is only one reason why blue inks will fade. Another reason, and in recent decades it has become a major reason, is lower quality of paper. I have notebook entries dating back to the 1980s in blue ink that hasn't faded. More recently, the same brand of notebook will be made with paper having too much bleach in it, and the bleach will cause my writing to fade while the notebook remains closed. If I want my writing to last for even a short time, I don't write with royal blue ink. (Except Bril, which I cannot easily obtain.) I make my own blue-black by adding black ink to blue, or I use black ink.

 

About the notebooks referred to in the original post I claim no knowledge, so it may be that chemically-caused fading is not an issue. With quite a few kinds of cheap paper it is.

 

Thanks for your reply. The paper I use is probably the cheapest high quality paper I can find; I would imagine that if the beach content was high then that chemical reaction would happen rather quickly (especially in my room which sometimes reaches sauna-like 30 degrees plus), and thus that I would have noticed it by now if that were the case; I have been using this paper for three years now and noticed no fading. I like thick, fibrous papers (where you write into the paper, rather than on top of it), so I doubt I would like high quality thin papers like those that I believe are used in Moleskines (I haven't tried them, though). I remember mentions about Clairfontaine paper on this site, but I imagine that that is quite thin paper too. I used to use WH Smith 70GSM refill pads, which I used at GCSE, and when revising five years' worth of notes (all in plastic sleeves), I noticed no fading. I am hoping that will remain true with these Pukka pads that I now use. I switched because the Pukka Pads are ring-bound, so I can write directly into them rather than tearing out a page to write on, and are more heavy duty, so I can carry the pads loose in my bag.

 

I have got used to being able to erase my ink, and have not yet found Tipp-Ex convenient enough, so blue-black ink is unfortunately not an option for me.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Kira

[Kira]

  On 9/4/2012 at 1:59 PM, Laura N said:

I'm impressed that you have researched and thought about this enough to know exactly what you want, but I don't think the technology is quite there yet. To my knowledge, washable inks aren't guaranteed permanent. I'm just not sure, as a user of all of them, that Waterman Serenity Blue or Lamy Blue or Pelikan Royal Blue are any more fade-resistant, such that it would be worth changing your pen.

 

By the way, I've not noted any problems when I come across things I wrote in the 1980s, 1990s or early 2000s, using Waterman washable blue or Lamy blue on any random paper. But things change, and you never know.

 

I think you need to decide what aspect is most important to you. If the most important thing is erasability, then keep doing what you're doing. If you can compromise on erasability, because permanence is most important, then I'd suggest a Nano or Carbon ink from Sailor or Platinum, which come in cartridges but would require you to switch pens. Those inks aren't low maintenance; you might have to empty and clean your pen before long vacations, but that really isn't difficult or time-consuming.

 

I studied history in college and did a lot of research on documents that were hundreds of years old. All legible by the way. That experience leads me to be skeptical of the need for special permanent inks for general writing. But it also taught me that the best guarantee of permanence is redundancy. So, perhaps tackle this another way. Stick with your routine but make redundant copies. Either photocopy or scan any important pages, or even just snap a photo with your cellphone. That way, whether your ink fades, or your notebook is lost or misplaced, you'll still have another copy of the pages that are really important.

 

Thanks for your reply. I read somewhere on this site that the Waterman blue ink was essentially the same as the Quink blue, but I can't remember whether the comparison was referring to the washable kinds.

 

I imagine that unless I set myself a reminder on my phone, I would forget to wash out carbon inks from my pens before holidays; it just seems like too much of an inconvenience (I would probably choose a rollerball over this method; it would be much cheaper, too). I thought you had to wash out your pen after two or three days of inactivity though; you seem to be suggesting that you could get away with leaving the ink in your pens for longer than that?

 

Were those hundread year old documents in iron gall ink, though? I read that that ink was the main ink used in 'recent' history, and is well known to be highly permanent (although over hundreads of years its acidity destroys the paper). What I was thinking of doing is continuing using washable blues for general writing, but using an archival pigment ink ballpoint (e.g. Uniball Vision Elite or Gel Impact) for important pages. The only issue I have with that is not using fountain pens for the most important stuff.

[Laura N]

1. I use both Waterman blue and Quink washable blue. They aren't the same ink for me. Both are very nice, however.

 

2. Well, I don't have much use for black ink, so I only use carbon ink in one pen, so bear in mind that I'm no expert. I'd check the reviews on Platinum carbon ink for more informed opinions. But with my pen, a Platinum Carbon desk pen that cost $13, there's been no problem leaving carbon ink unused for days. I would not leave it unused for months, I think.

 

So worry not, you do not have to wash out any pen after just two or three days of inactivity. I'll try to pm you later with more detailed information. Your instincts are correct, though, that washable blue ink can be left for a longer time without fear. I found an old Waterman filled with Waterman blue that I hadn't used for over a decade. It cleaned out with just a regular flush of water.

 

3. I have no idea what the documents I used to research were written with, but many were from the 1620s and 1630s. The media looked more fragile than the ink. But I've seen family writings from the 1920s on, most of which were written with dye-based fountain pen ink, on regular paper, and were given no special care. Those were perfectly preserved. Which is no guarantee for the future, but leaves me less worried.

 

4. Excellent idea to use gel pens. I always hesitate to recommend them here, but I love them.

[Kira]

  On 9/4/2012 at 3:31 PM, myn said:

It seems like any suggestions I could make only meet some of your requirements. Perhaps the best solution regarding mistakes is to carry a Pelikan "eradicator" that removes the blue ink error and provides a blue ink at the other end of it that will not be hidden by the eradicating fluid to make your correction with. See here: http://blog.shopwritersbloc.com/ink/ for a much better explanation. Seems like a lot of work for a few mistakes. In my day none of this kind of stuff existed and a single straight line through an error was the proper way to correct it for the teacher.

 

My preference would be more towards non cartridge solutions, such as an eyedropper pen that carries tons of ink. Heck my Platinum Preppy converted to an eyedropper cost me a whopping $5.00 total, writes very well, keeps up with speed writing and sketching. As for cost of blue inks in a bottle, Diamine Registrar's Blue/Black is 100ml for around $25.00 and would last you forever, especially if you decided to save your old cartridges and use a syringe to refill them. I know you want fast but it really only takes about 2 minutes to flush a pen if you are changing ink colours. The Diamine Registrar's and some of the Noodler's inks give you permanency.

 

Thats for the reply. I have used ink eradicator pens for so many years that using them is like second nature. I find them far more convenient than correction fluid. They really take no effort at all. It must be a European thing; I think everyone over here (UK) knows what these ink eraser pens are. I hate just crossing out my work; I just like my work to look neat, and to not see errors if it can at all be avoided.

 

Thank you so much for that link; it was hugely beneficial. One thing I never liked about the sandard size ink cartridges was how small they were. It seemed like a stupid size to standardise to. From the size perspective, I am thus really liking the Pelikan 4001 Giant Royal Blue Ink Cartridges. Having a tailor-made ink eradicator is a plus too. If I did switch to standardised ink cartridges, I would probably switch to a cheaper Waterman fountain pen. I have not done much research on fountain pens, but they seem fairly similar to cheaper Parker fountain pens; nothing too fancy. However, there would only be point to doing this if the Pelikan Royal Blue ink is more fade resistant that Parker's Quink Washable Blue; does anyone know?

 

I am very wary about converting a pen into an eyedropper, as I do occasionally absent-mindedly take my pen apart. Syringe-filling cartridges is not the answer for me. I have no issues with paying the additional cost for the convenience of cartridges. Diamine Registrar's ink is, I believe iron gall-based, and although I know it only happens over hundreds of years, I would not like to write with something I know will damage the paper. Noodler's ink would be ideal if it came in cartridges... I am also yet to find a way to buy Noodler's ink from UK suppliers, otherwise I may get a bottle of a bulletproof or eternal blue of theirs to play with it. Do you know which Noodler's bulletproof or eternal ink would look most like Quink Washable Blue? I realise these Noodler's inks would not be erasable, but it would help me having to resort to using Uniball pigment ink rollerballs for important documents.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Kira

[Kira]

  On 9/4/2012 at 3:37 PM, welch said:

Try Aurora Blue, if you want cartridges, or Quink permanent blue if the cartridges are available in the UK. Use anything you want, almost, if you have a converter for your Frontier. I grew up using a Parker 45: my daily routine was to fill the converter with Sheaffer Skrip Washable Black (or blue-black?), but to carry a couple of Parker cartridges in case. I never needed them. Using a converter, you have a choice of more blue inks than you will ever sample or need. Just Diamine -- to mention the great ink-maker from the UK -- has more varieties of blue than you could use in a lifetime.

 

Generally, as Jerome suggests, put your writing in a binder or a folder. Inks will bleach-out in sunlight.

 

Quink washable blue fades as it dries, but I don't know if it changes much once dry.

 

I have heard that Quink permanent blue fades to a a teal colour after several seconds, and that the 'permanent' label refers to ability to wash out of clothes rather than permanence on paper. I have some old permanent blue cartidges, which seem to fade to teal. But they also erase with my ink eraser, so I am not sure whether these are just old Quink washable blue cartridges that I have simply put in a permanent blue box. Based on the alleged teal colour and the fact that 'permanent' blue is still not really permanent on paper, I do not see much reason to switch to this.

 

I did look into Aurora blue ink cartridges when I found out that they fit Parker pens. Their blue ink looks fine. I just do not know how fade-resistant it is. Any experience? This would be a convenient solution if they are fade-resistant.

 

I really like that idea of filling up the pen at home and then carrying some ink cartridges around just in case. But inevitably I am sure I would forget to refill the pen, unless I set myself a daily reminder specifically for this on my phone. It just seems like a step too far... It would probably have to be a Noodler's Bulletproof or Eternal blue ink for me to justify that amount of effort.

 

Oh, and thanks for mentioning that Diamine is British; I did not know that.

[Renfield]

  On 9/4/2012 at 12:08 AM, Kira said:

 

I have experienced this fading occasionally in some of my older notes from secondary school when I wrote in exercise books, but mostly my writing was fine. I now almost exclusively use ‘Pukka Pad jotta’ 80GSM ‘premium quality’ paper, in pads of 200 sheets, and put all my work in plastic sleeves. I am obsessed with neatness and writing perfectly. I take care of my work; all work gets filed away properly and I like to work in my room with my curtains eternally closed, so most of the light in my room is artificial light. But I do like to work at a fairly humid temperature (27.6 degrees Celsius at present (that's 81.68 degrees Fahrenheit).

 

 

 

27.6C?!? wow. I am in Belfast, and if my house gets above 20C I am opening windows. Sounds like an oven temperature to me!

 

You can order noodlers ink in the UK from here . I bought a 3 Oz bottle from them of bulletproof black for £12.50 (Free P&P if you spend over £20, so I added 3 30ml sample bottles of Diamine at £2.67 each to qualify)

 

No affiliation, I just used them once, fast delivery.

[Kira]

  On 9/4/2012 at 7:24 PM, Laura N said:

1. I use both Waterman blue and Quink washable blue. They aren't the same ink for me. Both are very nice, however.

 

2. Well, I don't have much use for black ink, so I only use carbon ink in one pen, so bear in mind that I'm no expert. I'd check the reviews on Platinum carbon ink for more informed opinions. But with my pen, a Platinum Carbon desk pen that cost $13, there's been no problem leaving carbon ink unused for days. I would not leave it unused for months, I think.

 

So worry not, you do not have to wash out any pen after just two or three days of inactivity. I'll try to pm you later with more detailed information. Your instincts are correct, though, that washable blue ink can be left for a longer time without fear. I found an old Waterman filled with Waterman blue that I hadn't used for over a decade. It cleaned out with just a regular flush of water.

 

3. I have no idea what the documents I used to research were written with, but many were from the 1620s and 1630s. The media looked more fragile than the ink. But I've seen family writings from the 1920s on, most of which were written with dye-based fountain pen ink, on regular paper, and were given no special care. Those were perfectly preserved. Which is no guarantee for the future, but leaves me less worried.

 

4. Excellent idea to use gel pens. I always hesitate to recommend them here, but I love them.

 

Thank you so much for replying again. I am starting to feel like I have got myself overly worked up about this permanence thing, and that I should just carry on doing what has worked so well for the last decade and a half for me. After all, this desire for permanence is more a desire than a necessity, and compromising in order to achieve more permanence might be more damaging in other ways.

 

Thank you for the information about your family writings in foutain pens. That gives me much more confidence. I have also read elsewhere on this forum about someone who had Quink Washable Blue writings (I really did get obsessive with this research...) from the 1970s which were still fine; he just pointed out that he did not expose them to sunlight etc. which of course I do not do either. Also thanks for your information on your own writings in 'Waterman washable blue or Lamy blue on any random paper'. I would imagine that these inks would have a similar performance to Parker's mass-produced Quink range, as I think they are aimed at similar audiences, especially Lamy and Quink.

 

I do sometimes leave ink in my pens unused for months over the holidays. It is just not something I think about. Usually this just means the ink cartidge ends up empty (evaporation?) and I just stick a new one in, and squeeze until the ink almost drops off the nib, and repeat this until ink flows again. I am really reluctant to make using a pen any more inconvenient than it needs to be. My current system seems to be the ultimate compromise: use of a fountain pen to reduce writing fatigue and encourage writing for long periods of time, but cartridges to avoid unnecessary hassle, with erasable ink for the ultimate convenience. I have loads of these Quink Washable Blue cartidges lying around; expense is not an issue, and in the short term is non-existent.

 

I would probably not use the carbon inks, simply because they are black. I just think blue is a much more welcoming writing colour. Do you Quink Washable Blue/Waterman for general writing, and the carbon ink for things that you want or require to have more permanence? I might do what you seem to do and use it in a separate pen just for permanent documents. But then the issue is that I might only use it once in a blue moon, only to find that the carbon clogged up the pen in the meantime. Rollerball seems the more convenient solution, even though I would prefer to write 'high-calibre' documents in a 'high-calibre' pen, i.e. a fountain pen. I wonder whether Uniball archival pigment ink refills would fit in a Parker Frontier rollerball... Maybe that would be a nice elegant solution, if indeed it is possible.

 

I have also heard that pencil is the most archival solution, and their erasability is highly convenient too. If I wanted black I would probably consider pencil far more seriously. But writing in pencil nowhere near as fatigue-free as a fountain pen, at least in the styles of writing that I like to use.

[FPFan]

I'm not even going to enter into the debate about carbon inks, as I really like using both Platinum and Sailor carbon inks. The Sailor blue/black is a current favorite and I have had no problems with it. Also, pigmented inks do come in other colors besides just black.

 

However, I wanted to make one other point to you about the plastic sleeves you are using to store your work in. 1)You may want to use Archival sleeves if you want to use your work for a very long period of time. That said, 2) Unless you are studying History or other such unchanging events like litereature, I have found that long term retention of most high school or college work will be long out dated before you ever need to refer back to them. Often times as early back as 3-5 years. The only worthwhile value to the documents will be for your personal gratification only. (Just my opinion, I'm sure.)

 

Another point, I have seen comments in some other topics that there are those who have said that "carbon" inks are not as long lasting as iron gall inks. That is another issue I can't comment directly about as I have only been using carbon inks for less than ten years.

 

As for your use of ink eradicators, I personally, from an archival perspective would not use them. My training in archival processes would limit my use of any product that was capable of disolving an ink solution of any kind. You are inviting decay in not only the ink, but in the paper, too. As stated above, a clean single line drawn through the writing should be sufficiant for most hand written documentation. (Even on official documents. (US Military specific.)

 

Whatever you decide to do, I wish you good luck.

 

However, historically (personal perspective) there is so little evidence that your writting will survive past you own lifetime. Unless you obtain some really historical heighth in your career or your children value what you have written. I know mine won't last much past my death. And even at that there will most likely be some fading in journals kept in the 60' and 70's when I wasn't overly particular about what ink I used.

[Kira]

  On 9/4/2012 at 9:24 PM, Renfield said:

  On 9/4/2012 at 12:08 AM, Kira said:

 

I have experienced this fading occasionally in some of my older notes from secondary school when I wrote in exercise books, but mostly my writing was fine. I now almost exclusively use ‘Pukka Pad jotta’ 80GSM ‘premium quality’ paper, in pads of 200 sheets, and put all my work in plastic sleeves. I am obsessed with neatness and writing perfectly. I take care of my work; all work gets filed away properly and I like to work in my room with my curtains eternally closed, so most of the light in my room is artificial light. But I do like to work at a fairly humid temperature (27.6 degrees Celsius at present (that's 81.68 degrees Fahrenheit).

 

 

 

27.6C?!? wow. I am in Belfast, and if my house gets above 20C I am opening windows. Sounds like an oven temperature to me!

 

You can order noodlers ink in the UK from here . I bought a 3 Oz bottle from them of bulletproof black for £12.50 (Free P&P if you spend over £20, so I added 3 30ml sample bottles of Diamine at £2.67 each to qualify)

 

No affiliation, I just used them once, fast delivery.

 

lol I am not sure why but my room is always much hotter than the rest of the house; I like it though!

 

Thanks a lot for the link. They do not seem to have many blue bulletproof/eternal inks in stock at the moment (really looking for Luxury Blue or Baystate Blue to get one vaguely resembling Quink Washable Blue), but I will keep an eye on that site. Thanks!

 

I was also thinking of looking on eBay or the marketplace sellers on Amazon.

[Kira]

  On 9/4/2012 at 10:51 PM, FPFan said:

I'm not even going to enter into the debate about carbon inks, as I really like using both Platinum and Sailor carbon inks. The Sailor blue/black is a current favorite and I have had no problems with it. Also, pigmented inks do come in other colors besides just black.

 

However, I wanted to make one other point to you about the plastic sleeves you are using to store your work in. 1)You may want to use Archival sleeves if you want to use your work for a very long period of time. That said, 2) Unless you are studying History or other such unchanging events like litereature, I have found that long term retention of most high school or college work will be long out dated before you ever need to refer back to them. Often times as early back as 3-5 years. The only worthwhile value to the documents will be for your personal gratification only. (Just my opinion, I'm sure.)

 

Another point, I have seen comments in some other topics that there are those who have said that "carbon" inks are not as long lasting as iron gall inks. That is another issue I can't comment directly about as I have only been using carbon inks for less than ten years.

 

As for your use of ink eradicators, I personally, from an archival perspective would not use them. My training in archival processes would limit my use of any product that was capable of disolving an ink solution of any kind. You are inviting decay in not only the ink, but in the paper, too. As stated above, a clean single line drawn through the writing should be sufficiant for most hand written documentation. (Even on official documents. (US Military specific.)

 

Whatever you decide to do, I wish you good luck.

 

However, historically (personal perspective) there is so little evidence that your writting will survive past you own lifetime. Unless you obtain some really historical heighth in your career or your children value what you have written. I know mine won't last much past my death. And even at that there will most likely be some fading in journals kept in the 60' and 70's when I wasn't overly particular about what ink I used.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Thanks for reminding me that pigment inks come in blue-black.

 

These are all very valid points.

 

1) I am not particularly bothered about the plastic sleeves disintegrating. They can just be replaced if need be.

 

2) I also agree that I will probably not be referring back to this work much past five years at a push. You are helping convince me I've become too obsessed over this.

 

3) Iron gall inks are acidic and disintegrate the paper, so I would never be happy using them (even if this only happens after hundreads of years). I have heard from multiple sources that pencil is the most archival writing form. My probably completely unscientific/wrong deduction: pencil is made from graphite, graphite is made from sheets of carbon atoms, so if pencil is carbon, diamond is carbon, why would carbon inks not also last a long time. But as I said this I do not know how much truth there is in my abstract reasoning.

 

4) Yeah I agree with this too. But I do not like to just cross out my work; I don't want to be able to see my mistakes. I think I make too many mistakes to reoly exclusively on correction fluid, and ink erasers are far more convenient. You are helping me to convince myself that I should sacrifice this recent obsession with longevity in favour of the system of convenience that up to this point has served me very well.

 

5) This is very true. And writings can just get scanned onto the computer anyway if I do end up thinking I will need them for longer and they have started to fade. It sounds like I should be focussed on other things rather than the quality of ink I use!

[myn]

You may find this discussion on the iron-gall inks quite interesting.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/226717-archival-qualities-of-iron-gall-inks/

 

There seems to be a general consensus that the modern day iron-gall inks do not use sulphuric acid but rather hydrochloric acid so that you do not get the volatile acid reaction. Diamine Registrar's Blue/Black should be quite safe. It certainly would be easy enough to check out. It is used for official government documents that last for centuries.

 

Also you might find something to your taste by looking through the myriad of sample colours that Goulet Pens has on their website. It is a great source for deciding what you might like, what is closest to what you are using, as well as perhaps finding something from a manufacturer whose colour of blue you really like. You can chose to select by colour or ink property. As well some of the ink manufacturers shown here also make cartridges. It's just a great resource.

 

 

http://www.gouletpens.com/Ink_s/1198.htm

[amberleadavis]

Unfortunately, I can tell you first hand that fading happens quicker than you might think. I also agree that finding erasable and fade resistant AND low maintenance is difficult.

 

If you find an ink that might work for you, look at some of the fade tests.

 

Here are some of mine, when you look at the tests, look for links to the tests of others.

 

Summer 2012 - very few results are posted as of today.

 

Experiment 1 - Final results are also posted.

 

Experiment 2- Still in progress.

 

 

 

Without a doubt, Noodler's KTC was the most fade proof. But definitely not cartridges.