On Technical Pens: Rapidograph, etc.

[nigeldun]

I was thinking back and remembering in the 70's that I had a collection of Rapidographs that I used as I use fountain pens now, and so I got one again, a tube-tip of German manufacture, filled it with Herbin ink, (Cafe des Iles)and am enjoying it.

 

I have questions: Anybody else remember/still use these? Is there an archive of info anywhere?

 

Most important, I need advice on ink. My gut is that the Herbin ink is too thin, and it tends to move through the tip too fast, to dry out, then I shake and it comes through too fast, etc. Lack of equilibrium of flow. I know that they were made to use thich black ink that eventually, in my experience, clogged them completely. Besides, I like my different colors, and I like today's inks.

 

Any thoughts out there??

[eric47]

MYU has quite a collection of Rotrings. See here.

Edited March 2, 2010 by eric47

[TheHOINK]

Aloha-he, Nigeldun...

 

In August a full thread started up on this, if I remember correctly by StephDale, here in Writing instruments.

It had the word "Rapidograph" inside the title, so it should be easy to find.

 

And yes, there are still people out there, using them.

I still have a big aount for sale, I once got a big box from a store that was closing with close to 100 Rapido- and isographs.

 

Hope you find it useful.

 

Cordialement

TheHOINK

Edited March 2, 2010 by TheHOINK

[dinomium]

I have around 15 Koh-I-Noor rapidographs and have always used the India Ink in my drafting sets. I do run Mont Blanc blue in my .70 tipped pen that I use for general writing and sketching. I have not had any problems with that ink or the pen leaking (they tend to do that at the END OF A DRAWING )

[TheHOINK]

Sure they do... because pens are sadists, and know we are masochists who always return for more ^_^

 

It is mostly when the picture is PERFECT, and while you are doing your signing on it, they drip when the pen is taken upward again and you are just taking on last, contented look at it, then a small drop is falling down, smiling, in slow motion, while you are screaming "noooo"....

 

Joke put aside, it mostly happens during the last third of a picture, you are right.

 

But MB inks are drier, as far as I can tell.

Noodlers never dried up my Isographs, and they are thick enough to never drip.

 

It is ALWAYS a combination of Pen, Ink and Paper, which makes for the performance, not just a single part.

So, take care of the PIP-Factor while working! ^_0

 

Cordialement

TheHOINK

[dogpoet]

Is this thing about them not working if held vertically true?

[TheHOINK]

It depends in which angle you hold them.

 

I do the best description possible to me, since I do lack the proper english words, excuse me being a european ^_^

 

The mechanism is a tube with a small "wire" or "needle", call it whatever you want inside.

Hanging on this needle is a small weight, so when the pen is held down onto the paper, the weight "closes" the tube, and the "wire" pops out of the tube for about a small percentage of a millimeter, maybe 0.05mm

 

When you put the nib to the paper, the wire is pushed up, so the weight lifts itself and allows air to stream in alongsire the wire, through the tube, up into the ink-reservoir, so ink can leave the pen. As soon as the contact to the paper stops, because the wire is not pushed in any more due to height or angle to the paper, the inkflow is broken and thus stops.

 

This means, you should have an angle to the paper, which allows the wire to be put in.

It is just guessing, but most of the smaller diametres, like 0.1 to 0.35 work fine with a writing anlg elike a normal pen, too, on most papers, like 45°.

But the best, the perfect angle for these pens, who have been developed for architects and for getting constant lines in the main part, you need to hold them 90° to the paper, which is uncormfortable at first, but you get used to it really really fast, especially since the pens weight is pretty much non-existent.

 

Hope that helps a little, dogpoet...

 

Cordialement

TheHOINK

[Monophoto]

I used Rapidograph pens and India ink to take notes when I was in college. I have a rather new one that I use to make annotations on the rebate of photographic negatives.

 

The advantage that I found in using them for note taking is that one peculiar characteristic of these pens is that they must be held in a vertical position. As a result, I found it necessary to slow down the rate at which I wrote - which was a good thing because that also meant that my notes were more legible than they would have been had I used my ordinary handwriting!

 

Two other observations. One is that they do need to be cleaned at a regular interval. I've always taken a more aggressive approach to cleaning them - I completely disassemble them and soak the components overnight in warm water with a little dishwashing detergent.

 

The other observation is that modern Rapidographs don't seem to be a robust as the pens that I used in college 40 years ago. Of course, I'm not as robust as I was then, so perhaps it's all relative. But my current pen has acquired a small crack in the barrel (doesn't have any functional impact), and tends to clog more frequently than the older pens. An obvious difference is that the materials from which they are made are different - more 'plasticky' today than they used to be.

 

I also tried one other technical fountain pen brand (I don't recall which brand) and found that it wasn't nearly as good as Rapidograph.

[JohnS-MI]

I used Rapidograph pens and India ink to take notes when I was in college. I have a rather new one that I use to make annotations on the rebate of photographic negatives.

 

The advantage that I found in using them for note taking is that one peculiar characteristic of these pens is that they must be held in a vertical position. As a result, I found it necessary to slow down the rate at which I wrote - which was a good thing because that also meant that my notes were more legible than they would have been had I used my ordinary handwriting!

 

 

I also did this in college, 48 years ago. It was a love/hate relationship with the Rapidograph. At least my notes were waterproof (very important to me in Boston's damp weather), but it wasn't a very pleasant writing experience (they are intended for drafting).

 

There is no doubt that if I were now put in a similar circumstance, I would use a fountain pen and Noodler's Black. I wish I still had the Esterbrook that got me through high school; I DON'T wish I had the Rapidograph back.

[BillZ]

I used Rapidographs all thru high school in the early '60s. Filled them with "Fount India"..whatever that was at the time. Got away from them after H.S. Wish I still had them. I moved my desk to another room three years ago and cleaned out everthing in the process. I still had the Rs but I couldn't unscrew the nibs(still had the little round plastic wrench with the knurled edges to remove them) so I foolishly tossed them!! Alas!

[nigeldun]

I'm the guy who started the topic and I have -- no surprise -- learned a great deal. Including:

 

-- Tintenkuli ("Ink-worker") is the name of the Rotring, Rapidograph precursor. [big Bucks]

-- Noodler's is a better ink for tube-points that Herbin.

-- They are (still) fun to write with.

-- The writing ones are called stylographs, and while the word stylo is a French word for pen, Kuli is a German word for ballpoint.

 

Where are the stylographs now???

[psfred]

The last stylographic pens intended for ordinary writing I know of, with rounded instead of square cut tubes, were Inkographs produced up to the late 30's or early 40's. It's possible they were made in very small numbers up to the 50's, but I'd be surprised. Mine are either hard rubber or celluloid, which dates them to the 30's most likely. I find the ones I have to be too wide for my writing style, but otherwise not too bad to use once one gets used to the weight thumping up and down in the pen -- it's quite obvious.

 

Peter

[eric47]

Where are the stylographs now???

 

I'm not entirely sure whether they count as stylographs, but here goes.

 

If you look at MYU's article, which I linked earlier, he mentions the swan song of Rotring before being bought by Sanford/Rubbermaid-Newell: the LE 1928. That pen was made for Rotring by Visconti, which is why for instance it's a double-reservoir plunger. That pen included two unscrewable sections -- one with a stylograph tip and one with a regular FP nib.

 

During that same period, Rotring made for Visconti, screw in nib units with stylograph tips. Pens with those tips Visconti refers to as "fountain rollers" in their Museum. They're not the entire section like the Rotring 1928 but just a screw nib unit -- think Pelikan if you're not familar with Viscontis. Once Rotring became part of Sanford/Rubbermaid-Newell...no more of those stylographs tips for Visconti.

 

Visconti put those at least on the Voyager Anniversary and Copernicus. I have some Voyager Anniversary pens, some stylographs nibs/tips as well as regular FP nibs to swap out. Those stylograph tips work fine with FP ink, I used Waterman Florida and Visconti Blue. With those I have to hold the pen a bit more vertically than I usually do with a pen with a FP nib; but I don't have to use it completely vertically. They're a bit forgiving in that regard.

Edited March 3, 2010 by eric47

[bernardo]

I have questions: Anybody else remember/still use these? Is there an archive of info anywhere?

 

Most important, I need advice on ink.

 

I still have three Staedtlers. I use Staedtler ink on them and it works great.

[jgrasty]

I used these pens in the late 70's and early 80's for drafting. I made $3 an hour working for the UK Dept. of Electrical Engineering. I haven't seen one since.

[dogpoet]

It depends in which angle you hold them.

 

I do the best description possible to me, since I do lack the proper english words, excuse me being a european ^_^

 

The mechanism is a tube with a small "wire" or "needle", call it whatever you want inside.

Hanging on this needle is a small weight, so when the pen is held down onto the paper, the weight "closes" the tube, and the "wire" pops out of the tube for about a small percentage of a millimeter, maybe 0.05mm

 

When you put the nib to the paper, the wire is pushed up, so the weight lifts itself and allows air to stream in alongsire the wire, through the tube, up into the ink-reservoir, so ink can leave the pen. As soon as the contact to the paper stops, because the wire is not pushed in any more due to height or angle to the paper, the inkflow is broken and thus stops.

 

This means, you should have an angle to the paper, which allows the wire to be put in.

It is just guessing, but most of the smaller diametres, like 0.1 to 0.35 work fine with a writing anlg elike a normal pen, too, on most papers, like 45°.

But the best, the perfect angle for these pens, who have been developed for architects and for getting constant lines in the main part, you need to hold them 90° to the paper, which is uncormfortable at first, but you get used to it really really fast, especially since the pens weight is pretty much non-existent.

 

Hope that helps a little, dogpoet...

 

Cordialement

TheHOINK

 

That helps a lot. Thank you.

[714louie]

I used these pens in the late 70's and early 80's for drafting. I made $3 an hour working for the UK Dept. of Electrical Engineering. I haven't seen one since.

 

 

i got quite obsessed my these stylos. i own at least 40 of them. i got a bit nutty over the inkograph when i discovered they were made in so many styles and colors. the inkos were primarily used in the 30s for anything but tech drawing, that use came later i believe. my collection ranges from early inkos, tintenkulis and their children the rapidos,also castell 990s, reform refographs, mars 700s all great in there own (w)right. my favorites are the inkographs and the early torpedo shaped kohinoor rapidos. they feel well made and substantial in hand. boo to the modern rapidograph, they look as if they were cut from a continuous piece of cheap tubular white plastic. i must admit the rapidosketch is a nice writer as the rotring isograph if you can find one if you live in the usa. i am currently tracking down an aristo mg1, which is a mini size technical pen. these are all stylo wire in the barrel pen and yes, i've got it bad.

 

may our fingers forever remain stained,

louie

[dexaco]

Rotring made a 'stylograph' type pen in the 1990s, possibly earlier, but I bought mine when I was working in computer audit, so that puts it in the 1992-1995 time slot. The model was called the Altro, and it was available in two tip sizes, effectively medium and fine. I've attached a photograph. The grey pen has the fine tip. These were clear plastic, with the metal tube of the nib running through. The medium points were opaque plastic. They're smooth writers, and with the tip being rounded, easy to use at most angles. They take standard international cartridges, so I assume a standard converter would fit, but don't have one available to try it.

 

Derick

[dogpoet]

Wasn't there a fountain pen altro as well?

[dexaco]

Wasn't there a fountain pen altro as well?

I've got a vague memory of one, now that you mention it. I only have the tubular-nib models.

 

Derick