Pelikan 100 Or 100N And M800

[senor47]

Hello,

 

Many Pelikan people here on the FPN appear to love the 100(100N) and the M800(old-style & modern) a great deal. Yet, I never see a comparison between both of these great pens.

So, to the Pelikan followers, especially the ones that own both, which is the Pelikan to buy? Which is excellent for general writing and mathematics? I have large hands if it matters. I like to post my pens, but if it is not possible for some reason, its ok. I also have a Lamy Safari, Parker 51, and Namiki Falcon. They feel great in my hands so if this helps in "narrowing" things down...great!

 

 

Thanks to those who answer this question(s).

[Tuxedomoon]

Pelikan 100 & 100N are vintage pens

Pelikan M800 is a modern pen

 

Pelikan 100 & 100N are small pens

Pelikan M800 is a big pen

 

Unfortunately I don't own a M800, so I can't compare. But the M800 should hold more ink while the vintages have the nicer nibs (in general).

Edited November 14, 2011 by Tuxedomoon

[Hasuran]

I have M800. Unlike M600, I think the nibs of M800 are also good, both modern and old-style. Especially if you can find the old-style 14c nib, that's truly excellent.

 

The M800 has brass piston, so the balance may different. But mine is Charlotte of CP6, which has a sterling silver barrel, so I can't tell how it is different.

Edited November 14, 2011 by Hasuran

[senor47]

I have M800. Unlike M600, I think the nibs of M800 are also good, both modern and old-style. Especially if you can find the old-style 14c nib, that's truly excellent.

 

The M800 has brass piston, so the balance may different. But mine is Charlotte of CP6, which has a sterling silver barrel, so I can't tell how it is different.

 

Do you like the M600 as much as the M800? Is there a difference in the "feel" of the nibs? Is it just the heft and size that differs the M800 from the M600? I assume that one could easily enjoy both of these wondeful modern Pels, and the only thing would be the dimensions.

 

Thanks!

[Hasuran]

I have M800. Unlike M600, I think the nibs of M800 are also good, both modern and old-style. Especially if you can find the old-style 14c nib, that's truly excellent.

 

The M800 has brass piston, so the balance may different. But mine is Charlotte of CP6, which has a sterling silver barrel, so I can't tell how it is different.

 

Do you like the M600 as much as the M800? Is there a difference in the "feel" of the nibs? Is it just the heft and size that differs the M800 from the M600? I assume that one could easily enjoy both of these wondeful modern Pels, and the only thing would be the dimensions.

 

Thanks!

 

Well, personally, I prefer M800. I think the nibs of M800 is pleasantly harder than M600. Yes, M800 is heavier than M600, not only because of it has a larger size, but also coz that the piston of M800 is brass rather than M600's plastic.

[jgrasty]

I have a Pelikan 100 and three M800 pens, and these pens are very different. The Pelikan 100 is a much smaller and lighter pen than the M800. My Pelikan 100 has a wonderfully expressive semi-flex CN nib, the M800 has stiff 18k nibs. The M800 balances differently due to the brass piston mechanism. I like both pens, but use the 100 much more frequently than the three M800 pens, mostly due to my preference for the classic size of the 100. I'm more likely to buy a 100 / 100N or variant than another M800, but everyone has a preference and yours might be the M800.

 

As for ink capacity, there's really not much of a difference. Both hold a lot of ink compared to most pens made today that use cartridges or cartridge converters.

Edited November 15, 2011 by jgrasty

[senor47]

I have a Pelikan 100 and three M800 pens, and these pens are very different. The Pelikan 100 is a much smaller and lighter pen than the M800. My Pelikan 100 has a wonderfully expressive semi-flex CN nib, the M800 has stiff 18k nibs. The M800 balances differently due to the brass piston mechanism. I like both pens, but use the 100 much more frequently than the three M800 pens, mostly due to my preference for the classic size of the 100. I'm more likely to buy a 100 / 100N or variant than another M800, but everyone has a preference and yours might be the M800.

 

As for ink capacity, there's really not much of a difference. Both hold a lot of ink compared to most pens made today that use cartridges or cartridge converters.

 

What is meant by "expressive"? Is it great for copper-plate or calligraphic writing? If only general writing such as writing letters or mathematics, and rapid notetaking is needed, is such an expressive nib neccessary?

Thanks

[jgrasty]

I have a Pelikan 100 and three M800 pens, and these pens are very different. The Pelikan 100 is a much smaller and lighter pen than the M800. My Pelikan 100 has a wonderfully expressive semi-flex CN nib, the M800 has stiff 18k nibs. The M800 balances differently due to the brass piston mechanism. I like both pens, but use the 100 much more frequently than the three M800 pens, mostly due to my preference for the classic size of the 100. I'm more likely to buy a 100 / 100N or variant than another M800, but everyone has a preference and yours might be the M800.

 

As for ink capacity, there's really not much of a difference. Both hold a lot of ink compared to most pens made today that use cartridges or cartridge converters.

 

What is meant by "expressive"? Is it great for copper-plate or calligraphic writing? If only general writing such as writing letters or mathematics, and rapid notetaking is needed, is such an expressive nib neccessary?

Thanks

 

By expressive, I mean the nib has some character. It isn't flexible enough for copperplate, but it does give your writing some line variation. There's a sample of the nib in the thread Pelikan's Little Secret.

[senor47]

I have a Pelikan 100 and three M800 pens, and these pens are very different. The Pelikan 100 is a much smaller and lighter pen than the M800. My Pelikan 100 has a wonderfully expressive semi-flex CN nib, the M800 has stiff 18k nibs. The M800 balances differently due to the brass piston mechanism. I like both pens, but use the 100 much more frequently than the three M800 pens, mostly due to my preference for the classic size of the 100. I'm more likely to buy a 100 / 100N or variant than another M800, but everyone has a preference and yours might be the M800.

 

As for ink capacity, there's really not much of a difference. Both hold a lot of ink compared to most pens made today that use cartridges or cartridge converters.

 

What is meant by "expressive"? Is it great for copper-plate or calligraphic writing? If only general writing such as writing letters or mathematics, and rapid notetaking is needed, is such an expressive nib neccessary?

Thanks

 

By expressive, I mean the nib has some character. It isn't flexible enough for copperplate, but it does give your writing some line variation. There's a sample of the nib in the thread Pelikan's Little Secret.

 

I see, beautiful. Is the 100's nib buttery smooth eventhough it is a semi-flex? I feel that it being a semi-flex, the nib would slow my writing down and be in a way "scratchy" as the tines would "open".

 

Again, thanks.

[jgrasty]

I have a Pelikan 100 and three M800 pens, and these pens are very different. The Pelikan 100 is a much smaller and lighter pen than the M800. My Pelikan 100 has a wonderfully expressive semi-flex CN nib, the M800 has stiff 18k nibs. The M800 balances differently due to the brass piston mechanism. I like both pens, but use the 100 much more frequently than the three M800 pens, mostly due to my preference for the classic size of the 100. I'm more likely to buy a 100 / 100N or variant than another M800, but everyone has a preference and yours might be the M800.

 

As for ink capacity, there's really not much of a difference. Both hold a lot of ink compared to most pens made today that use cartridges or cartridge converters.

 

What is meant by "expressive"? Is it great for copper-plate or calligraphic writing? If only general writing such as writing letters or mathematics, and rapid notetaking is needed, is such an expressive nib neccessary?

Thanks

 

By expressive, I mean the nib has some character. It isn't flexible enough for copperplate, but it does give your writing some line variation. There's a sample of the nib in the thread Pelikan's Little Secret.

 

I see, beautiful. Is the 100's nib buttery smooth eventhough it is a semi-flex? I feel that it being a semi-flex, the nib would slow my writing down and be in a way "scratchy" as the tines would "open".

 

Again, thanks.

 

The nib is very smooth. You must apply pressure to open the nib; if you don't, it functions just like any ordinary f nib.

[John Cullen]

I am sure you know this, but it is good to remember that if you buy a vintage pen you want to buy from someone who knows pens so that the nib is indeed a good nib.

 

Buying a vintage pen that is not repaired and tested by someone who knows what he or she is doing is, In My Opinion, very risky.

[Bo Bo Olson]

""""I see, beautiful. Is the 100's nib [b]buttery smooth [/b]eventhough it is a semi-flex? I feel that it being a semi-flex, the nib would slow my writing down and be in a way "scratchy" as the tines would "open".""""

 

No!..

 

Second many semi-flex are not buttery smooth as you must know. Other wise you'd not be so sarcastic about it.

 

I do have some real nice and smooth semi-flex nibs but they are not buttery smooth like a Modern Cross Townsend steel nail, a modern Pelikan 605 stiff blobby BB or a modern springy MB B that writes as a BB.

 

As far as I can tell using Mark 1 Eye Ball, vintage nibs are a bit closer to the size, are ground a bit sharper so one gets a cleaner line...they are not ground into a big fat buttery smooth nib.

One gets the line variation built in, no fiddling with wrists and so on.

 

If all you want is a fat buttery smooth nib....take the modern 800 do not waste your time and money looking for a crisper springier '80's 800 nib either.

 

Semi-flex is good for ham fisted writers. All it does is add a bit of flare to your writing. It makes say the pressure at the end stroke of a n, a bit wider and a bit darker.

 

You really got to jack hammer the nib to get it to be as slow as you fear, to open the tines so wide they are going to catch on paper as you press the nib so it busts from trying to do the splits.

 

It is not designed to spread it's tines more than a regular nib....3X just with half the pressure.

 

A maxi-semi-flex/'flexi' nib which you could end up with from a '30's-40's nib could be some thing that slows you down if you are heavy handed.

If you are only somewhat ham fisted, it should not slow you down...

If you write with a normal to light fountain pen hand not at all.

 

I have some 20 semi-flex and some 8 maxi-semi-flex/'flexi' nibs. Some of the 'flexi' nibs were so quite about it, I thought them regular old semi-flex until I found out what 'flexi' nibs were.

If you slow down and draw fancy letters....yep, it will slow you down.

But if you write normal, no. It will give you a tad of nice and fancy with no extra effort.

 

But if you really worry you write so fast that a normal semi-flex can't keep up with you, may I suggest a P-51. There are some manifold nibs from Pelikan too that are D's which is nails.

 

 

I would suggest buying a nice 140 in semi-flex...to see what the fuss is all about before throwing away big money on something you already decided you don't like.

 

I just checked it out...I am faster by at least a quarter word with my P-51 over a run of the mill German '50's semi-flex, when scribbling, "Lets see how fast I can scribble.)

I scribbled so fast only I can read it...but that happens often to me when I scribble fast enough.

 

Have you ever thought of learning short hand?

 

by by, I won't be reading any thing else you write.

Edited November 15, 2011 by Bo Bo Olson

[dcpritch]

Bo Bo and others have done a good job describing nibs in the posts above. It seems like you still have some uncertainty about pen and nib sizes, and a picture is worth at least 1,000 of my words, so here are photos of several Pelikans side by side, from the left (sorry I don't have a 100 to show):

 

1. Pelikan 100N, flexible 14k BB nib (c. 1949 - 1954)
2. Pelikan Souverän M400 Brown Tortoise, 14C M nib (1995)
3. Pelikan Souverän M600, two-tone 18C B nib stubbed by Mike Masuyama (c. 1993 - old style, same size as modern M400)
4. Pelikan Souverän M605, two-tone14C OBB nib (c. 2004)
5. Pelikan Souverän M800, two-tone 18C BB nib ground to OBB by Mottishaw (c. 2008)
6. Pelikan Souverän M1000, two-tone 18C BB stub nib by Oxonian (2010)

 

 

 

 

(Sorry about the shaky photo - a little too much coffee this morning, I'm afraid.)

 

 

 

 

And here's an image showing the pens on a Rhodia A5 pad, so you get the idea of size in relation to something other than pens:

 

Edited November 15, 2011 by dcpritch

[WOBentley]

Nice Collection DC! Love that 605, and darn it I may now have to add a 100N to my collection as I do not currently have one!

The 1000 is a BIG pen, not the size of some of the gargantuan Indian eyedroppers, but a very large pen to most folks. The 800 is closer to the size of a TWSBI pen. The 600's are considered "standard" size pens with the 400's 200's and 100's being smaller.

As to nibs, the flex/springiness is more a characteristic of the vintage nibs but the M1000 has a very large springy feeling nib but not usually any real flex. If I were to choose I would worry more about the nib and less about the pen, unless the size of a pen makes a huge difference to you. Both of your choices will hold adequate ink. I have recently been enjoying my vintage nibs a lot so I would go for a nice 100N with some flex...but that is me...and I am going to blame DC when my wife asks

[dcpritch]

... recently been enjoying my vintage nibs a lot so I would go for a nice 100N with some flex...but that is me...and I am going to blame DC when my wife asks

 

Hey, WO, blame away! But I have to say I've done the same thing and usually find it less effective than simply having pens delivered to my office.

 

And your comment (thanks for the compliment, too) made me want to put some ink into that 100N, which I haven't done for awhile, so I found some age-appropriate vintage ink and am immediately reminded how much I love this pen! Here are a couple of iPhone photos:

 

 

 

This nib is not glass smooth like a modern Sailor nib, for example, but gives nice feedback and works great at faster speeds (usually how I write), and then at slower speeds when you want to add some character to the writing it will give tons of flex. Plus the stubbish nature of this BB nib gives great line variation even without adding flex.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I consider the 200/400 standard like a Esterbrook DJ. A 600/605 is a medium large pen like a 400NN...not quite as large as a medium large P-51 but close.

 

In that I grew up in the day of standard pen; there was an occasional medium large pens like the P-51... I can't think of any Large pens...the MB 146 was then a medium large pen. The Sheaffer PFM and MB 149 were the huge pens of the day (Late 50's-60's).

 

Almost all my vintage pens are standard size...so I'd say a 605 is a medium large pen. I do like the size by the way.

 

dcpritch, I like your nib and pen.

Edited November 15, 2011 by Bo Bo Olson

[jorgerp1]

This guy wrote a lot of maths with his Pel 100 (or 100N)

 

I have the same preferences than him but he din´t had the choice of M800

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Citizen-Einstein.jpg

[senor47]

Bo Bo and others have done a good job describing nibs in the posts above. It seems like you still have some uncertainty about pen and nib sizes, and a picture is worth at least 1,000 of my words, so here are photos of several Pelikans side by side, from the left (sorry I don't have a 100 to show):

 

1. Pelikan 100N, flexible 14k BB nib (c. 1949 - 1954)
2. Pelikan Souverän M400 Brown Tortoise, 14C M nib (1995)
3. Pelikan Souverän M600, two-tone 18C B nib stubbed by Mike Masuyama (c. 1993 - old style, same size as modern M400)
4. Pelikan Souverän M605, two-tone14C OBB nib (c. 2004)
5. Pelikan Souverän M800, two-tone 18C BB nib ground to OBB by Mottishaw (c. 2008)
6. Pelikan Souverän M1000, two-tone 18C BB stub nib by Oxonian (2010)

 

 

 

 

(Sorry about the shaky photo - a little too much coffee this morning, I'm afraid.)

 

 

 

 

And here's an image showing the pens on a Rhodia A5 pad, so you get the idea of size in relation to something other than pens:

 

 

Yes everyone has helped alot. Thank you, DC, for the pictures. They REALLY helped in narrowing things down. I am starting to become less fond of the M800 though. Is your M600 just as good as your m800 asides from the dimensions? Many call the M800's nib a nail, but many have mentioned the M600's nib as springy as the M200.

 

The 100N looks more suitable for daily tasks since it is small(good size when posted), portable, smooth, holds good amount of ink, smooth, expressive, and is a part of 20th century history.

 

Thank you very much.

[senor47]

Bo Bo and others have done a good job describing nibs in the posts above. It seems like you still have some uncertainty about pen and nib sizes, and a picture is worth at least 1,000 of my words, so here are photos of several Pelikans side by side, from the left (sorry I don't have a 100 to show):

 

1. Pelikan 100N, flexible 14k BB nib (c. 1949 - 1954)
2. Pelikan Souverän M400 Brown Tortoise, 14C M nib (1995)
3. Pelikan Souverän M600, two-tone 18C B nib stubbed by Mike Masuyama (c. 1993 - old style, same size as modern M400)
4. Pelikan Souverän M605, two-tone14C OBB nib (c. 2004)
5. Pelikan Souverän M800, two-tone 18C BB nib ground to OBB by Mottishaw (c. 2008)
6. Pelikan Souverän M1000, two-tone 18C BB stub nib by Oxonian (2010)

 

 

 

 

(Sorry about the shaky photo - a little too much coffee this morning, I'm afraid.)

 

 

 

 

And here's an image showing the pens on a Rhodia A5 pad, so you get the idea of size in relation to something other than pens:

 

 

Yes everyone has helped alot. Thank you, DC, for the pictures. They REALLY helped in narrowing things down. I am starting to become less fond of the M800 though. Is your M600 just as good as your m800 asides from the dimensions? Many call the M800's nib a nail, but many have mentioned the M600's nib as springy as the M200.

 

The 100N looks more suitable for daily tasks since it is small(good size when posted), portable, smooth, holds good amount of ink, smooth, expressive, and is a part of 20th century history.

 

Thank you very much.

[dcpritch]

The 100N is a great shirt pocket pen - light weight, wider barrel diameter, great nib, holds plenty of ink. I like to use it when I will be out of the office all day taking notes and such. Not sure what to tell you about the 800 vs the 600. I think you need to hold them in your hand and write with them for a while before you decide.