Parker 61 Repair

[Doc Schids]

Hello.

 

I am interested in having a Parker 61 repaired. The nib is badly damaged. As best I know it has a capillary filling mechanism, and I am thinking of having the capillary mechanism replaced with something more modern (piston vs. cartridge) such that it can be a more reliable pen.

 

A few questions:

1) Is this possible? If so, what would it involve?

2) Does anyone know of a person who can do this well? (Preferable in LA area, but anywhere USA is okay).

3) Should I instead just try to repair the capillary mechanism without replacing it?

4) Should I even bother getting a 61 repaired in the first place?

 

I've included a picture of the pen for reference.

 

Thank you!

 

-Doc Schids

 

[publius]

61s were made with a more conventional filling mechanism — why not just buy one?

[Doc Schids]

  publius said:

61s were made with a more conventional filling mechanism — why not just buy one?

Hi. Thanks for the reply.

 

The reason for the repair is more sentimental than anything else. It was my father's pen, and I was hoping to have it repaired for him. I didn't know that 61s were made with the more conventional mechanism. Were they interchangeable with the capillary mechanism?

 

-Doc Schids

[OldGriz]

  Doc Schids said:

  publius said:

61s were made with a more conventional filling mechanism — why not just buy one?

Hi. Thanks for the reply.

 

The reason for the repair is more sentimental than anything else. It was my father's pen, and I was hoping to have it repaired for him. I didn't know that 61s were made with the more conventional mechanism. Were they interchangeable with the capillary mechanism?

 

-Doc Schids

 

The nib can be fixed by John Mottishaw on the West Coast or by Richard Binder on the East Coast.

As for changing the filling system to something else... no luck there...

The hood appears to be warped and that will also cause some problems in the repair and should be replaced...

The fact that the pen appears to be a Rage Red makes replacing the hood a bit more difficult also... this is not a common color

[OldGriz]

  Doc Schids said:

  publius said:

61s were made with a more conventional filling mechanism — why not just buy one?

Hi. Thanks for the reply.

 

The reason for the repair is more sentimental than anything else. It was my father's pen, and I was hoping to have it repaired for him. I didn't know that 61s were made with the more conventional mechanism. Were they interchangeable with the capillary mechanism?

 

-Doc Schids

 

No the cartridge/converter fill version of the 61 is not interchangeable with the capillary filler system...

[Kelly G]

I'm curious, why do you want to replace the capillary filling system?

[Doc Schids]

  Kelly G said:

I'm curious, why do you want to replace the capillary filling system?

Hi. Thanks for your reply.

 

Well, I heard that the capillary filler is notorious for clogging, and that many of the 61s don't work well because of it. I some of the research I did online, though, it seems like it might not be too tough to clean it out. I tried flushing it out today, and it seemed to work okay.

 

The other astute reader noticed that the hood of the pen was warped, which is going to probably make repair near impossible. I'm rethinking having the filler replaced, but now it seams like fixing the rest of the pen (nib, hood, missing ornamental arrow) might be too difficult.

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

-Doc Schids

[framebaer]

  OldGriz said:

No the cartridge/converter fill version of the 61 is not interchangeable with the capillary filler system...

 

Actually this is not exactly correct. Someone made a special fitting several years ago to enable the conversion. Richard Binder has the parts and can do the job. He can also replace the capillary unit or perform any other 61 fixes.

 

[richardandtracy]

Replacing the nib is going to be really difficult because of that distorted shell. The P61 has a relatively small feed hole, and the nib cannot be pulled straight out, as the cleats holding the nib are a larger diameter than the hole. As a result, it neads to come out the back. Which means the collector will have to come out. And it'll be jammed in due to that distorted shell. Oh dear.

 

I'd say the repair will be very risky and the chance of needing significant spares is high.

 

If you want to keep this sentimental pen, I'd say keep it, but don't repair it. Replace the entire pen, they are available, and Rage Red ones come up on E-Bay fairly regularly.

 

Sorry for that advice, but I think there may be too many problems. I had a Burgundy P61 my late mother gave me that I wanted to keep, but it was too far gone. However, I was able to salvage the nib, and that's now in a P51 body.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

 

[AndyH]

I favor the "grandfather's axe" method of restoration in a case like this.

 

I still use my grandfather's axe, although it's had two new heads and five new handles.

 

In your case, I would try to find a replacement hood in a parts pen, but be prepared for a long quest. Everything else should be fairly easily restored. Ron Zorn is undertaking a similar project on a Sheaffer Tuckaway for me right now. Sometimes the sentimental value is worth it, other times it's best to put it on the shelf and admire it rather than writing with it.

[rsilver000]

Actually not just a hood, but a nib also. This will add up to some real money and now the pen after restoration will only be about 1/2 of what he used.

 

Just keep for its sentimental value and buy a restored 61 to actually use and think of him.

 

Cheers,

Rob

[HLeopold]

  OldGriz said:

  Doc Schids said:

  publius said:

61s were made with a more conventional filling mechanism — why not just buy one?

Hi. Thanks for the reply.

 

The reason for the repair is more sentimental than anything else. It was my father's pen, and I was hoping to have it repaired for him. I didn't know that 61s were made with the more conventional mechanism. Were they interchangeable with the capillary mechanism?

 

-Doc Schids

 

The nib can be fixed by John Mottishaw on the West Coast or by Richard Binder on the East Coast.

As for changing the filling system to something else... no luck there...

The hood appears to be warped and that will also cause some problems in the repair and should be replaced...

The fact that the pen appears to be a Rage Red makes replacing the hood a bit more difficult also... this is not a common color

 

Griz, I have wondered about something for some time and maybe you can give me an answer, or at least speculate a bit: would it be possible to make a mandrale (?) to fit inside a 51 or 61 pen's hood which could be warmed carefully to a preset temperature for reforming the hood? At least for some types of plastics it would seem to be a possibility. (Sort of like it done for metal caps that have dings.) I really don't know what intrusions might be in the way inside of the hood, but would such an idea be usable?

 

After all, there are a lot of warped pens out there, and for some, such as a hard to find color such as this rage red Parker, it seems to me it might work.

[richardandtracy]

  HLeopold said:

Griz, I have wondered about something for some time and maybe you can give me an answer, or at least speculate a bit: would it be possible to make a mandrale (?) to fit inside a 51 or 61 pen's hood which could be warmed carefully to a preset temperature for reforming the hood? At least for some types of plastics it would seem to be a possibility. (Sort of like it done for metal caps that have dings.) I really don't know what intrusions might be in the way inside of the hood, but would such an idea be usable?

 

After all, there are a lot of warped pens out there, and for some, such as a hard to find color such as this rage red Parker, it seems to me it might work.

There are several problems with this as far as I can see.

1. The plastic micro-cracks like crazy without external help. This sort of work will only make things worse.
2. The P61 plastic seems to shrink rapidly when it gets hot.
3. When the plastic gets hot enough to be softened the surface crazes (had this with my P65 which uses the same plastic).
4. The inside of the hood is moulded so there is no need for it to be rotationally symmetrical (and it isn't near the nib), so you'd have to get the mandrel in the right position and orientation before warming, counter the shrinkage, then remove it. I think you'd need 5 hands.

I honestly think some bright spark needs to come up with an injection moulding tool for the hood so that new ones can be made from acrylic.

(Oh no. Me & my big mouth. I can think of the next 'suggestion'.)

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

 

[HLeopold]

  richardandtracy said:

  HLeopold said:

Griz, I have wondered about something for some time and maybe you can give me an answer, or at least speculate a bit: would it be possible to make a mandrale (?) to fit inside a 51 or 61 pen's hood which could be warmed carefully to a preset temperature for reforming the hood? At least for some types of plastics it would seem to be a possibility. (Sort of like it done for metal caps that have dings.) I really don't know what intrusions might be in the way inside of the hood, but would such an idea be usable?

 

After all, there are a lot of warped pens out there, and for some, such as a hard to find color such as this rage red Parker, it seems to me it might work.

There are several problems with this as far as I can see.

1. The plastic micro-cracks like crazy without external help. This sort of work will only make things worse.
2. The P61 plastic seems to shrink rapidly when it gets hot.
3. When the plastic gets hot enough to be softened the surface crazes (had this with my P65 which uses the same plastic).
4. The inside of the hood is moulded so there is no need for it to be rotationally symmetrical (and it isn't near the nib), so you'd have to get the mandrel in the right position and orientation before warming, counter the shrinkage, then remove it. I think you'd need 5 hands.

I honestly think some bright spark needs to come up with an injection moulding tool for the hood so that new ones can be made from acrylic.

(Oh no. Me & my big mouth. I can think of the next 'suggestion'.)

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

 

I see, thanks for the info.

 

As for making the proper tooling, I would think that would not be so hard to do, there are plenty of examples around to get the proper specs from, there are lots of injection moulding companies around. I would think that there are quite a few folks with the knowledge and ability to do something like this on a small scale. Heck, didn't you point out to Francis this week that there was a way to injection mould the ink windows inside his new pens instead of drilling and screwing/glueing them into the hard rubber barrels of the Conid pen? I would expect that the hardest part would be getting the colors right so the new part would match closely the originals. It isn't like we are trying to make steel investment castings weighing several pounds or tons. Each part would certainly be more costly than the originals, but with the originals being 40+ years old and getting sort of scarce (and old, brittle and warped...) it might well be worth it to someone to set up a table-top "factory" and crank out a few dozen now and then.

 

It isn't like it would be the first time that something like this has been done, as I recall Thompson Pens did similar with Parker clips on his custom Big Red models when he ran out of the originals, had a jeweler make up solid 14K versions for him. Molten gold is a lot harder to deal with than molten acrylic.

 

I did a simple set up years ago making up injected moulded parts out of, I believe, Lexan (Lexon, however you spell it), I only needed a few odd parts so carved the moulds out of wood and dental plaster, used an old car jack for the pressure source, for the heat I used an old hot plate, plus some inch and a half pipe for the melting/pressure cylinder. Took me a couple of evenings to get the beast set up, plus a couple more to fine tune it to get the temperatures right for proper melting (without it catching fire) and to find out how much pressure to use to get complete filling of the mould, remaking a few molds so I could get the parts out in one piece. It actually did the job I needed done, if I had needed to make a lot more of the parts I would have made use of steel or aluminum moulds and built the melter/injector to survive the heavier use, but it would have been pretty much still a hobby set up, not taking all that long to get up and running.

 

I have seen a lot of amateur telescope makers do far more complex work making cast steel or aluminum telescope and mount parts for their telescopes, I have even helped a couple in some of these undertakings. Hell, if a person can safely cast their own bullets, or soldiers, out of lead without setting their house on fire they have most of the needed abilities to do such a job. Working with thermoplastics is not rocket science, and certainly not when doing it on a small scale. My biggest complaint these days is that I don't have a garage or basement workshop to work on projects anymore, of course these days I don't beadblast everything in the building with BBs from a malfunctioning air-powered Gattling gun, including myself AND a friends wife's brand new washer and dryer. (Always test your model air-powered Gattling with no more than a handful of BBs, not a whole gallon bucket of them. His wife was NOT amused! At least we tested in the basement, not in his garage with his new car near.)

[richardandtracy]

  HLeopold said:

...As for making the proper tooling, I would think that would not be so hard to do, there are plenty of examples around to get the proper specs from, there are lots of injection moulding companies around. I would think that there are quite a few folks with the knowledge and ability to do something like this on a small scale. Heck, didn't you point out to Francis this week that there was a way to injection mould the ink windows inside his new pens instead of drilling and screwing/glueing them into the hard rubber barrels of the Conid pen? I would expect that the hardest part would be getting the colors right so the new part would match closely the originals. It isn't like we are trying to make steel investment castings weighing several pounds or tons. Each part would certainly be more costly than the originals, but with the originals being 40+ years old and getting sort of scarce (and old, brittle and warped...) it might well be worth it to someone to set up a table-top "factory" and crank out a few dozen now and then.

 

It isn't like it would be the first time that something like this has been done, as I recall Thompson Pens did similar with Parker clips on his custom Big Red models when he ran out of the originals, had a jeweler make up solid 14K versions for him. Molten gold is a lot harder to deal with than molten acrylic.

 

I did a simple set up years ago making up injected moulded parts out of, I believe, Lexan (Lexon, however you spell it), I only needed a few odd parts so carved the moulds out of wood and dental plaster, used an old car jack for the pressure source, for the heat I used an old hot plate, plus some inch and a half pipe for the melting/pressure cylinder. Took me a couple of evenings to get the beast set up, plus a couple more to fine tune it to get the temperatures right for proper melting (without it catching fire) and to find out how much pressure to use to get complete filling of the mould, remaking a few molds so I could get the parts out in one piece. It actually did the job I needed done, if I had needed to make a lot more of the parts I would have made use of steel or aluminum moulds and built the melter/injector to survive the heavier use, but it would have been pretty much still a hobby set up, not taking all that long to get up and running.

 

I have seen a lot of amateur telescope makers do far more complex work making cast steel or aluminum telescope and mount parts for their telescopes, I have even helped a couple in some of these undertakings. Hell, if a person can safely cast their own bullets, or soldiers, out of lead without setting their house on fire they have most of the needed abilities to do such a job. Working with thermoplastics is not rocket science, and certainly not when doing it on a small scale. My biggest complaint these days is that I don't have a garage or basement workshop to work on projects anymore, of course these days I don't beadblast everything in the building with BBs from a malfunctioning air-powered Gattling gun, including myself AND a friends wife's brand new washer and dryer. (Always test your model air-powered Gattling with no more than a handful of BBs, not a whole gallon bucket of them. His wife was NOT amused! At least we tested in the basement, not in his garage with his new car near.)

:roflmho: Loved the gun story....

 

I have a small foundry for melting aluminium that I pull out every now & again (see http://www.geocities.com/richardandtracy/a...les/foundry.htm ). My chief concern was that people would start pointing at me because I suggested that injection moulding machine.

 

I will have a look at it. Not soon, but within a month or two. I have to confess that this has been on my 'To do' list for a while.

Black sections (the most common) should be moderately easy to colour match (famous last words...!).

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

 

 

[HLeopold]

  richardandtracy said:

(snip for bandwidth.)

 

:roflmho: Loved the gun story....

 

I have a small foundry for melting aluminium that I pull out every now & again (see http://www.geocities.com/richardandtracy/a...les/foundry.htm ). My chief concern was that people would start pointing at me because I suggested that injection moulding machine.

 

I will have a look at it. Not soon, but within a month or two. I have to confess that this has been on my 'To do' list for a while.

Black sections (the most common) should be moderately easy to colour match (famous last words...!).

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

 

It was an "interesting" experience at the time, it is much funnier these days than it was at the time.

 

I grabbed the link and will read it more closely this week end, looks pretty interesting from the quick read through I did.

 

Yep, that was why I pointed out that it was you that brought it up. ;-{)

 

If you do get around to it let us know how it goes, I am very interested in how well it goes. I expect that fine-tuning the moulds may be a pretty finicky job, but once dialed in it should go well. I still may try it out myself, some day, but not until I have some place that I can work, smoking plastic is not healthy in an apartment, tends to get the management quite annoyed. Since I like our manager I would like to stay on her good side.

[Possum Hill]

  HLeopold said:

I have seen a lot of amateur telescope makers do far more complex work making cast steel or aluminum telescope and mount parts for their telescopes, I have even helped a couple in some of these undertakings. Hell, if a person can safely cast their own bullets, or soldiers, out of lead without setting their house on fire they have most of the needed abilities to do such a job. Working with thermoplastics is not rocket science, and certainly not when doing it on a small scale. My biggest complaint these days is that I don't have a garage or basement workshop to work on projects anymore, of course these days I don't beadblast everything in the building with BBs from a malfunctioning air-powered Gattling gun, including myself AND a friends wife's brand new washer and dryer. (Always test your model air-powered Gattling with no more than a handful of BBs, not a whole gallon bucket of them. His wife was NOT amused! At least we tested in the basement, not in his garage with his new car near.)

You could put your eye out.