Servicing Piston Of Stipula Etruria

[efchem]

Hello,

 

I was wondering if there are any guides to servicing the piston filler of an Etruria. Similar to the excellent one by Hari of the Omas (that one helped me in the past). I received two of them and one works fine but the other is very tight and does not seem to come down all the way. Any help would be great.

 

UPDATE: I removed the nib on the amber one with the tough piston and thought the piston was stuck in the down position because it did not move when I moved the knob. I then decided to see what the black one looked like on the inside - same thing. It did not move when I moved the piston knob. So now I am thinking they are convertibles because it looks like the bottom of a converter in there.

Questions

Stipula does not put something in between the feed and the piston, do they (the piston fill version should be similar to an Omas)?

Should it be easy to unscrew the section to get to the converter if that is what I have?

Did they use the converter on models without the concave section?

Does this change the size or value of the pen?

On the black one, the silver ring by the piston knob is loose, can that be easily reattached?

 

Erick

Edited September 15, 2011 by efchem

[efchem]

I just did a little research and it seems like the common answer is to pull the nib and add silicon to the piston and slowly work it back and forth.

[fabrimedeiros]

I just did a little research and it seems like the common answer is to pull the nib and add silicon to the piston and slowly work it back and forth.

 

 

Yes, use pure silicon grease. It will be like butter. Use a toothpick to add a small amount of silicone on the wall reservoir.

[georges zaslavsky]

depends of which generation of eritruria you are talking about

[wimg]

depends of which generation of eritruria you are talking about

 

Pulling the nib and feed is always an option, actually. and the better one too .

 

Warm regards, Wim

[hari317]

I have a few questions about the etruria.

 

Does the piston ride in a seperate sleeve inside the barrel or directly contacting the walls of the barrel like vintage Montblanc and Omas celluloid pens?

 

Do certain Etruria suffer from barrel shrinkage?

 

Thanks!

Hari

[efchem]

Updated the first post with additional info after removing both nibs and looking at the internal of the pen.

[eric47]

Updated the first post with additional info after removing both nibs and looking at the internal of the pen.

 

Which Etrurias do you have, as Georges asked. I know on my convertibles, the hole into the special piston/converter mechanism is very tiny, a couple mm in diamter. On those pens, I would think it easier to unscrew the section *carefully* to get direct access to the piston/converter mechanism. On the first version and current production Etrurias, I'd probably pull the nib and feed, hole on those is probably small too.

[efchem]

Updated the first post with additional info after removing both nibs and looking at the internal of the pen.

 

Which Etrurias do you have, as Georges asked. I know on my convertibles, the hole into the special piston/converter mechanism is very tiny, a couple mm in diamter. On those pens, I would think it easier to unscrew the section *carefully* to get direct access to the piston/converter mechanism. On the first version and current production Etrurias, I'd probably pull the nib and feed, hole on those is probably small too.

 

Well, I just got them so all I know is that they are older versions since they have the slight taper to the section but do not know much else. With the nibs and feeds pulled and looking inside, it looks like a piece of plastic with a small hole in the middle. The feed also has a small tube sticking off of the back, which looks like it fits in there. I tried unscrewing the section and neither pen would budge. I did put water into the amber one with the tight piston and after an hour the water came out with ink in it so this might explain the tight piston movement. I am going to try and soak it more and maybe that will help it.

 

On yours, is the section easy to unscrew?

[eric47]

Well, I just got them so all I know is that they are older versions since they have the slight taper to the section but do not know much else. With the nibs and feeds pulled and looking inside, it looks like a piece of plastic with a small hole in the middle. The feed also has a small tube sticking off of the back, which looks like it fits in there. I tried unscrewing the section and neither pen would budge. I did put water into the amber one with the tight piston and after an hour the water came out with ink in it so this might explain the tight piston movement. I am going to try and soak it more and maybe that will help it.

 

On yours, is the section easy to unscrew?

 

The sections of the Convertible Etrurias were made to unscrew -- so those unscrew fairly easily. I don't think the other other Etruria piston fillers -- earlier and later than the Convertibles -- were made to be user unscrewable. So, I wouldn't mess with yours which sounds like 1st versions. A photo or two would help a lot.

 

I'd fill those pens with water and let them soak overnight if it appears that dried ink is the cause of the sticky pistons. If the nib and feeds are still removed, then I'd use a syringe to get water inside, rather than using the piston. If dried ink is inside, using the piston may stress or damage the piston seal as it travels over the dried ink.

 

Eventually, if silicone looks too hard to get in there, which on some pens it is, I'd try water with some drops of glycerine. Not as good as silicone, but it can help.

Edited September 15, 2011 by eric47

[jigesh]

I have a few questions about the etruria.

 

Does the piston ride in a seperate sleeve inside the barrel or directly contacting the walls of the barrel like vintage Montblanc and Omas celluloid pens?

 

Do certain Etruria suffer from barrel shrinkage?

 

Thanks!

Hari

 

 

The Etrurias that I have (991, Amber - old and new versions, Alter Ego and Fiesole) don't have pistons directly touching the celluloid barrel like it does for MB and Omas. There's either thin plastic or metallic housing inside the barrel that contains the piston mechanism. This way, there's no direct contact between the ink and barrel's celluloid material. The blind caps have loose/rotating metallic rings, which I guess, are to prevent jamming of piston knobs in case of barrel shrinkage. I haven't seen barrel shrinkage in Etrurias (since I don't have that long experience with Etrurias - Wim or Eric can comment more), but in theory, it can happen. I have seen some really bad shrinkage in Omas's older Paragons and Aurora's older Optimas - perhaps because of insufficient curing during manufacturing process.

[efchem]

I have a few questions about the etruria.

 

Does the piston ride in a seperate sleeve inside the barrel or directly contacting the walls of the barrel like vintage Montblanc and Omas celluloid pens?

 

Do certain Etruria suffer from barrel shrinkage?

 

Thanks!

Hari

 

 

The Etrurias that I have (991, Amber - old and new versions, Alter Ego and Fiesole) don't have pistons directly touching the celluloid barrel like it does for MB and Omas. There's either thin plastic or metallic housing inside the barrel that contains the piston mechanism. This way, there's no direct contact between the ink and barrel's celluloid material. The blind caps have loose/rotating metallic rings, which I guess, are to prevent jamming of piston knobs in case of barrel shrinkage. I haven't seen barrel shrinkage in Etrurias (since I don't have that long experience with Etrurias - Wim or Eric can comment more), but in theory, it can happen. I have seen some really bad shrinkage in Omas's older Paragons and Aurora's older Optimas - perhaps because of insufficient curing during manufacturing process.

 

OK, this makes sense now. So what I am looking at is the bottom of the piston area and not a converter. I have water in it now and was planning on using my cartridge syringe to force more water in there and shake out the inky water when I get home tonight (As well as post pics). I will try the glycerine trick if the piston is still tight since there is no way I can get silicone in there. Thank you all for the info.

[efchem]

Pics attached. It is a piston fill but with a sleeve on the inside. It just had dried ink and now is working smoother. I plan to use some noodler's eel ink to help lube the piston better.

 

Should I worry about the silver ring by the piston knob of the black one because it can slide down?

[hari317]

Thanks for the inputs Jigesh. From efchem's photos of the barrels above, the barrels look 1 piece, I may be wrong. but there should be some way to disassemble the pen. Efchem, do you see any cross pin through the piston knob, like celluloid Ogiva/paragons? or any slots/flats in the filler unit with the knob unscrewed a bit?

[rogerb]

I have a modern Alter Ego piston-fill.

Do the nib and feed pull straight out on this?

(It doesn't need removal ATM, but it's useful to know)

Thanks.

[eric47]

Pics attached. It is a piston fill but with a sleeve on the inside. It just had dried ink and now is working smoother. I plan to use some noodler's eel ink to help lube the piston better.

 

Should I worry about the silver ring by the piston knob of the black one because it can slide down?

 

Those look like first version Etrurias. Glad it was just dried ink. Noodler's has glycerine in it for lubrication, btw. There's a thread in the repair section about it.

 

As for the ring -- might want to wait for a response from Wim, he'd know.

[eric47]

I have a modern Alter Ego piston-fill.

Do the nib and feed pull straight out on this?

(It doesn't need removal ATM, but it's useful to know)

 

Roger, same type of Bock mounting hardware that you know from your Tibaldi. You can pull the nib and feed straight out; and there are guides/cutouts for the nib on the feed, and feed into the collar.

 

The collar can be unscrewed from the section with a key, but it's typically not needed for say a nib swap. You'd unscrew only if it's absolutely necessary, e.g. a broken collar. Wim has mentioned he has/had a pen with the collar stuck partially unscrewed. So just leave the collar, and treat the nib + feed as friction fit.

 

 

The Etrurias that I have (991, Amber - old and new versions, Alter Ego and Fiesole) don't have pistons directly touching the celluloid barrel like it does for MB and Omas. There's either thin plastic or metallic housing inside the barrel that contains the piston mechanism. This way, there's no direct contact between the ink and barrel's celluloid material. The blind caps have loose/rotating metallic rings, which I guess, are to prevent jamming of piston knobs in case of barrel shrinkage. I haven't seen barrel shrinkage in Etrurias (since I don't have that long experience with Etrurias - Wim or Eric can comment more), but in theory, it can happen. I have seen some really bad shrinkage in Omas's older Paragons and Aurora's older Optimas - perhaps because of insufficient curing during manufacturing process.

 

I only have a 991, 3 Ambers (old, Convertible, new), and a Ocean Blue (or is that Blue Ocean ) also a convertible. The only one I don't know what's inside is the old Amber, but sounds like efchem has determined that that pen too has liner.

 

I haven't seen any celluloid shrinkage on mine. But I believe the switch was made from nitrate to acetate for stability, though I haven't read any reports of shrinkage either; Wim's the expert on this.

 

The first Optimas had shrinkage so bad the the cap and barrel get distorted -- it shrinks transversely as well as in the diameter unevenly. Some, more than other, Omas celluloids are prone to shrinkage too,e.g. early Wild on the Galileo, and Arco Green. Typically with those, the diameter shrinks evenly leaving loose cap rings, although the pen looks otherwise fine. My two Galileos, an Arco Green, and a bit on an Pearl Gray and Arco Brown have shrunk. I had my restorer redo the rings on the Galileo and Arco Green, and he was able to tighten the rings on the Pearl Gray and an Arco Brown roller.

Edited September 16, 2011 by eric47

[jigesh]

....Should I worry about the silver ring by the piston knob of the black one because it can slide down?...

 

Does it come out fully? If so, that means over the years, blind cap's celluloid perhaps shrunk a bit. If it easily comes out, you may use tiny dot of super-glue but otherwise, it's supposed to be rotating I guess. But nothing bad happens if it doesn't rotate. Just my view - consider your risks before applying glue or PM Wim and take his opinion; or write to Stipula and see what they advise.

Edited September 16, 2011 by jigesh

[jigesh]

..From efchem's photos of the barrels above, the barrels look 1 piece, I may be wrong. but there should be some way to disassemble the pen ...

 

My impression is that the barrels on old Etrurias were single piece while those in new ones (including 991 model) with metallic sleeve inside can have grip section which can be opened if you are determined but is not advisable to open because putting back needs to be sent to Stipula! - I remember Wim mentioning it somewhere. There must be some way though at the blind cap side to remove piston assembly, but I haven't tried myself. There are no special slots (like in MB) or similar mechanisms and hence I don't see if any special tools are needed or not.

Edited September 16, 2011 by jigesh

[eric47]

My impression is that the barrels on old Etrurias were single piece while those in new ones (including 991 model) with metallic sleeve inside can have grip section ehich can be opened if you are determined but is not advisable to open because putting back needs to be sent to Stipula! - I remember Wim mentioning it somewhere.

 

The 991 is a convertible; efchem's pens are not. Actually looking at the photos of efchem's Amber, I can actually see the pattern extend from the section through the threads to the barrel -- it does appear to be a single piece.

 

The 991, on the other hand, as a Convertible was designed -- success debatable -- so that the user could unscrew the section in order to: (a) remove/replace the special big Stipula "piston converter", or (2) insert/remove cartridges or standard converters. That's the way it was intended. In fact my 991 which I bought NOS last year at a store that still had it after all these years, came with a standard converter and a cartridge in the box.

 

I say "success debatable" because the original convertibles had a complete celluloid section, which had a tendency to break. The wall-thickness of the part that went into the barrel was quite thin. They later added aluminum to the inner part of the section to improve its rigidity. See my photos below. They were made to break down easily by the user; no need to ship it to Stipula to put it back together. However given their fragility; if you break it, then it will have to go back to Stipula

 

FYI, depending on the age, the 991 for instance might not have a complete metal sleeve or "piston converter" inside. It may have a good deal of plastic -- it's somewhat fragile. Switching to the later metal "piston converter" may require modifications to the pen and/or section depending on the age of the 991.

 

I have 3 convertibles. Here are the sections: (apologies for the quality of photos, I was too lazy to break out the lighting and tripod gear)

 

 

 

Here are the special Sitpula user-removable "piston converters" or sleeves. The top one is what's in my 991. The bottom all aluminum one comes for the Blue Ocean; I was told that was the last and most stable version of that "piston converter" for the Convertibles. My Amber convertible has been modified; the pen is now piston only -- the "piston converter"/sleeve has been fixed to the piston knob. While I can unscrew the section on the Amber Convertible, I cannot remove the inner piston converter mechanism.

 

 

Piston converters in the section. The sections and "piston converters"/sleeves come from different periods. They're not interchangeable.

 

 

The pens all back together.

Edited September 16, 2011 by eric47