Jumbo Innards

[pal38]

It took me ages to dismantle this funny elephant pen.

 

I tried to wiggle the section off but it wouldn't budge. Finally I thought may-be this is a screw-off section, but it wouldn't budge. Then I soaked it in warm water for about 2 days and tryed again with heavy plyers and very sticky old rubber gloves wrapped around the section. Then finally it came off! But here I reached the end of the road without an expert's advice.

 

How is the filling mechanisme dismantled? It looks something like a plunger filler and the whole thing should come apart somehow. Is there anybody here who knows something about this funny pen?

 

Thanks a lot!

 

Edited July 8, 2011 by pal38

[KrazyIvan]

I think I read on here that the pen is meant for older arthritic hands. The size of it makes it easier to hold.

[sloegin]

It's a Japanese style eyedropper. It isn't a plunger, but when screwed down shuts-off more ink (because there is still ink in the feed) from getting into the section.

[pal38]

Thank you for your explanation.

 

As a matter of fact there was such a Jumbo sold on eBay as an eye-dropper some months ago. I was thinking of using it as such as well, but I'm sure that the rod has a connection with the filling system.

 

As it is now, the rod attached to the screw-off barrel end just enters into the barrel ink reservoir without being attached to anything and when the barrel end is screwed off, water/ink leaks out around the rod. There must have been a piston of some kind attached to it, but this is disconnected from the rod. Either it's stuck in the barrel or fell off and got lost. I need the advice of a real expert here and I hope there is one reading these lines.

 

Thank you.

Edited July 9, 2011 by pal38

[OldGriz]

Every one of these pens that I have seen have been eyedropper fill and the blind cap is a shut off system...

I have never seen or heard of one being a piston fill or any other kind of filler system...

The Japanese were not known to be makers of piston fill pens.... especially lower end pens like this one

[fountainbel]

Every one of these pens that I have seen have been eyedropper fill and the blind cap is a shut off system...

I have never seen or heard of one being a piston fill or any other kind of filler system...

The Japanese were not known to be makers of piston fill pens.... especially lower end pens like this one

 

Fully agree with Tom,, this is an eyedropper equipped with a shut-off / flow adjustment valve.

Francis

[hari317]

As it is now, the rod attached to the screw-off barrel end just enters into the barrel ink reservoir without being attached to anything and when the barrel end is screwed off, water/ink leaks out around the rod. There must have been a piston of some kind attached to it, but this is disconnected from the rod. Either it's stuck in the barrel or fell off and got lost.

 

The rod which enters the barrel, at the end of it, is a seal that will block flow of ink into the section orifice, when the rear knob is tightened on the barrel. That is how the shutoff valve works.

 

Now you have two seals to take care of. One is the ink shutoff seal discussed above. The other is the "packing" which prevents leakage around the shaft in the area where it enters the barrel from the rear. This is typically made of cork. Instructions and advice regarding repair of seal is available in the Laurence Oldfield pen repair book.

 

In case the ahutoff seal is shot as well as the rear seal is shot, you can still use the pen, since the shut off does not work, ink flow to nib will not be hampered even when the rear knob is full closed. Just keep the rear knob fully closed, use section sealant there to prevent leaks. YMMV.

[pal38]

OK, finally I got it!

 

I'm sorry for being so close minded and stubborn, but I never made the connection with the small section hole and the little joint on the rod end.

 

:embarrassed_smile: :embarrassed_smile:

 

Does this mean I have to loosen the barrel end a bit everytime I want to write with the pen in order to let the ink in the section?

Edited July 10, 2011 by pal38

[fountainbel]

OK, finally I got it!

 

I'm sorry for being so close minded and stubborn, but I never made the connection with the small section hole and the little joint on the rod end.

 

:embarrassed_smile: :embarrassed_smile:

 

Does this mean I have to loosen the barrel end a bit everytime I want to write with the pen in order to let the ink in the section?

Yes, you have to open the closing cap (at least one turn) allowing the ink passing the valve seat

Francis

[lcoldfield]

These pens are often thought to be eyedropper fill only because there is no piston seal. Sure, they can be eyedroppers, but they need not be. I have discussed this type of pen in Pen Repair Second edition page 208.

Filling occurs on the up stroke by the displacement principle. The volume of ink entering is equal to the volume of rod withdrawn. Now you have to take the pen out of the ink and orient it nib up. When the rod is pushed back in only air comes out (provided the barrel end seal is good). Place the pen back in the ink again and repeat. It takes about 6 cycles. Although a bit inconvenient to fill like this, it is very effective because the entire barrel can be filled. An experiment with an Onoto 6234 with no piston seal showed that the pen can be filled with more ink this way. The same is true of Sheaffer vac-fils.

I have never found instructions with these pens, but I am sure that this was the method intended - why else would they bother to provide a rod and seal at the barrel end? Ink cut-off is merely a bonus of this type of filler.

Laurence Oldfield

[fountainbel]

These pens are often thought to be eyedropper fill only because there is no piston seal. Sure, they can be eyedroppers, but they need not be. I have discussed this type of pen in Pen Repair Second edition page 208.

Filling occurs on the up stroke by the displacement principle. The volume of ink entering is equal to the volume of rod withdrawn. Now you have to take the pen out of the ink and orient it nib up. When the rod is pushed back in only air comes out (provided the barrel end seal is good). Place the pen back in the ink again and repeat. It takes about 6 cycles. Although a bit inconvenient to fill like this, it is very effective because the entire barrel can be filled. An experiment with an Onoto 6234 with no piston seal showed that the pen can be filled with more ink this way. The same is true of Sheaffer vac-fils.

I have never found instructions with these pens, but I am sure that this was the method intended - why else would they bother to provide a rod and seal at the barrel end? Ink cut-off is merely a bonus of this type of filler.

Laurence Oldfield

 

Very interesting feedback, never thought of this filling approach !

Thanks for shearing;

Having only the first edition off your excellent repair book, it looks I'll have to order the latest edition !

Francis

[AltecGreen]

These pens are often thought to be eyedropper fill only because there is no piston seal. Sure, they can be eyedroppers, but they need not be. I have discussed this type of pen in Pen Repair Second edition page 208.

Filling occurs on the up stroke by the displacement principle. The volume of ink entering is equal to the volume of rod withdrawn. Now you have to take the pen out of the ink and orient it nib up. When the rod is pushed back in only air comes out (provided the barrel end seal is good). Place the pen back in the ink again and repeat. It takes about 6 cycles. Although a bit inconvenient to fill like this, it is very effective because the entire barrel can be filled. An experiment with an Onoto 6234 with no piston seal showed that the pen can be filled with more ink this way. The same is true of Sheaffer vac-fils.

I have never found instructions with these pens, but I am sure that this was the method intended - why else would they bother to provide a rod and seal at the barrel end? Ink cut-off is merely a bonus of this type of filler.

Laurence Oldfield

 

 

I found it quite a shock when I read these very same comments in the new edition of the book. (A very fine book I might add). Your view seems contrary to the explanation given by Ron Dutcher although equally plausible.

 

 

Here are Ron's comments on the subject.

 

http://www.kamakurapens.com/Japanese_Eyedropper_Pens.html

 

 

I guess I need to contact Ron to see if he has documentation from that period in time to settle the matter. Personally, I slightly favor Ron's explanation based on cultural factors.

[lcoldfield]

I have no idea whether or not the Japanese were primarily concerned with ink cut-off, but it is certainly possible to fill these pens by the method I described. If they were designed as eyedroppers, why is it so often nearly impossible to remove the sections (see original post on the Jumbo pen)?

I will be most interested to hear if anyone can find an original instruction leaflet for these pens.

Laurence Oldfield

[sloegin]

Here is a link to an auction of a Japanese eyedropper, the last picture is filling instructions.

 

I have to disagree that they can be filled by any other method. I just tried it on a Pilot and it failed.

[viclip]

Sloegin's link is interesting if not telling.

I'd be curious as to the meaning of the Japanese writing on the instruction sheet.

Do we have anyone able to translate same into English for our collective edification?

[lcoldfield]

My experiments with these Japanese eyedropper/plunger pens led me down a path of research on diaphragm fillers (see the Journal of the Writing Equipment Society) to be published at the end of this month.

With barrel reservoir pens, we need to get the air out without losing ink that is already in the pen. With the early Japanese pens, this can only be done by taking them out of the ink and turning them nib up. The ink is then at the end of the barrel so only air comes out when the piston rod is pushed back in.

The Dunn pen illustrates the next evolutionary step. Dunn fitted an air tube (breather tube) to extract the air so that the pen did not need to be removed from the ink after each cycle (note that like the Japanese pens, there is no piston seal in the Dunn). The barrel end seal in the Dunn proved unreliable, so a flexible rubber component was substituted for the rod and this led to the bulb filler and a huge variety of so called diaphragm fillers (Waterman Ink-Vue, Swan Visofil VT, Parker Vac etc).

Laurence Oldfield

[pal38]

This post has taken an unexpected turn and a very interesting one as well. I didn't dare hoping to get so much information about my clumsy giant (a friend of mine called it the bodyguard of my Pastel Esties) and it has become all the dearer to me. Thank you all a lot for your interesting and valuble contributions!

 

That leaves me with one issue: How do I make the hole on top of the barrel (where the rod passes through) air/ink-tight? Dismantling and use then some sealing material as cork or rubber? Dismantling how? Or by pressing some silicone into the hole around the rod? Any advice there?

 

Thanks.

Edited July 13, 2011 by pal38

[Vintagepens]

A few clarifications:

This is, in fact, an eyedropper-filler with a screw-action ink shutoff valve.

The valve operates by wedging the conical piece at the end of the internal shaft against the matching seat at the rear of the section. The contact is hard rubber to hard rubber -- there is no seal to replace for the ink shutoff feature.

 

This construction is typically Japanese. It derives from Onotos, which were imported into Japan at the very beginning of the 20th century, and which were very influential for Japanese pen design. Most Onotos were plunger-fillers, of course, but the Japanese preferred to adapt the Onoto mechanism to leave off the piston washer, retaining the ink shutoff. Interestingly enough, Onoto did make pens of this sort for Western buyers as well -- I've owned a good number of them over the years.

 

Onotos and most high-quality Japanese ink shutoff-equipped eyedroppers have a shaft seal that can be accessed by unscrewing a washer at the rear of the seal compartment. The Japanese jumbos, however, are a real pain to repair. I'm not sure how one gets access to the seal compartment (I should just cut apart a crappy example one of these days -- they are common enough), and the shaft seems to be permanently attached to the end knob. I don't think I've ever succeeded in getting the parts apart (Onotos and Japanese copies used a reverse-threaded shaft, held in place with a crosspin).

[sloegin]

My experiments with these Japanese eyedropper/plunger pens led me down a path of research on diaphragm fillers (see the Journal of the Writing Equipment Society) to be published at the end of this month.

With barrel reservoir pens, we need to get the air out without losing ink that is already in the pen. With the early Japanese pens, this can only be done by taking them out of the ink and turning them nib up. The ink is then at the end of the barrel so only air comes out when the piston rod is pushed back in.

The Dunn pen illustrates the next evolutionary step. Dunn fitted an air tube (breather tube) to extract the air so that the pen did not need to be removed from the ink after each cycle (note that like the Japanese pens, there is no piston seal in the Dunn). The barrel end seal in the Dunn proved unreliable, so a flexible rubber component was substituted for the rod and this led to the bulb filler and a huge variety of so called diaphragm fillers (Waterman Ink-Vue, Swan Visofil VT, Parker Vac etc).

Laurence Oldfield

The diaphragm filler/bulb filler was patented years before the inception of any Japanese pen company that I know about.

[hari317]

Hi David, On the two modern Dani Trio EDs that I have, the ink shut off is by means of a soft rubber seal butting against the conical HR seat on the section. The rubber seal sits on a HR shelf at the end of the shutoff rod. On a Tsuchida Ban-ei ED that I use, the shaft's shut off seal is of a soft material, feels like a natural material, maybe sometype of cork, I have not probed it for fear of damaging it. Best, Hari