Jump to content

Very First Fountain Pen


Fernshaw

Recommended Posts

Has anybody done a history or backgrounder on the original fountain pen -- that is the goose quill pen cut for writing? And to that point, how is that Asia developed a writing culture using pointed brushes, while Europe stiff quills? Tnx. Fernshaw

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 31
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • penguina

    8

  • Vintagepens

    6

  • Shangas

    3

  • Fernan

    3

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

Those are not fountain pens. They are dip-pens. A fountain pen has an inbuilt reservior and a cap. A quill, brush or stylus has no such ink reservoir. Fountain pens did not show up until the late 19th century.

http://www.throughouthistory.com/ - My Blog on History & Antiques

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi

 

Contrary to popular belief, Waterman did not invent the fountain pen. That was invented a thousand years ago, by the Egyptians of the time. The following information is from wikipedia:

 

"The earliest historical record of a reservoir pen dates back to the 10th century. In 953, Ma'ād al-Mu'izz, the caliph of Egypt, demanded a pen which would not stain his hands or clothes, and was provided with a pen which held ink in a reservoir and delivered it to the nib, and could be held upside-down without leaking, as recorded by Qadi al-Nu'man al-Tamimi (d. 974) in his Kitab al-Majalis wa 'l-musayardt. No details of the construction or mechanism of operation of this pen are known and no examples have survived.

 

One thousand years ago, the unknown inventor said:

 

"We wish to construct a pen which can be used for writing without having recourse to an ink-holder and whose ink will be contained inside it. A person can fill it with ink and write whatever he likes. The writer can put it in his sleeve or anywhere he wishes and it will not stain nor will any drop of ink leak out of it. The ink will flow only when there is an intention to write. We are unaware of anyone previously ever constructing (a pen such as this) and an indication of ‘penetrating wisdom’ to whoever contemplates it and realises its exact significance and purpose’. I exclaimed, ‘Is this possible?’ He replied, ‘It is possible if God so wills'."

 

Great defination of a fountain pen!

 

from Bosworth, C. E. (Autumn 1981). "A Mediaeval Islamic Prototype of the Fountain Pen?". Journal of Semitic Studies XXVl (i).

 

and found on Wikipedia article on fountain pen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fountain_pen.

 

Fountain pens have been around for a long time.

[/b ] Penguina[size=5][/size]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was always interested in the scene from the film Topsy-Turvy in which D'Oyly-Carte hands Sullivan a pen with which he wants him to sign a contract. Sullivan does not know what to do with it because he has never seen, or even heard of, a fountain pen before. D'Oyly-Carte explains and the contract is signed.

 

Does anyone know what pen was used in the film - and was this the first practical fountain pen?

Sincerely, beak.

 

God does not work in mysterious ways – he works in ways that are indistinguishable from his non-existence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Beak

 

Looks like a fountain pen from the 1940' or 50s to me....when you zoom in. It appears to have a metal cap, like many pens made from the nineteen forties and fifties.

The very early fountain pens from the nineteenth and early twentieth century were made of black ebonite, or early black plastic, with black caps.

 

Could be any one of a number of makers. :thumbup:

post-42839-0-30757500-1300957964.jpg

[/b ] Penguina[size=5][/size]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would never believe anything in Wikipedia without first checking the sources. And the link I clicked on turned up blank. And the actual FP article on Wikipedia doesn't mention what you did so I've no idea where you got it from.

 

As such, I would still maintain that the fountain pen didn't show up until the late 19th century. I did not say that Waterman invented it - everyone knows that isn't true. All I said is that the modern fountain pen (and by that I mean a pen with a cap, a feed, a nib, a barrel and an internal ink-supply that didn't leak) didn't show up until the second half of the 19th century. If it showed up before, why were so many people still using dip-pens?

http://www.throughouthistory.com/ - My Blog on History & Antiques

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is a corrected link for the Wikipedia article.

The point about the reliability of Wikipedia is well taken; I myself have periodically gone in to that particular article to prune out misinformation, which keeps on getting reinserted. The 10th-century reference, however, is correctly described as the earliest reference to a working fountain pen known to date.

 

The reasons why dip pens were favored so long are fairly straightforward. First, dip pens were extremely cheap -- like our disposable ballpoints. It really was only with the success of the stylographic pen in the latter half of the 1870s that fountain pens were able to become a mass-produced item. Before then, they were produced in relatively small numbers, and priced accordingly.

 

I also find the application of the term "practical" problematic. When was the first "practical" automobile made? When was the first "practical" airplane? By current standards, earlier iterations of such inventions are typically clumsy, unreliable, and generally inadequate. Yet in their own time, they were eminently practical, real advancements on what had come before. It is no different for fountain pens: their history is more one of steady improvement, rather than a sudden arrival at "practical". That said, there is one decade that can be singled out as of key importance in fountain pen evolution, and that would be c. 1855-1865. In that span, hard rubber became available for the first time, which was far better suited to the application than anything previously available for fountain pen manufacture.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have seen a number of sources refering to this story of a pen with a reservoir dating from ten centuries ago. However, had such an instrument been truly effective, I would believe it would have been replicated and fabricated in large numbers from then on. The caliphs of the world power centres of these times, Cairo, Bagdad, Granada, even the emperor in Constantinople (Istanbul today), would have had an interest in making such an instrument available to the army of scribes that were required to run their state administrations. Such an instrument may have been fabricated, but I would believe, given the technology available during this period, that it would have been a "one of a kind", made by an artisan. Strangely, not one other similar writing implement was made for the next 900 years. Fountain pens have not been around for a very long time.

 

Two thousand years ago, Romans used a stylus to make notes on wax tablets, which they would hand over to slaves (scribes, office clerks, in private or public employment) for copying them on papyrus. The writing instrument that was used to write on papyrus is a reed pen. Quills came into use much later, towards the end of the Roman Empire, and were not really suited to write on papyrus. At the end of the Roman Empire, political, social and commercial networks broke down. The only regular source of papyrus was in Egypt (and still is today). When the Roman administration dissolved with the fall of the empire, there was no need for an army of scribes any more. Writing was then preserved in monasteries and was dedicated to conserving, interpreting, and saving the word of God until the modern state started taking form, universities were instituted, and commercial and financial networks were created, all starting in the late Middle Ages. Parchment, or animal skin to be blunt, was adopted as a substitute to papyrus. A quill pen (form "penne", the Latin word for feather) is much more flexible than a reed pen, and much more suited to write on parchment than a reed pen. Thus, quills became the most common writing instrument for around fifteen centuries, until the Industrial Revolution allowed the manufacture of steel nibs, around the early part of the XIXth century, around 1820.

 

While he may not have "invented" the first "fountain" pen, Waterman did obtain a patent for the mechanism that allowed better control of the flow of ink from the reservoir to the tip of the nib -- the capillary principle. He was also, to my knowledge, the first to start manufacturing pens with reservoirs on an industrial scale. Thus, reservoir (fountain) pens really came to be of practical use at the end of the XIXth century, around 125 years ago. Yet, fountain pens were not really affordable at first. It took another few decades before they became common and really practical.

 

Wikipedia is an interesting source of information. I use it all the time, keeping into consideration its nature. Sometimes, the information is reliable. But one does have to take it with a critical approach, as with all sources of information. As Shanga says, verify the sources.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why are they called "fountain" pens. Surely "reservoir" pens would be more accurate. They never produce a fountain unless you squirt the plunger mechanism when you are cleaning them. However, I decided to look in The Shorter Oxford Dictionary under fountain, and in sense 4, it states: "Fountain - A reservoir or compartment for holding oil, ink, etc., in a printing press …". So it seems to have originated in the printing industry. Any further comment would be appreciated.

 

John

Favourite pens in my collection (in alpha order): Caran d'Ache Ecridor Chevron F and Leman Black/Silver F; Parker 51 Aerometric M and F; Parker 61 Insignia M, Parker Duofold Senior F; Platinum #3776 Century M; Sailor 1911 Black/Gold 21 Kt M; Sheaffer Crest Palladium M/F; Sheaffer Prelude Silver/Palladium Snakeskin Pattern F; Waterman Carene Deluxe Silver F

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  On 3/24/2011 at 2:10 PM, Fernan said:

I have seen a number of sources refering to this story of a pen with a reservoir dating from ten centuries ago. However, had such an instrument been truly effective, I would believe it would have been replicated and fabricated in large numbers from then on. The caliphs of the world power centres of these times, Cairo, Bagdad, Granada, even the emperor in Constantinople (Istanbul today), would have had an interest in making such an instrument available to the army of scribes that were required to run their state administrations. Such an instrument may have been fabricated, but I would believe, given the technology available during this period, that it would have been a "one of a kind", made by an artisan. Strangely, not one other similar writing implement was made for the next 900 years. Fountain pens have not been around for a very long time.

 

There is actually only one primary source for the 10th-century fountain pen, though it has been widely referenced by historians. There is no reason to doubt the veracity of that source, though it is certainly valid to question how efficient that early fountain pen really was. Yet even if it was fully functional, there are many good reasons why it would not have been replicated. An autocrat's toy was special because only he had one. It was a status symbol more than a tool.

 

The materials available in that era were also not well suited to making a durable fountain pen, and manufacture would have been very expensive in comparison to a scribe's normal tools. Nor is it clear that fountain pens would have increased the scribes' efficiency -- or, indeed, that the rulers of the day were at all interested in improving scribal efficiency.

 

Given the lacunae in the historical record, it is more than likely that other workable fountain pens were made by skilled artisans for a handful of elite patrons over the following centuries.

 

If you take a brief look at the literature, you will also see that there are mentions of fountain pens in the West starting in the 16th century, with the earliest surviving datable example going back to 1702. Quite a few examples of 18th-century fountain pens are extant, most of French or English manufacture. Some may in fact date to the 17th century, as their design changed little. There was a rash of activity in England in the first half of the 19th century as well, with a number of ingenious patented designs produced in numbers significant enough for multiple examples to have survived.

So fountain pens have been around for quite some time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  On 3/24/2011 at 2:10 PM, Fernan said:
While he may not have "invented" the first "fountain" pen, Waterman did obtain a patent for the mechanism that allowed better control of the flow of ink from the reservoir to the tip of the nib -- the capillary principle. He was also, to my knowledge, the first to start manufacturing pens with reservoirs on an industrial scale. Thus, reservoir (fountain) pens really came to be of practical use at the end of the XIXth century, around 125 years ago. Yet, fountain pens were not really affordable at first. It took another few decades before they became common and really practical.

 

As I noted above, the first reservoir pens manufactured on an industrial scale were the stylographic pens of MacKinnon, Cross, et al -- which predated Waterman's entry into the market by several years and greatly facilitated it as well (where do you think he ordered his parts made?). Waterman's production was also quite small for the first few years, and in fact appears to have been far less than his main rival, Wirt -- and probably less than Mabie Todd's fountain pen production at the time, too.

 

As for affordability, prices of fountain pens dropped fast. Truly cheap examples were readily available within a decade of Waterman's entry into the business.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  On 3/24/2011 at 6:29 PM, Vintagepens said:
  On 3/24/2011 at 2:10 PM, Fernan said:

I have seen a number of sources refering to this story of a pen with a reservoir dating from ten centuries ago. However, had such an instrument been truly effective, I would believe it would have been replicated and fabricated in large numbers from then on. The caliphs of the world power centres of these times, Cairo, Bagdad, Granada, even the emperor in Constantinople (Istanbul today), would have had an interest in making such an instrument available to the army of scribes that were required to run their state administrations. Such an instrument may have been fabricated, but I would believe, given the technology available during this period, that it would have been a "one of a kind", made by an artisan. Strangely, not one other similar writing implement was made for the next 900 years. Fountain pens have not been around for a very long time.

 

There is actually only one primary source for the 10th-century fountain pen, though it has been widely referenced by historians. There is no reason to doubt the veracity of that source, though it is certainly valid to question how efficient that early fountain pen really was. Yet even if it was fully functional, there are many good reasons why it would not have been replicated. An autocrat's toy was special because only he had one. It was a status symbol more than a tool.

 

The materials available in that era were also not well suited to making a durable fountain pen, and manufacture would have been very expensive in comparison to a scribe's normal tools. Nor is it clear that fountain pens would have increased the scribes' efficiency -- or, indeed, that the rulers of the day were at all interested in improving scribal efficiency.

 

Given the lacunae in the historical record, it is more than likely that other workable fountain pens were made by skilled artisans for a handful of elite patrons over the following centuries.

 

If you take a brief look at the literature, you will also see that there are mentions of fountain pens in the West starting in the 16th century, with the earliest surviving datable example going back to 1702. Quite a few examples of 18th-century fountain pens are extant, most of French or English manufacture. Some may in fact date to the 17th century, as their design changed little. There was a rash of activity in England in the first half of the 19th century as well, with a number of ingenious patented designs produced in numbers significant enough for multiple examples to have survived.

So fountain pens have been around for quite some time.

 

I do not doubt the veracity of the 10th century pen. And I see that you agree that it is valid to question the efficiency of this instrument. As for the rest, it is all conjecture: I don't see why rulers of that period would not be interested in improving scribal efficiency. But I do agree with you that manufacturing such an implement would have been costly, and it would not have made sense to substitute it to the scribes' normal tools (which in Muslim countries, would have been the calamus, not the quill).

 

I don't see why it would be likely that other workable pens would have been designed over the following five centuries. What we do know is that we have no record of any being made until the 1500s. Leonardo da Vinci tried to design one, and failed.

 

I agree that there have been attempts made to manufacture a pen with a reservoir throughout the last four or five centuries. All professional writers would have loved to have such an writing instrument, one that was really reliable, as reliable as the quill. However, those that were made were not common, nor were they readilly available. If they had been, I'm convinced Lope de Vega, Voltaire, Locke, and specially the great explorers of the 16th, 17th, and 18th century, Cook, Champlain, Louis Jolliet, Lewis and Clarke, would have appreciated having that kind of tool. As you point out, the first stylographic pens were designed in the 19th century, just a few decades before Waterman designed his pen. What the industrial revolution allowed was the design and the mass production of steel nibs. These, used as dip pens, were the real substitutes to quills until fountain pens became available at the end of the 19th century.

 

So while, pens with reservoirs may have been around for some time, I would argue that they did not become really practical or available for widespread common use until about 125 years ago. If such had been the case, writers would have started using them much earlier than they have.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  On 3/24/2011 at 6:35 PM, Vintagepens said:
  On 3/24/2011 at 2:10 PM, Fernan said:
While he may not have "invented" the first "fountain" pen, Waterman did obtain a patent for the mechanism that allowed better control of the flow of ink from the reservoir to the tip of the nib -- the capillary principle. He was also, to my knowledge, the first to start manufacturing pens with reservoirs on an industrial scale. Thus, reservoir (fountain) pens really came to be of practical use at the end of the XIXth century, around 125 years ago. Yet, fountain pens were not really affordable at first. It took another few decades before they became common and really practical.

 

As I noted above, the first reservoir pens manufactured on an industrial scale were the stylographic pens of MacKinnon, Cross, et al -- which predated Waterman's entry into the market by several years and greatly facilitated it as well (where do you think he ordered his parts made?). Waterman's production was also quite small for the first few years, and in fact appears to have been far less than his main rival, Wirt -- and probably less than Mabie Todd's fountain pen production at the time, too.

 

As for affordability, prices of fountain pens dropped fast. Truly cheap examples were readily available within a decade of Waterman's entry into the business.

 

I stand corrected on the issue of the manufacture of reservoir pens on an industrial scale.

 

Yet, as for availability.

 

I just checked the 1908 Eaton's Spring and Summer catologue for fountain pens. They did offer a stylographic pen for 0.75$ Canadian. The cheapest fountain pen was 1$ CDA, most were from 1.50$ to 3.00$ CDA.How many days would the average clerk have had to work in order to buy one?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the 1900s...

 

A Ford cost about 800 dollars.

A bottle of coke cost five cents.

A film-ticket cost five cents (hence the term 'nickelodeon').

A cheap pocket-watch cost about $1.

A good pocketwatch cost about $30.

 

I believe a decent fountain pen cost about $3 (give or take a bit).

 

As for wages, I'm not sure.

Edited by Shangas

http://www.throughouthistory.com/ - My Blog on History & Antiques

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  On 3/24/2011 at 10:48 PM, Shangas said:

 

As for wages, I'm not sure.

 

Because of The Great Depression (1929-1939), or "The Dirty Thirties" as they are known in Canada, the typical wage was $1.00 per day at that time -- $3.00 for a really good job. My 85-year-old uncle still carries around a wage stub for his yearly earnings in 1942: $363! Even though taxes weren't as heavy as they are now, that's still less than 1% of a current decent Canadian job.

 

$300+ for a modern everyday-use fountain pen? Sure, there are some, but this typical Canadian is still too stingy to fork out that kind of money!!

"If gold ruste, what shal iren do?" Geoffrey Chaucer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  On 3/24/2011 at 7:35 PM, Fernan said:
  On 3/24/2011 at 6:29 PM, Vintagepens said:
  On 3/24/2011 at 2:10 PM, Fernan said:

I have seen a number of sources refering to this story of a pen with a reservoir dating from ten centuries ago. However, had such an instrument been truly effective, I would believe it would have been replicated and fabricated in large numbers from then on. The caliphs of the world power centres of these times, Cairo, Bagdad, Granada, even the emperor in Constantinople (Istanbul today), would have had an interest in making such an instrument available to the army of scribes that were required to run their state administrations. Such an instrument may have been fabricated, but I would believe, given the technology available during this period, that it would have been a "one of a kind", made by an artisan. Strangely, not one other similar writing implement was made for the next 900 years. Fountain pens have not been around for a very long time.

 

There is actually only one primary source for the 10th-century fountain pen, though it has been widely referenced by historians. There is no reason to doubt the veracity of that source, though it is certainly valid to question how efficient that early fountain pen really was. Yet even if it was fully functional, there are many good reasons why it would not have been replicated. An autocrat's toy was special because only he had one. It was a status symbol more than a tool.

 

The materials available in that era were also not well suited to making a durable fountain pen, and manufacture would have been very expensive in comparison to a scribe's normal tools. Nor is it clear that fountain pens would have increased the scribes' efficiency -- or, indeed, that the rulers of the day were at all interested in improving scribal efficiency.

 

Given the lacunae in the historical record, it is more than likely that other workable fountain pens were made by skilled artisans for a handful of elite patrons over the following centuries.

 

If you take a brief look at the literature, you will also see that there are mentions of fountain pens in the West starting in the 16th century, with the earliest surviving datable example going back to 1702. Quite a few examples of 18th-century fountain pens are extant, most of French or English manufacture. Some may in fact date to the 17th century, as their design changed little. There was a rash of activity in England in the first half of the 19th century as well, with a number of ingenious patented designs produced in numbers significant enough for multiple examples to have survived.

So fountain pens have been around for quite some time.

 

I do not doubt the veracity of the 10th century pen. And I see that you agree that it is valid to question the efficiency of this instrument. As for the rest, it is all conjecture: I don't see why rulers of that period would not be interested in improving scribal efficiency. But I do agree with you that manufacturing such an implement would have been costly, and it would not have made sense to substitute it to the scribes' normal tools (which in Muslim countries, would have been the calamus, not the quill).

 

I don't see why it would be likely that other workable pens would have been designed over the following five centuries. What we do know is that we have no record of any being made until the 1500s. Leonardo da Vinci tried to design one, and failed.

 

I agree that there have been attempts made to manufacture a pen with a reservoir throughout the last four or five centuries. All professional writers would have loved to have such an writing instrument, one that was really reliable, as reliable as the quill. However, those that were made were not common, nor were they readilly available. If they had been, I'm convinced Lope de Vega, Voltaire, Locke, and specially the great explorers of the 16th, 17th, and 18th century, Cook, Champlain, Louis Jolliet, Lewis and Clarke, would have appreciated having that kind of tool. As you point out, the first stylographic pens were designed in the 19th century, just a few decades before Waterman designed his pen. What the industrial revolution allowed was the design and the mass production of steel nibs. These, used as dip pens, were the real substitutes to quills until fountain pens became available at the end of the 19th century.

 

So while, pens with reservoirs may have been around for some time, I would argue that they did not become really practical or available for widespread common use until about 125 years ago. If such had been the case, writers would have started using them much earlier than they have.

 

Wondering about this? All conjecture? I think that the question was about the very first fountain pen, rather then when it became easily available? Waterman's certainly made the fountain more available, and far more reliable.

 

But the origins of the fountain pen do back a long way, into the almost lost mists of time.

 

Sadly no pens from the old tenth century caliph survive today. But here's a great description/dream of what it must have looked like.

 

'When Mu'izz mentioned the pen he described its merits and regarded it as the symbol of the secret of knowledge; he then said he would like

to make a pen which would write without the need of an inkpot.

 

Such a pen, said the Caliph, would be self-supplying and have the ink inside.One could write what one wanted with it but as soon as one relinquished it the ink would disappear and the pen would become dry. The writer could keep such a pen in his sleeve without fearing any mark of filtration of the ink for the ink would filter only when the pen wrote. It would certainly be a wonderful instrument and one without precedent.

 

In a few days the craftsman to whom the pen had been described brought a modelmade of gold. After filling it with ink, he was able to write with it. But as more ink came out than was needed, the craftsman was ordered to alter it. Finally the pen was brought back repaired. It was turned over in the hand and tilted in all directions and no ink appeared. But as soon as he took it and began to write, he wrote the best hand for as long as he

wished and when he took the pen away from the paper the ink vanished.

 

Thus I beheld a wonderful work the like of which I had never thought to see.'

 

So said an early admirer of the fountain pen in the Fatimid dynasty (about 953 AD).

 

In the early 18th century, the Bion pen, named for its inventor was invented in France There are still a few examples of this pen around today.

 

As for writers, Samuel Pepys used a fountain pen to write his famous diary in the sixteenth century. At the same time the Alexander Burgess hardware shop was advertising fountain pens for sale in its shop.

post-42839-0-04667100-1301013070.jpg

Edited by penguina

[/b ] Penguina[size=5][/size]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  On 3/25/2011 at 1:05 AM, penguina said:

In the early 18th century, the Bion pen, named for its inventor was invented in France There are still a few examples of this pen around today.

 

As for writers, Samuel Pepys used a fountain pen to write his famous diary in the sixteenth century. At the same time the Alexander Burgess hardware shop was advertising fountain pens for sale in its shop.

 

There is a lot of misinformation that is constantly being repeated about the so-called Bion pens.

Nicholas Bion, renowned French scientific instrument maker, described a certain type of early fountain pen in a treatise published at the beginning of the 18th century. Bion never claimed to be the inventor, nor did he patent such a pen. Its actual invention undoubtedly predates its description by a good number of years, placing its origins somewhere in the 17th century.

 

For more on the Pepys reference see this thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  On 3/25/2011 at 2:32 AM, Vintagepens said:
  On 3/25/2011 at 1:05 AM, penguina said:

In the early 18th century, the Bion pen, named for its inventor was invented in France There are still a few examples of this pen around today.

 

As for writers, Samuel Pepys used a fountain pen to write his famous diary in the sixteenth century. At the same time the Alexander Burgess hardware shop was advertising fountain pens for sale in its shop.

 

There is a lot of misinformation that is constantly being repeated about the so-called Bion pens.

Nicholas Bion, renowned French scientific instrument maker, described a certain type of early fountain pen in a treatise published at the beginning of the 18th century. Bion never claimed to be the inventor, nor did he patent such a pen. Its actual invention undoubtedly predates its description by a good number of years, placing its origins somewhere in the 17th century.

 

For more on the Pepys reference see this thread.

 

Hi David.

 

Yes, you are right here. Sorry about the wrong use of the word "inventor", rather than the word "designer" to describe Bion's pen. You are abslutely right!

 

And you are right in saying that fountain pens existed before this, most probably as "Quills with reservoirs" to make up a descriptive phrase. Here's just one known exapmple:

 

"In 1636, Daniel Schwenter published "Delicia Physic-Mathematicae" in Nurenberg. In it, he described a pen made from two quills with one serving as an ink reservoir inside the other. Cork sealed the ink inside and a gentle squeeze moved the ink through a small hole to the writing point."

 

This information on the use of Quill pens used as reservoir pens came from a great essay on the history of pens from the Pen Lover's network at http://www.penlovers.net/index.cfm?t=resources&s=fph

 

(do hope that this link works)

 

What I meant to say, sorry that I expressed it badly, is that in the 18th century, Bion wrote "The Construction and Principal Uses of Mathematical Instruments," which depicts the first (known) illustration of a metal fountain pen.

 

He designed (and had made) the first fountain pens that are still in existence today. Five examples of this pen left in collections today. Heres a photo of one taken from the article mentioned above:

post-42839-0-33038600-1301022928.jpg

[/b ] Penguina[size=5][/size]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  On 3/25/2011 at 3:26 AM, penguina said:

He designed (and had made) the first fountain pens that are still in existence today. Five examples of this pen left in collections today.

 

I really don't want to keep hammering away at everyone, but this is a field that is of great interest to me, and it pains me no end to see erroneous information circulated.

 

As far as I know, there is no evidence to date that Nicholas Bion did anything more than describe the early metal fountain pens that have in recent years become associated with his name. Unless you have discovered some new evidence that has yet to be disseminated among historians of early writing equipment, it cannot be claimed that Bion designed such pens, or had them made.

 

There are also quite a few more than five examples extant. I own two myself, one in brass, the other in gold with a green leather covering. It would be a worthwhile project to do a census of surviving examples, and perhaps I should undertake it. I know of only a few other of the fancier examples, including one covered in pearl slabs, but I've seen several of the brass ones, including at least two with a swirled encaustic finish.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  On 3/25/2011 at 1:57 PM, Vintagepens said:

 

As far as I know, there is no evidence to date that Nicholas Bion did anything more than describe the early metal fountain pens that have in recent years become associated with his name. Unless you have discovered some new evidence that has yet to be disseminated among historians of early writing equipment, it cannot be claimed that Bion designed such pens, or had them made.

 

There are also quite a few more than five examples extant. I own two myself, one in brass, the other in gold with a green leather covering. It would be a worthwhile project to do a census of surviving examples, and perhaps I should undertake it. I know of only a few other of the fancier examples, including one covered in pearl slabs, but I've seen several of the brass ones, including at least two with a swirled encaustic finish.

 

What a good Idea! Insprired! It would be great if you could undertake this project of gathering a census of seventeenth century fountain pens, and hopefully putting some pictures of them for all of us to share here.

 

And Bion, no, There is no way, I think, that I could check out if Nicolas Bion did actaully make that pen in his busy workshop, one that turned out so many other measuring and mathematical devices. You would really need the original archives for that.

 

It must be very frustrating not to be able to get hold of any evidence here!

 

This is certainly true. But I was deeply interested in the description of the pens that you mention above, with pearl slab and swirled encaustic finish.

 

I am thinking of the deep Islamic/Middle Eastern connection here. After all the Egyptians were the ones who supposedly started this fountain pen business about 700 years previously. And I am sure that you are aware that Nicolas(and his son) had many encounters and dealings with the Middle Eastern world through the court of Louis X1V and XV. He even signed his name in Arabic: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=J3G4quReeVcC&pg=PA315&lpg=PA315&dq=nicolas+Bion+muslim&source=bl&ots=ErcLVYJK7A&sig=pjXbOarR3903GAWGj2qr-7lvztE&hl=en&ei=dQuQTYndJIywvgOF4OSkDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

So, I am left with so many questions here. Did Bion get any influence from the Middle Eastern World? Do any of these pens look Arabic?

 

And: Strangely, another thing that puzzles me here, is that there seems to my knowledge, no old pens that have survived from the medieval or later Arabic/Middle Eastern kingdoms and empires. I wonder why this is true, when so many beautiful old pen cases ( qalamdan ) have survived? The Middle Eastern pen is said to be a simple reed pen (qalam ), and may not have survived the generations. Yet, I have seen examples of this type of pen in the British Museum from Ancient Egypt, that are thousands of years older. I feel that there is real puzzle here.

 

I wonder if anyone else is puzzled by this also.

 

Also, now, I am going to disagree with myself, as well. I said that these so-called "Bion" fountain pens were the oldest that still survive. But this may not be true. Recently, I heard of an old bone pen, found in a Romanian Monastary dating back to about the 5/6 and slighter later centuries, and now housed in the Rus museum. It has the head of a man carved into the top of the pen.

 

http://www.muzejras.org/arheologija_srv_e.html

 

(see the small pictures on the right side, before the text. the strange item is about the ninth down)

 

But sadly, at this date, to my knowledge, it remains unclassified and undescribed. I wonder if this will turn out to be the oldest fountain pen still around?

 

I am certainly intrigued as to what it could be?

[/b ] Penguina[size=5][/size]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Most Contributions

    1. amberleadavis
      amberleadavis
      43972
    2. PAKMAN
      PAKMAN
      34676
    3. inkstainedruth
      inkstainedruth
      28979
    4. Ghost Plane
      Ghost Plane
      28220
    5. Bo Bo Olson
      Bo Bo Olson
      27201
  • Upcoming Events

  • Blog Comments

  • Chatbox

    You don't have permission to chat.
    • inktastic.adventures 28 Apr 21:45
      @finzi! Thanks 😀
    • cat74 28 Apr 3:57
      A few pens in the last month or so!
    • Guy M 25 Apr 18:03
      Hi, I am new here. Hello! Seriously affliced by impulse buying old pens. See my posts for latest follies.
    • finzi 24 Apr 16:52
      @inktastic.adventures Yes, very active! Come on in, the water’s lovely. 🙂
    • inktastic.adventures 22 Apr 3:32
      Hi there! Just joined. Are the forums no longer active?
    • Mercian 19 Apr 20:51
      @bhavini If I were you I would not buy a dip-pen. They don't replicate the flow characteristics of fountain pens, and they will work well with some inks that will clog fountain pens. Instead of a dip-pen, I would buy a relatively-inexpensive pen that is easy to clean. E.g. a Parker Frontier and a converter for it. Its nib/feed-unit can be unscrewed from the pen, so cleaning it is very very easy.
    • finzi 18 Apr 21:44
      @bhavini I ordered a Sailor Hocoro today, to use for testing. I’ll let you know what it’s like. You can get different nib sizes for it, so maybe more versatile than a glass dip pen.
    • Claes 17 Apr 8:19
      @bhavini A glass nibbed pen
    • InkyProf 16 Apr 23:32
      @Jeffrey Sher it looks like this user used to be the organizer of the club https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/profile/8343-hj1/ perhaps you could send him a direct message, although his profile says he hasn't been on the site since 2021.
    • Jeffrey Sher 16 Apr 12:00
      CANNOT FIND A LINK to pen club israel. what is eth website please
    • Penguincollector 15 Apr 22:48
      @bhavini, I really like the Sailor Hocoro dip pen. It’s inexpensive, easy to clean, and if you get one with a nib that has a feed, you can get quite a few lines of writing before you have to dip again. I have a fude nib, which I use for swatching and line variation while writing.
    • TheQuillDeal 15 Apr 18:58
      lamarax, thank you for a well-informed response! I've been worried that FountainPenHospital in NYC would suffer...
    • bhavini 15 Apr 18:28
      What's a relatively cheap tool for a newbie to use to try out new inks, without inking up a pen? I've a bunch of ink samples on their way but I just want to play around with them before I decide on which ones I want to buy more of for writing. I've never used anything except a fountain pen to write with ink before.
    • Penguincollector 15 Apr 17:03
      Hello @Jeffrey Sher, pen club information can be found in the Pen Clubs, Meetings, and Events sub forum. If you use Google site search you can find information specific to Israel.
    • Jeffrey Sher 14 Apr 8:25
      Shalom just joined . I have been collection fountain pens for many years. I believe there is a club in Israel that meets monthly. please let me have details. .
    • lamarax 11 Apr 0:58
      It's gonna end where 1929 left us: a world war, shambles, and 'growth by rebuilding'. That's the conservative view of cycling history --and the big plan. Even if our generations perish.
    • lamarax 11 Apr 0:49
      Of course trade wars are much, more important than the prices of consumer products. The true intention is to weaken the dollar, so that the Chinese start selling their US held debt. But the dollar being the defacto world reserve currency, it doesn't lose value that easily. So the idea is to target trade through artificially raising prices. Problem is, inflation will skyrocket. Good luck with that.
    • lamarax 11 Apr 0:33
      Guess who loses
    • lamarax 11 Apr 0:30
      In Europe, the only (truly) American produced brand is Esterbrook AFAIK. Tariffs will make Esterbrook products compete on the same level as some high-end European brands (let's say Aurora), while clearly the product is manufactured to compete on a much lower price level.
    • lamarax 11 Apr 0:24
      So let's say you want to buy a Montblanc or whatever. You pay the current tariff on top of the usual price, unless your local distributor is willing to absorb (some) of the difference
    • lamarax 11 Apr 0:20
      Tariffs are paid by the importer, not the exporter.
    • TheQuillDeal 10 Apr 2:44
      Can anyone explain how the tariff war will affect fountain pen prices??
    • Penguincollector Today 15:07
      Oh yes, pictures are on the “ I got this pen today” thread.
    • lectraplayer 29 Mar 9:19
      Is it here yet?
    • Penguincollector 26 Mar 5:00
      I just got the tracking information for my Starwalker💃🏻
    • T.D. Rabbit 3 Mar 12:46
      @lamarax I am horrified... And slightly intrigued. But mostly just scared.
    • lamarax 2 Mar 20:38
      Oh well. In case of failure you can always wring the paper to have a nice -albeit somewhat stale- cup of coffee back.
    • T.D. Rabbit 2 Mar 10:20
      @Astronymus I could use cornstarch... Or i could distill it and make it very concentrated.
    • T.D. Rabbit 2 Mar 10:20
      @lamarax That's what I used! (In reply to black coffee).. But the milk might not be good at all for paper.
    • Grayfeather 2 Mar 0:08
      Good day, all.
    • Gertrude F 20 Feb 17:58
      Sorry think I posted this in the wrong place. Used to be a user, just re-upped. Be kind. 😑
    • Gertrude F 20 Feb 17:56
      Looking to sell huge lot of pretty much every Man 200 made - FP, BP, MP, one or two RBs. Does anyone have a suggestion for a bulk purhase house? Thanks - and hope this doesn't violate any rules.
    • lamarax 17 Feb 18:05
      Cappuccino should work. Frothy milk also helps to lubricate the nib. But it has to be made by a barista.
    • Astronymus 17 Feb 16:19
      YOu might need to thicken the coffee with something. I admit I have no idea with what. But I'm pretty sure it would work.
    • asnailmailer 3 Feb 17:35
      it is incowrimo time and only very few people are tempting me
    • lamarax 31 Jan 21:34
      Try black coffee. No sugar.
    • T.D. Rabbit 31 Jan 8:11
      Coffee is too light to write with though I've tried.
    • Astronymus 29 Jan 21:46
      You can use coffee and all other kinds of fluid with a glas pen. 😉
    • Roger Zhao 29 Jan 14:37
      chocolate is yummy
    • Bucefalo 17 Jan 9:59
      anyone sells vacumatic push button shafts
    • stxrling 13 Jan 1:25
      Are there any threads or posts up yet about the California Pen Show in February, does anyone know?
    • lamarax 10 Jan 20:27
      Putting coffee in a fountain pen is far more dangerous
    • asnailmailer 9 Jan 0:09
      Don't drink the ink
    • zug zug 8 Jan 16:48
      Coffee inks or coffee, the drink? Both are yummy though.
    • LandyVlad 8 Jan 5:37
      I hear the price of coffee is going up. WHich is bad because I like coffee.
    • asnailmailer 6 Jan 14:43
      time for a nice cup of tea
    • Just J 25 Dec 1:57
      @liauyat re editing profile: At forum page top, find the Search panel. Just above that you should see your user name with a tiny down arrow [🔽] alongside. Click that & scroll down to CONTENT, & under that, Profile. Click that, & edit 'til thy heart's content!
    • liapuyat 12 Dec 12:20
      I can't seem to edit my profile, which is years out of date, because I've only returned to FPN again recently. How do you fix it?
    • mattaw 5 Dec 14:25
      @lantanagal did you do anything to fix that? I get that page every time I try to go to edit my profile...
    • Penguincollector 30 Nov 19:14
      Super excited to go check out the PDX Pen Bazaar today. I volunteered to help set up tables. It should be super fun, followed by Xmas tree shopping. 😁
    • niuben 30 Nov 10:41
      @Nurse Ratchet
    • Nurse Ratchet 30 Nov 2:49
      Newbie here!!! Helloall
    • Emes 25 Nov 23:31
      jew
    • Misfit 9 Nov 2:38
      lantanagal, I’ve only seen that happen when you put someone on the ignore list. I doubt a friend would do that.
    • lantanagal 7 Nov 19:01
      UPDATE - FIXED NOW Exact message is: Requested page not available! Dear Visitor of the Fountain Pen Nuthouse The page you are requesting to visit is not available to you. You are not authorised to access the requested page. Regards, The FPN Admin Team November 7, 2024
    • lantanagal 7 Nov 18:59
      UPDATE - FIXED NOW Trying to send a pen friend a reply to a message, keep getting an error message to say I don't have access. Anyone any ideas? (tried logging our and back in to no avail)
    • Dr.R 2 Nov 16:58
      Raina’s
    • fireant 2 Nov 1:36
      Fine-have you had a nibmeister look at it?
    • carlos.q 29 Oct 15:19
      @FineFinerFinest: have you seen this thread? https://www.fountainpennetwor...nging-pelikan-nibs/#comments
    • FineFinerFinest 24 Oct 8:52
      No replies required to my complaints about the Pelikan. A friend came to the rescue with some very magnification equipment - with the images thrown to a latge high res screen. Technology is a wonderful thing. Thanks to Mercian for the reply. I had been using the same paper & ink for sometime when the "singing" started. I have a theory but no proof that nibs get damaged when capping the pen. 👍
    • Mercian 22 Oct 22:28
      @FineFinerFinest: sometimes nib-'singing' can be lessened - or even cured - by changing the ink that one is putting through the pen, or the paper that one is using. N.b. *sometimes*. Good luck
    • Bluetaco 22 Oct 22:04
      howdy
    • FineFinerFinest 21 Oct 5:23
      I'm not expecting any replies to my question about the singing Pelikan nib. It seems, from reading the background, that I am not alone. It's a nice pen. It's such a pity Pelikan can't make decent nibs. I have occasionally met users who tell me how wonderful their Pelikan nib is. I've spent enough money to know that not everyone has this experience. I've worked on nibs occasionally over forty years with great success. This one has me beaten. I won't be buying any more Pelikan pens. 👎
    • FineFinerFinest 21 Oct 4:27
      I've had a Pelikan M805 for a couple of years now and cannot get the nib to write without singing. I've worked on dozens of nibs with great success. Ny suggestion about what's going wrong? 😑
    • Bhakt 12 Oct 5:45
      Any feedback in 100th anniversary Mont Blanc green pens?
    • Glens pens 8 Oct 15:08
      @jordierocks94 i happen to have platinum preppy that has wrote like (bleep) since i bought it my second pen....is that something you would wish to practice on?
    • jordierocks94 4 Oct 6:26
      Hello all - New here. My Art studies have spilled me into the ft pen world where I am happily submerged and floating! I'm looking to repair some cheap pens that are starving for ink yet filled, and eventually get new nibs; and development of repair skills (an even longer learning curve than my art studies - lol). Every hobby needs a hobby, eh ...
    • The_Beginner 18 Sept 23:35
      horse notebooks if you search the title should still appear though it wont show you in your proflie
    • Jayme Brener 16 Sept 22:21
      Hi, guys. I wonder if somebody knows who manufactured the Coro fountain pens.
    • TheHorseNotebooks 16 Sept 13:11
      Hello, it's been ages for me since I was here last time. I had a post (http://www.fountainpennetwork...-notebooks/?view=getnewpost) but I see that it is no longer accessible. Is there anyway to retrieve that one?
    • Refujio Rodriguez 16 Sept 5:39
      I have a match stick simplomatic with a weidlich nib. Does anyone know anything about this pen?
    • The_Beginner 15 Sept 16:11
      dusty yes, glen welcome
    • Glens pens 11 Sept 1:22
      Hello, Im new to FPN I'm so happy to find other foutain penattics. collecting almost one year ,thought I would say hello to everyone.
    • DustyBin 8 Sept 14:34
      I haven't been here for ages... do I take it that private sales are no longer allowed? Also used to be a great place to sell and buy some great pens
    • Sailor Kenshin 1 Sept 12:37
      Lol…
    • JungleJim 1 Sept 1:55
      Perhaps it's like saying Beetlejuice 3 times to get that person to appear, though with @Sailor Kenshin you only have to say it twice?
    • Sailor Kenshin 31 Aug 21:06
      ?
    • Duffy 29 Aug 19:31
      @Sailor Kenshin @Sailor Kenshin
    • Seney724 26 Aug 22:07
    • Diablo 26 Aug 22:05
      Thank you so much, Seney724. I really appreciate your help!
    • Seney724 26 Aug 21:43
      I have no ties or relationship. Just a very happy customer. He is a very experienced Montblanc expert.
    • Seney724 26 Aug 21:42
      I strongly recommend Kirk Speer at https://www.penrealm.com/
    • Diablo 26 Aug 21:35
      @Seney724. The pen was recently disassembled and cleaned, but the nib and feed were not properly inserted into the holder. I'm in Maryland.
    • Diablo 26 Aug 21:32
      @Seney724. The nib section needs to be adjusted properly.
    • Seney724 26 Aug 18:16
      @Diablo. Where are you? What does it need?
    • Diablo 26 Aug 16:58
      Seeking EXPERIENCED, REPUTABLE service/repair for my 149. PLEASE help!!!
    • Penguincollector 19 Aug 19:42
      @Marta Val, reach out to @terim, who runs Peyton Street Pens and is very knowledgeable about Sheaffer pens
    • Marta Val 19 Aug 14:35
      Hello, could someone recommend a reliable venue: on line or brick and mortar in Fairfax, VA or Long Island, NY to purchase the soft parts and a converter to restore my dad's Sheaffer Legacy? please. Thanks a mill.
    • The_Beginner 18 Aug 2:49
      is there a guy who we can message to find a part for us with a given timelimit if so please let me know his name!
    • virtuoso 16 Aug 15:15
      what happene to the new Shaeffer inks?
    • Scribs 14 Aug 17:09
      fatehbajwa, in Writing Instruments, "Fountain Pens + Dip Pens First Stop" ?
    • fatehbajwa 14 Aug 12:17
      Back to FPN after 14 years. First thing I noticed is that I could not see a FS forum. What has changed? 🤔
    • Kika 5 Aug 10:22
      Are there any fountain pen collectors in Qatar?
    • T.D. Rabbit 31 July 18:58
      Ahh okay, thanks!
    • Scribs 29 July 18:51
      @ TDRabbit, even better would be in Creative Expressions area, subform The Write Stuff
    • T.D. Rabbit 29 July 11:40
      Okay, thanks!
    • JungleJim 29 July 0:46
      @T.D. Rabbit Try posting it in the "Chatter Forum". You have to be logged in to see it.
    • T.D. Rabbit 28 July 17:54
      Hello! Is there a thread anywhere 'round here where one can post self-composed poetry? If not, would it be alright if I made one? I searched on google, but to no avail...
    • OldFatDog 26 July 19:41
      I have several Parker Roller Ball & Fiber Tip refills in the original packaging. Where and how do I sell them? The couple that I've opened the ink still flowed when put to paper. Also if a pen would take the foller ball refill then it should take the fiber tip as well? Anyway it's been awhile and I'm want to take my message collection beyond the few pieces that I have... Meaning I don't have a Parker these refills will fit in 🙄
    • RegDiggins 23 July 12:40
      Recently was lucky enough to buy a pristine example of the CF crocodile ball with the gold plating. Then of course I faced the same problem we all have over the years ,of trying to find e refill. Fortunately I discovered one here in the U.K. I wonder if there are other sources which exist in other countries, by the way they were not cheap pen
    Load More
  • Files






×
×
  • Create New...