Copperplate newbie and nibs that catch

[plistumi]

I decided to teach myself copperplate. This is completely new to me. These past two weeks I have been practicing minuscules according to the Eleanor Winters book. I started with an oblique nib but I am left handed and found it incredibly uncomfortable to use and switched to a straight nib and am essentially writing practically in my baseline, natural position for writing.

 

I have used the Guillot 303, 404 and the Braun EF66 nibs and found that all three nibs catch on the paper on the upstrokes. I am using a copperplate practice sheet from Paper and Ink Arts. The 404 is quite stiff and flexes the least. It also cathces the least but I have to put a lot of pressure on it. The 303 flexes with very slight pressure but catches on nearly every upstroke. I have decreased the writing pressure on the upstrokes to practically just the weight of the penholder and sometimes the nib still catches. All my upstrokes look squiggly (as if I had an intention tremor, a la Parkinson's). The EF66 catches less than the 303 but it is soooo fine, it is hard to write larger letters with it (which I would rather do since I am learning). I have scanned a picture of a practice sheet. This one was done with the Guillot 303. If you run our hand over the writing, it feels as if I carved the letters on the paper. The ink is Noodler's bulletproof black.

 

Maybe I am writing letters that are to large? The x-height of the larger letters is 1/4 inch and of the small letters it is 1/8 inch.

 

Any suggestions? I am determined to learn this style of penmanship as well as I can. Thanks!

[caliken]

I think that a miniscule height of 1/8 inch is much too small for beginning practice. I would suggest 1/4 inch as about right. At that size, you'll see all the imperfections as you learn.

 

"I have decreased the writing pressure on the upstrokes to practically just the weight of the penholder...."

This is perfect!

 

It sounds to me as if your pen to paper angle is too steep. This would certainly account for the nib snagging.

 

With a normal hand grip, try extending the fingers. This will automatically lower the pen-to-paper angle. My own preference for Copperplate is the Gillott 303 nib.

 

Also, try to point the pen as close as possible to the slope line so that the tines don't twist on swelled strokes. This should be simpler for a left-hander.

 

BTW you've made excellent progress in a very short time.

 

good luck!

 

caliken

Edited April 13, 2010 by caliken

[Jamesiv1]

I agree with Caliken. It sounds like your nib to paper angle is too steep.

 

What kind of penholder do you have? Have you adjusted the flange at all?

 

Check out this article by Dr. Joe Vitolo on "Adjusting the Penholder"

 

http://www.iampeth.com/lessons/getting_started/adjusting.pdf

[wykpenguin]

Ah! A fellow lefty doing cursive. You can't adjust Speedball's plastic oblique holder but from what I read, I am guessing you are using a straight holder. I don't need the oblique holder to adjust the pen angle to match the slant, but I do use it to angle the pen to paper angle. Give that idea a try.

[jbb]

Your handwriting is absolutely gorgeous!!! I write with dip nibs most of the time and prefer nibs that are slightly firmer and not quite as fine as the ones you mention since I like to press hard when I write. You might want to test out a few nibs like that. PM me if you'd like to get a few nibs.

Edited April 13, 2010 by jbb

[jimk]

I found that very smooth paper was a big help. I don't remember what worked best - I just experimented with what was at hand. Ah, I think some Clairefontaine stationery was good.

[plistumi]

I will be hunting around for smoother paper. This practice paper is probably not the best, but the angled lines have been helpful. I have some Clairefontaine notebooks which I hope to use for practice as well. Has anybody had experience with using a laser printer to print guidelines on paper? Would the bagasse be a good bet?

 

After consciously changing the nib angle, most of the catching problems are gone away. Not all (look at the "g" on writing, hee, hee). Must still keep practicing until I find my sweet spot. Lots to learn: even writing, better letter spacing, maintaining a good angle, getting the "l" and "h" right, etc. So much to learn, so little time! Thank you for the help. This is quite a fascinating addition to my numerous obsessions!

[wykpenguin]

Engraver's script is a difficult script and you're doing really well.

[plistumi]

It sure is hard, but it is very rewarding to look at the pretty letters. Thank you for the feedback and encouragement!

[davidspitzer]

I will be hunting around for smoother paper. This practice paper is probably not the best, but the angled lines have been helpful. I have some Clairefontaine notebooks which I hope to use for practice as well. Has anybody had experience with using a laser printer to print guidelines on paper? Would the bagasse be a good bet?

 

After consciously changing the nib angle, most of the catching problems are gone away. Not all (look at the "g" on writing, hee, hee). Must still keep practicing until I find my sweet spot. Lots to learn: even writing, better letter spacing, maintaining a good angle, getting the "l" and "h" right, etc. So much to learn, so little time! Thank you for the help. This is quite a fascinating addition to my numerous obsessions!

 

This Paper is as smooth as glass, does not feather and is translucent for easy underlay of guides - you can get it at Michaels where they have the Pens and Nibs

[bongomon]

Intention tremor is typically associated with a benign essential tremor, much more common than Parkinson disease. If you have a tremor when you are completely at rest, slowing of your movements, stiff or shuffling walking, imbalance or other similar symptoms, you should check in with a neurologist to look into Parkinson disease.

 

On the other hand, with Parkinson disease patients develop micrographia, small writing, so maybe those small miniscules won't then be so difficult.

[plistumi]

Oh, the (intention) tremor is real, just very minor. Has been present for years. As long as I can continue pushing slides on the microscope and not noticing it, I am fine. (I hate using the stage holder). The shake does show in the writing of very fine lines and gets magnified by holding a sheet of paper vertically.

 

On the other hand, with Parkinson disease patients develop micrographia, small writing, so maybe those small miniscules won't then be so difficult. I guess one can always make a positive out of a negative.

[ukobke]

Ha Ha !!!

 

I decided to learn Copperplate too!!! Two-three months ago too!!!! I am left hand too!!!! I like Gillott's 303 too!! I use the book of Eleanor Winters too!!!!

I tried Noodler's inks too, BUT you should try the correct inks. "Walker's Copperplate", "McCafferry's Penman's Ink" or "Iron Gall Ink". These are really good, specially the first two. Believe me I have tried too many. These will inks will suddenly improve your writing.

 

I asked AntonisZ about my "Parkinson" and he said it will correct over the time and practice. Concerning the upstrokes either you press too hard or the paper and ink are not the right. Try those the advised you.

 

But to be left hand is really hard for Copperplate...

[ObliquelyMe]

I am also another lefty that is attempting copperplate! I also use a straight pen as opposed to the oblique; it's so much easier to get the correct angle. My main issue is also the snagging on the upstrokes and tremor. I've had the tremor for years and find that using a weighted pen really helps. With the dip pen, it's a bit difficult to get the weight as I have a plastic penholder!

[plistumi]

We are a "shaky" bunch aren't we? Ha! I bought some iron gall ink last week. Waiting to receive and try it. Yay!

[Grape Bear]

Bumping this thread as hoping for advice -

 

I am a lefty, side writer and I wanted to learn copperplate, or, barring that, make friends with a flexible nib so I can use a flexy fountain pen.

 

I'm finding it challenging, to say the least, as I am pushing when I should pull and vise versa. I was wondering if there were any videos or resources all the lefties here can point me towards to help me get started. I've bought a guillot 303 and am using a straight holder currently and would so love to learn.

 

Thanks in advance!