Sailor Nano Kiwa-Guro Black... Safe?

[Limenweim]

Hello everyone, I bought the Sailor Nano Black ink last year, and it has been my favourite ink ever since. It is smooth, does not bleed through, and is completely waterproof. My only issue before today is the nib creep, which can get really irritating at times.

 

However, what disturbs me is the residual ink after you clean the pens. I have not tried using the ink on any non-Sailor pen, so I cannot describe anything further in that area, but for my Sailor Sapporo, after using 3 converter fills of the ink, the nib and section retained a heavy ink smell (which is pretty much unique to the nano ink). I flushed the section, soaked it in water overnight and used a syringe to eject water forcefully in hope of cleaning the section more effectively, but it seems that the smell remained.

 

I have not thought about it much ever since until recently, when I purchased a high power ultrasonic cleaner. I ran the nib through a 5 minute cleaning cycle, and I was somewhat not surprised when there was a stream of black particles coming out from the nib.

 

I thought it might be a one-off incident, but today, upon cleaning my Professional Gear after using the very same ink (for around 2 weeks), the same thing happened. Throughout the 5 minute cleaning cycle in the ultrasonic cleaner, there was a constant stream of black particles coming out of the nib section. This makes me wonder how safe this ink actually is, especially for those people without an ultrasonic cleaner.

 

This makes me wonder if prolonged usage, without ultrasonically cleaning the pen, would lead to congestion in ink flow. Does anyone have any bad experience with this ink? Any form of clogging or reduced ink flow?

Edited June 4, 2011 by Limenweim

[JEBennett]

Hello everyone, I bought the Sailor Nano Black ink last year, and it has been my favourite ink ever since. It is smooth, does not bleed through, and is completely waterproof. My only issue before today is the nib creep, which can get really irritating at times.

 

However, what disturbs me is the residual ink after you clean the pens. I have not tried using the ink on any non-Sailor pen, so I cannot describe anything further in that area, but for my Sailor Sapporo, after using 3 converter fills of the ink, the nib and section retained a heavy ink smell (which is pretty much unique to the nano ink). I flushed the section, soaked it in water overnight and used a syringe to eject water forcefully in hope of cleaning the section more effectively, but it seems that the smell remained.

 

I have not thought about it much ever since until recently, when I purchased a high power ultrasonic cleaner. I ran the nib through a 5 minute cleaning cycle, and I was somewhat not surprised when there was a stream of black particles coming out from the nib.

 

I thought it might be a one-off incident, but today, upon cleaning my Professional Gear after using the very same ink (for around 2 weeks), the same thing happened. Throughout the 5 minute cleaning cycle in the ultrasonic cleaner, there was a constant stream of black particles coming out of the nib section. This makes me wonder how safe this ink actually is, especially for those people without an ultrasonic cleaner.

 

This makes me wonder if prolonged usage, without ultrasonically cleaning the pen, would lead to congestion in ink flow. Does anyone have any bad experience with this ink? Any form of clogging or reduced ink flow?

 

I have not used Sailor Kiwa-Guro, but my bottle of Platinum Carbon Black is down to the last ten ml or so, through solid use.

 

Perhaps the only serious downside to the Carbon ink is that it prevents ink windows from being useful and takes extra effort to flush out of a pen. As to its safety, however, (and this is where Carbon vs. Kiwa-Guro comes in to possibly be important) I have this story to relate.

 

During a house move in 2009 I lost my Lamy 2000 with a quarter-fill of Carbon Black. I found the pen seven months later, in a box that had been sealed before losing the 2000. Obakemono aside, the ink was dried and the pen did not flow, and I thought that my impetuousness had come home to roost.

 

Imagine my surprise, then, when after a few hours soaking in water to rehydrate, the pen wrote! The piston moved stiffly at first, but after thirty minutes work water flushed through the pen had only the slightest grey tinge. I removed the nib to examine the feed, and it looked perfect - there was some deposition of carbon where the nib touched the shell of the pen, but it wiped off easily. In the years using it in 2000/27/99 style pens, I have seen the build up again, from dried nib creep, but it has never impacted the write, nor proven more than a few minutes longer to clear out.

 

I have used the Carbon in a Lamy 2000, 99, 27, and Safari, as well as a Conklin Mark Twain Signature, a Cross Apogee, a Reform 1745, and an Esterbrook. I have gone from colored dye ink to Carbon and back, and I still have seen no serious issues. It does take extra time to flush, but my pens still write fantastically and when I -do- clean them (about once a month or so for the Lamy's in constant service) the feeds appear good as new.

[jde]

This makes me wonder if prolonged usage, without ultrasonically cleaning the pen, would lead to congestion in ink flow. Does anyone have any bad experience with this ink? Any form of clogging or reduced ink flow?

 

 

There is a great thread on this subject here.

[PaulT00]

From personal experience I'd say it may even be safer than other 'safe' inks. I've used Kiwaguro extensively in two pens: a fine PFM and a fine/med Parker '51'. Neither noted for ease of cleaning due to feed design etc. I'm not particularly fussed about flushing pens regularly, but had the PFM filled with Kiwaguro for nearly a year without flushing - just occasional refilling - without problems. The '51' used to be my go-to writer and was continuously loaded with Kiwaguro for many months a while back. It then had an incident with a washing machine (don't ask) where the cap remained tightly sealed. A short while after that the shellac on the hood came loose; while it was apart I gave the innards a good rinse through but there was absolutely no sign of clogging in the collector. Now it's been resealed it's been in intermittent use with Kiwaguro - maybe once a week - for months and always starts first time.

 

Its only foibles as far as I am concerned are (1) a degree of tenacity when one does finally flush it from the pen, which can take a bit of work! and (2) the fact that one cannot leave the nib exposed for more than 30 seconds using this ink or it will dry enough for a hard start next time. This does mean it's not really suitable for pens with breather holes in the cap as it will allow the ink to dry on the nib - the Sei-boku blue-black does the same, and was a real pain when I tried it in a Conway Stewart with a breather hole in the cap, it needed to be polished off the nib and took quite a bit of flushing.

 

I've used the same Parker '51', incidentally, with Diamine Midnight and suffered dreadful drying out problems and poor flow...

 

Your mileage may, of course, vary. I don't bother with any other black inks these days!

[UltraMagnus]

Similar pigment inks are used in inkjet printers that have print heads hundreds of times smaller than the feeds on fountain pens, so I think it is relatively safe. I imagine what you experienced was a thin film that coated the inside of your pen, I doubt it would build up and would slowly come off once the pen was used with normal dye ink.

 

My only complaint is the ink doesn't seem to flow at all well in stylographs, my rotring altro wouldn't work with it at all.

[Inka]

I'm one of those that still doesn't have an ultrasonic cleaner, and I use Kiwa-guro exclusively in a December 2000 Pilot VP Mustard.

My VP nib is not gold, it's one of the Special Alloy nibs made exclusively for the Japanese market, it's marked M [Medium] and writes like most Fines of other brands I have.

On the cleaning end, I rinse off the nib under nothing more than running tap water, use an ear-squeeze bulb filled with water and pressure-wash the VP nib/ feed/ assembly about every 3 refills when using Kiwa-guro.

After filling the squeeze-bulb with water, I press the tapered end into the back of the VP section where the C/Cs are inserted, hold the nib under running water and squeeze water through it at the same time to flush it through.

I'll also squeeze water all around the nib, through the breather hole and slot, underneath the nib, where it joins the metal section, I do the same no matter what ink I use and have never seen Kiwa-guro give me any more trouble than any other inks [meaning no troubles cleaning this way at all].

 

I've been using Kiwa-guro in the same pen for about 2 years now, it's the #1 primary ink that stays in my Pilot VP Mustard 24/7 as it's the only pen I always carry with me whenever I go out and I often need black-only ink for filling out and signing certain documents.

In all that time the only time I had issue was when I left the tiny VP nib extended/ exposed and laid the pen down for several minutes without writing, picked it up to write and found it had dried, but a quick lick on a tissue nearby and a quick wipe over the nib slot got the ink flowing again without any problem.

Now this wasn't the fault of Kiwa-guro exclusively, having dried when the VP was open and going unused, as I've had far faster dry-outs while using other inks such as Noodler's Whaleman's Sepia in that pen whenever I stop writing with it and leave the nib exposed to air.

All in all I prefer Sailor Kiwa-guro to any other black inks I've tried in my Pilot VP, I've never had any problems cleaning the nib assembly or even my *cartridges [*filled with syringe & blunt needle when used]/ converters when using Kiwa-guro and I always clean my VP every 2-3 refills just as the manufacturer suggests you do when using their nano-particle inks.

 

As for ink smell with Kiwa-guro, I've never found it to be obtrusive nor overbearing, it's certainly nothing at all like the strong chemical odors given off by some inks such as Whaleman's Sepia or Bay State Blue and even those I've gotten used to and don't concern myself with.

Most inks have some smell, some inks more than others, I never notice any smells or odors when writing with my VP even after a fresh flush & fill with Kiwa-guro.

 

If it wasn't so expensive, compared to other permanent black inks I like such as Noodler's The Heart Of Darkness for example, I'd make sure to always have a bottle of Kiwa-guro on hand at all times at least for my Pilot VP as I've found it's the best-behaved of all my blacks when used in my carry-everywhere Pilot VP!

[Limenweim]

Thanks for the info people! I am just so glad that I purchased that ultrasonic cleaner, because without it, cleaning pens after using this ink is just... a nightmare.

[Neill78]

<br />Thanks for the info people! I am just so glad that I purchased that ultrasonic cleaner, because without it, cleaning pens after using this ink is just... a nightmare.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

 

This is my favorite ink of all. I used it nonstop for about 2 years straight, without cleaning, in a Lamy 2000 EF with no ill effects. It seems to stick to some ink windows, feeds, nibs, or converters more than others, but that's not really any different than "normal" inks. If you take any pen you cleaned well and put away, chances are if you run some water through it you will get some residue coming out, unless you took the pen apart and cleaned with a brush, I guess.

 

The important thing is that in my experience, Kiwaguro is no more likely to clog a pen than normal inks. In fact I have far less issues with Kiwaguro than with normal inks!

[nicholasyeo]

Kiwaguro needs to be used daily, if not it doesn't flow very well. In fact, it doesn't flow very heavily at all!

On my fine nibbed Heritage 92, this ink is so dry that it can't bleed on Moleskine - something extraordinary.

So I have started writing with the Heritage 92 on Moleskine. But the strange thing is this - it doesn't do very

much of lubricating as well, the lack of flow. It could be attributed to the pen itself, but I doubt so.... :hmm1:

[Limenweim]

Nicholas, could it be that your Heritage 92 is a dry writer? But yes, I must admit this ink is on the dryer side...

[ville900]

Hello Limenweim.

 

When you say:

 

I ran the nib through a 5 minute cleaning cycle, and I was somewhat not surprised when there was a stream of black particles coming out from the nib.

 

May I ask you what exactly you put in the ultra-sonic cleaner?

- The whole thing : section + nib + feed still attached?

- Or do you take it apart and only put parts in the cleaner?

 

I don't have an ultrasonic cleaner yet and am thinking about acquiring one. But I wouldn't like to have to take my pens apart before cleaning them as this is something I have never done before and I am not really keen to start doing that as I would be afraid of breaking them when doing so.

 

Thanks

[Limenweim]

Hi, I put the entire nib section into the cleaner, as I am not sure whether the Sailor nib is friction fit or not, and I do not want a mistake to set me back by a 100USD ++. Just take pens apart when you are really sure how it can be done. (E.g. TWSBI)

 

And oh, I tried filling my Pilot 78G (M nib) with the Kiwaguro ink, and it was dry to the extent that it skipped. Not sure if it is a problem with Pilot ink feeds...

[nicholasyeo]

Nicholas, could it be that your Heritage 92 is a dry writer? But yes, I must admit this ink is on the dryer side...

 

The Heritage 92 is dry. But it may be an unfair comparison, due to the fact

that all my other pens - Sailors, have very wet flow. But the "dryness" is a

blessing in disguise!!!!

[ville900]

Hi, I put the entire nib section into the cleaner, as I am not sure whether the Sailor nib is friction fit or not, and I do not want a mistake to set me back by a 100USD ++. Just take pens apart when you are really sure how it can be done. (E.g. TWSBI)

 

And oh, I tried filling my Pilot 78G (M nib) with the Kiwaguro ink, and it was dry to the extent that it skipped. Not sure if it is a problem with Pilot ink feeds...

 

Thanks. I wasn't sure it'd be safe to put the whole section. I think I remember people saying it was better to take the section apart.

 

Also, I think the 78G is a very dry writer by itself from my own experience (F nib).

[Limenweim]

Well, as long as it is safe to do so, I would! I actually take apart the Pilot 78G and Platinum 3776 to clean the feed, but I just don't know how the Sailor nib section works. I also heard that there might be an alignment problem with the components inside, so I did not dare to take the risk.

 

And yes, the Pilot 78G is a slightly dryer writer, but still totally smooth (on other inks). I just did not expect it to be so dry that the pen skips all the time...

[tanalasta]

Taking the whole feed and nib apart before cleaning in an ultrasonic ensures that those nooks and crannies and the gap between the feed channel and inside of the nib are clean.

 

I don't have a nib knockout block and do not feel taking the risk (especially with my level of inexperience) is worth it. Hence, I put the whole Sailor nib unit section into the ultrasonic cleaner. I have a 50W ultrasonic and line the basket with a paper towel (or hold the nib section with a pair of chopsticks) and clean for about 5 minutes. Sailor pigment ink is one of the very few that requires me to physically wipe the residue off the nib prior to cleaning. I love Sailor seiboku ink for it's behaviour, colour, shading and water resistance but I really don't like how it tends to build up residue between the tines and underneath the nib tip if unused for even a day or two.

 

So is the ink safe? In the right hands and maintainence - probably so, otherwise they wouldn't sell it ... you hope. Otherwise, I prefer to lose the water resistance for ease of use and cleaning.

 

As a matter of fact, I had to clean out a Sailor Professional gear that had only been in rotation a few weeks (on it's second cartridge) today due to buildup of nib creep from Sailor seiboku (the blue-black version of the nano carbon ink).

 

On that note, has anyone compared the blue black to the nano black?

[Limenweim]

I recall that someone commented the Blue-black is less lubricating. In my opinion, I can't feel much difference. The blue-black also has less smell than the Kiwaguro. However, it seems to have a slightly higher chance of staining, and the cartridge I syringe-filled with is still slightly blueish from the last fill, despite my attempt to ultrasonically clean it.

[Zou]

Sorry to bump a really old thread, but how would one get the smell out of the feed and cap? I had it in my pro gear, took the nib and feed out of the section, soaked it in water, wiped it with paper towel... Now I'll try letting it air out for a week, but if it's anything like the smell of the Noodler's Charlie Pen, this pro gear might be in the graveyard for me.

When you put it in an ultrasonic, would you just use water, or a solution?

I know some people don't notice the smell, but for me it's really strong even if I don't put my nose very near it, and it gives me headaches. I tried putting an iroshizuku ink in to see if it would absorb some of it, but it didn't help. I guess I should have tried it in a cheaper pen first, but I thought a good cap seal would be important to making it behave.

[aurore]

Just to share a bit of experience. Recently I had to clean an old Sailor 1911. Not used actually nevertheless completely clogged. I soaked and disassembled it. Kiwaguro was inside Dried for years or decades. Some soaking, a soft toothbrush, a syringe with a thin needle and lukewarm water and a bit of patience. Cleaned completely.
Sailor nano-pigment inks are perfect. Especially if your pen's cap is more or less airtight (read no Parker Sonnets) and you can disassemble the pen easily (just in case). Fantastic inks.

[katerchen]

I would say, it's pretty well behaved.

 

Platinum Carbon Black, however, is evil. Completely clogged up my Diplomat Aero after a couple of months. Yes, I did not clean it religiously every week or so, but still ...

 

-k